Merged DDWFTTW in a “Real” Wind

[humber]

Search for Humber cow powered cart but first get ready for some real belly laughs. Don't do it right after a big meal.

 

[jduffy77]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21915&stc=1&d=1303500133[/qimg]

I know I have written the same thing many times but I am fascinated by how often Humber gets things right my mistake and/or posts things which refute his own position. This latest graphic would actually be the beginning of understanding for most people.

 

[ThinAirDesigns]

But don’t let that stop you from making comments that could be read as suggesting my equipment was totally useless (If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas?).

And Ynot wants you to believe he doesn't come off with an insulting manner. ROFLAO!

JB

 

[windgrins]

Thanks Ynot

The “magic marble” video I posted wasn’t on a powered turntable but the relatively small amount it was slowing had very little effect on the action of the marble (not discernable). When I repeated the tests with a constant speed turntable the result was the virtually same. The marble had quite a bumpy surface as you can hear on the video. When I used a smooth and heavier large ball bearing the effect was even more impressive and the marble could “hover“ for quite some time. It could never keep exactly the same position of course and always gradually lost ground to the turntable. The only way it could possibly gain against the turntable was to push it toward the centre of the turntable where the surface was moving more slowly. I didn’t post any videos of this because I went overseas and when I returned I spent all my time building the cart. Tests with the cart proved conclusively (to me at least) that that it wasn’t storing energy in any way as I previously thought it might be. In other words what the marble does has nothing to do with what the cart does. The Coriolis effects where quite entertaining and the video seems to have had more views than the cart ones.

Ynot, Thanks for the post. I missed it the first time through and just caught by rereading in the past.

Are you saying that once the ball bearing was at speed, that it invariably started to match the speed of the treadmill as would be expected?

Did the bearing exhibit larger and larger circles generally or did it maintain the same tight orbit over a long period (longer than say 5-10 secs)?

Thanks,

WindGrins

 

[humber]

I know I have written the same thing many times but I am fascinated by how often Humber gets things right my mistake and/or posts things which refute his own position. This latest graphic would actually be the beginning of understanding for most people.

Like the TM belt going the wrong way.
If one thing travels faster forwards than another, does not mean the other goes backwards.
TAD were told that by many.

 

[humber]

Ynot, Thanks for the post. I missed it the first time through and just caught by rereading in the past.

Are you saying that once the ball bearing was at speed, that it invariably started to match the speed of the treadmill as would be expected?

Did the bearing exhibit larger and larger circles generally or did it maintain the same tight orbit over a long period (longer than say 5-10 secs)?

Thanks,

WindGrins

Oh. Almost at windspeed for free. What magic could make it crawl a bit forwards?
The trail data will not be talked away.

 

[ThinAirDesigns]

The trail data will not be talked away.

Oh, yes you will.

JB

 

[jduffy77]

Like the TM belt going the wrong way.
If one thing travels faster forwards than another, does not mean the other goes backwards.

Of course it does from the faster things FOR. Humber, even RP is laughing at you now.

 

[Michael C]

Ynot, Thanks for the post. I missed it the first time through and just caught by rereading in the past.

Are you saying that once the ball bearing was at speed, that it invariably started to match the speed of the treadmill as would be expected?

Did the bearing exhibit larger and larger circles generally or did it maintain the same tight orbit over a long period (longer than say 5-10 secs)?

Thanks,

WindGrins

The fascinating mechanics of a sphere rolling on a turntable have been well studied.
Here's an analysis.
Here are some videos

 

[humber]

Oh, yes you will.

JB

You hope, but it won't be up to you. Some would rather boil in oil that admit
the cart does not work.

 

[humber]

The fascinating mechanics of a sphere rolling on a turntable have been well studied.
Here's an analysis.
Here are some videos

And if the CoG is not the axis, it can roll in place on a linear belt, just like an orange can, on a conveyor belt.
Making it move forwards is a trivial task for an engineer.

