Merged DDWFTTW in a “Real” Wind

[jadebox]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21907&stc=1&d=1303486337

That's funny .... humber tried to say my explanation of the cars colliding as seen from two different observers was wrong because the values for the speeds I used where all positive (or zero). He insisted that some should have been negative.

Later, he posts the above ......

"Speeds have no direction; they can have only positive (or zero) values."



-- Roger

 

[jadebox]

Something like this: Vb = Vw - e-t/tau
The balloon will rise exponentially to Vw (but not reach it) and the time t will be related to the acceleration. That is because the driving force falls as the balloon approaches WS, so the acceleration will fall too.

And if I want to walk across the room, I first have to walk half the distance. Then, I have to travel half the remaining distance, and so on. Therefore, I can never make it to the other side of the room.

BTW, the balloon will quickly reach the speed of the wind and then travel at wind speed.

-- Roger

 

[Llyricist]

Oh, I understood it all right. The pre-match excuse that prevents the match.
The "keen experimenters" have lost their enthusiasm for "real science" over theory.
One has to ask why the belt has a minimum speed, that does not bother the real cart.

No, one doesn't. The air has to move at a high enough speed relative to the cart to generate the necessary drag to overcome the static rolling resistance of the cart. That is true whether the air is moving over "stationary" ground or the ground is moving under "stationary" air.

The "real" cart needs a minimum wind speed, which happens to be the same speed as the minimum belt speed for the same cart on a moving walkway in "still" air.

It's because the latch mechanism will fail when the belt speed becomes too low.

I wonder if humber or hyev will ever get around to describing this "latch mechanism".

 

[humber]

Humber slipped up and became correct (sort of!)

For a stationary (what would otherwise be an NB) sphere sitting on top of a ladder in a vacuum chamber, It does indeed have Potential Energy.

This is a little far away from the question at hand with a NB Balloon in an equivalent medium.

I use this example to illustrate to Spork, the potential benefit to some of the posters, of utilizing one of Humber's fundamentally wrong answers to illustrate the exact opposite to what is stated as the correct understanding.

Regards,

WindGrins

It has PE without the vacuum. The mass is still there, bouyant or not. The difference lies only in the force that keeps it at the given height.
And the said gradient around the balloon is proof of that energy.

 

[CORed]

Oh, I understood it all right. The pre-match excuse that prevents the match.
The "keen experimenters" have lost their enthusiasm for "real science" over theory.
One has to ask why the belt has a minimum speed, that does not bother the real cart. It's because the latch mechanism will fail when the belt speed becomes too low.

Latch mechanism? Pure delusion.

ETA: It appears that humber has changed his explanation of the cart on the treadmill. Now instead the wheels slipping and the propeller storing kinetic energy, The propeller is producing thrust (correct) and the cart is "latched" to the treadmill, whatever the heck that is supposed to mean. Humber doesn't realize it, and will vehemently deny it, but he has already admitted that the cart is capbable of traveling at wind speed.

 

[humber]

That's funny .... humber tried to say my explanation of the cars colliding as seen from two different observers was wrong because the values for the speeds I used where all positive (or zero). He insisted that some should have been negative.

Later, he posts the above ......

"Speeds have no direction; they can have only positive (or zero) values."

That's right so you are twice wrong. Prof Rhett has told you in a clear and concise manner, that two cars at colliding at 50mph is not the same as one hitting a wall at 100mph. That makes you dead wrong. Do you understand what that means? The word "wrong", in this context?

There is no "closing velocity" that is different from the relative velocity and has nothing to do with how far apart they are.

The equation is simple. As I said, a differential velocity, from two opposing velocities.
Car_1 = 60mph
Car_2 = -60mph

Vc = ( Pb- Pa) = (60mph - (-60mph) = 120mph.

Learn to accept that the TM is a trinket and the trials a deliberate fraud.

And if I want to walk across the room, I first have to walk half the distance. Then, I have to travel half the remaining distance, and so on. Therefore, I can never make it to the other side of the room.

BTW, the balloon will quickly reach the speed of the wind and then travel at wind speed.

-- Roger

And that will work for those who still hang on to Zeno, and have no idea about calculus.

 

[humber]

Latch mechanism? Pure delusion.

Pure delight.
The cart is an Atwood's machine, with a latching mechanism.

 

[CORed]

That's right so you are twice wrong. Prof Rhett has told you in a clear and concise manner, that two cars at colliding at 50mph is not the same as one hitting a wall at 100mph. That makes you dead wrong. Do you understand what that means? The word "wrong", in this context?

There is no "closing velocity" that is different from the relative velocity and has nothing to do with how far apart they are.

The equation is simple. As I said, a differential velocity, from two opposing velocities.
Car_1 = 60mph
Car_2 = -60mph

Vc = ( Pb- Pa) = (60mph - (-60mph) = 120mph.

Learn to accept that the TM is a trinket and the trials a deliberate fraud.




And that will work for those who still hang on to Zeno, and have no idea about calculus.

It appears that the one hanging on to Zeno is you.