The analysis given above (top left) for a ball on a horizontal rotating table is purely Cartesian and is easier for those less skilled in vector manipulation to follow. It makes use of where QP is the total moment of external forces about a moving point P, hP is the moment of momentum about the moving point P, is the velocity of point P and p is the linear momentum of the ball. A feature of a rolling ball is that the centre of mass G is always directly above the contact point P so that where is the velocity of the centre of mass. So since . Therefore, since QP = 0 (all forces pass through P) we have or hP is constant ie moment of momentum is conserved about the moving point P. This is beautiful.

The cart has no linear momentum, except for when it moves a bit "above WS" where "WS" is when the wheels have pure rotation (spinning)

 

[mender]

Some would rather boil in oil than admit the cart does not work.

Not me; I'd much rather say the cart doesn't work than boil in oil.
But saying that would be as much a lie as just about every one of your posts.

 

[humber]

Not me; I'd much rather say the cart doesn't work than boil in oil.
But saying that would be as much a lie as just about every one of your posts.

Have you tried zinc?

 

[humber]

Oh, yes you will.

JB

And how is the airport belt test coming along ?
Readily available locally, you said.

 

[windgrins]

Not attempting to be insulting.

Some people (including Spork & Co) think my equipment actually already has done some good. But don’t let that stop you from making comments that could be read as suggesting my equipment was totally useless (If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas?).

My house, office and workshop were totally trashed in recent Christchurch earthquakes and I have totally relocated to a different area of New Zealand. In the process of moving I dumped a full truckload of inventions and experiments I’ve done over the years. Included in this was the turntable equipment so I no longer have it to do experiments even if I wanted to. As I said, what the marble did has nothing to do with what the cart does so the subject is a bit of a derail on this thread.

There is a good description of what the marble is doing below the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc88SrMG5fA

If you’re too to look lazy here it is . . .

A demo of Coriolis force. Toward the outside edge the ball is spinning at a high RPM. As it slows down it "falls" down a slight incline toward the center where it can maintain its position at a slower RPM. If the ball is pushed toward the center it will be rolling faster than it needs to to maintain position and advance forward where it will ride toward the outside edge and retreat only to fall back towards the center and repeat. That's why it precesses around a point.

YNot, Thanks for the feedback. I had no intention of being insulting. As stated in earlier posts, your demo machines were great. Since I had made the comment to you about the questionably of the comment about "just testing us", I thought you might be annoyed and not want to play.

I really appreciate the info and wanted to learn about this phenomenon.

PS-you can tell by this response it really is easy to pass along "slights" that were never intended. I truly was impressed by what you created.

Thanks,

WindGrins

 

[windgrins]

Thanks Michael C!

The fascinating mechanics of a sphere rolling on a turntable have been well studied.
Here's an analysis.
Here are some videos

Michael C,

Thanks and excellent!

As usual your illustrations are superb! It will take me a while to digest the math.

WindGrins

 

[ynot]

YNot, Thanks for the feedback. I had no intention of being insulting. As stated in earlier posts, your demo machines were great. Since I had made the comment to you about the questionably of the comment about "just testing us", I thought you might be annoyed and not want to play.

I really appreciate the info and wanted to learn about this phenomenon.

PS-you can tell by this response it really is easy to pass along "slights" that were never intended. I truly was impressed by what you created.

Thanks,

WindGrins

Thanks and sorry for my over-reaction. Perhaps my recent interactions with Spork & Co have caused me to “get up with fleas“.

 

[ThinAirDesigns]

Thanks and sorry for my over-reaction. Perhaps my recent interactions with Spork & Co have caused me to “get up with fleas“.

An apology isn't really an apology when you attempt to lay the blame on others.

Also, the record of the thread shows that I was saying nothing but nice things about you until you dropped in spewing, so we all know how the fleas got here.

JB

 

[windgrins]

Sorry about that!

Thanks and sorry for my over-reaction.

Apology Easily and gladly accepted. Please accept mine!

 

[humber]

An apology isn't really an apology when you attempt to lay the blame on others.

The data logger kept running all the time you weren't "really" testing.
And the airport test. That has been mentioned many times. What is the excuse
this time?