 

[CORed]

Pure delight.
The cart is an Atwood's machine, with a latching mechanism.

Had to look that one up. Predictably, it bears no relation whatsoever to the cart, and the delusional latching mechanism is unexplained.

Now I'm sure humber will tell me that I just don't know enough to understand the relationship.

 

[humber]

Had to look that one up. Predictably, it bears no relation whatsoever to the cart, and the delusional latching mechanism is unexplained.

Now I'm sure humber will tell me that I just don't know enough to understand the relationship.

I thought you may, and saw the pulleys and ropes, and couldn't see the connection. When I described how I thought the TM worked to Harold,
he replied "Of course! An Atwood's machine"


But apart from that, which is how it balances on the belt to amaze the gullible, the transform is totally wrong.

 

[CORed]

I thought you may, and saw the pulleys and ropes, and couldn't see the connection. When I described how I thought the TM worked to Harold,

There's your problem!

I
he replied "Of course! An Atwood's machine"


But apart from that, which is how it balances on the belt to amaze the gullible, the transform is totally wrong.


[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21911&stc=1&d=1303496133[/qimg]

You don't get frames of reference. We've known that for two years.

 

[humber]

There's your problem!


You don't get frames of reference. We've known that for two years.

 

[windgrins]

Looking for some fun!

I'm certainly tired of bothering with Humber. Does anybody out there have any interesting thing to discuss?

If not, I'll check back in tomorrow.

I'm interested to hear when he reduces the cart record run data, what he thinks.

WindGrins

 

[jduffy77]

Yes, but remember we've seen pictures of the cart El Jefe and most of the carteers assured us would never be built. Some great sarcasm by spork as I recall, amidst a choir of hecklers. And yet, the cow which is not a hat we'd seen so often, was right there; proof this was Humber's cart. The one that would never exist. After so much time. Now a repeat? I also smell the fear.

I have asked before and you ignored it but I guess its time to ask again, would you like to try and make some money from your sense of smell? We know you are not adverse to wagering as you have mentioned your prior bet 100 times or so. I put forth a few ideas regarding the mechanism for escrow and settlement in my last offer to you but I will consider anything. I am willing to bet as much or as little as you want.

 

[humber]

I'm certainly tired of bothering with Humber. Does anybody out there have any interesting thing to discuss?

If not, I'll check back in tomorrow.

I'm interested to hear when he reduces the cart record run data, what he thinks.

WindGrins

 

[jduffy77]

I'm interested to hear when he reduces the cart record run data, what he thinks.

Actually Humber is not capable of understanding the data from NALSA, unfortunately. I wish that he could as I am sure it would be good for some laughs.

 

[windgrins]

RP, I'm not understanding your point here!

Yes, but remember we've seen pictures of the cart El Jefe and most of the carteers assured us would never be built. Some great sarcasm by spork as I recall, amidst a choir of hecklers. And yet, the cow which is not a hat we'd seen so often, was right there; proof this was Humber's cart. The one that would never exist. After so much time. Now a repeat? I also smell the fear.

RP,

I never understood your comment here. The only cart I've seen that Humber proposed was the picture of the "Top Secret" cart which he posted to me.

Am I missing something with respect to your comment?

WindGrins

 

[jduffy77]

RP,

I never understood your comment here. The only cart I've seen that Humber proposed was the picture of the "Top Secret" cart which he posted to me.

Am I missing something with respect to your comment?

WindGrins

Search for Humber cow powered cart but first get ready for some real belly laughs. Don't do it right after a big meal.

 

[ynot]

We may have a tough time convincing Ynot to re-shoot the video under steady state conditions but I'm not above asking him as I'm really lazy!
Ynot. What do you think if you are out there? An opportunity to do some good with your equipment. Let us know.

Some people (including Spork & Co) think my equipment actually already has done some good. But don’t let that stop you from making comments that could be read as suggesting my equipment was totally useless (If you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas?).

My house, office and workshop were totally trashed in recent Christchurch earthquakes and I have totally relocated to a different area of New Zealand. In the process of moving I dumped a full truckload of inventions and experiments I’ve done over the years. Included in this was the turntable equipment so I no longer have it to do experiments even if I wanted to. As I said, what the marble did has nothing to do with what the cart does so the subject is a bit of a derail on this thread.

There is a good description of what the marble is doing below the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc88SrMG5fA

If you’re too to look lazy here it is . . .

A demo of Coriolis force. Toward the outside edge the ball is spinning at a high RPM. As it slows down it "falls" down a slight incline toward the center where it can maintain its position at a slower RPM. If the ball is pushed toward the center it will be rolling faster than it needs to to maintain position and advance forward where it will ride toward the outside edge and retreat only to fall back towards the center and repeat. That's why it precesses around a point.

 

[Dr. Keith]

And if I want to walk across the room, I first have to walk half the distance. Then, I have to travel half the remaining distance, and so on. Therefore, I can never make it to the other side of the room.

BTW, the balloon will quickly reach the speed of the wind and then travel at wind speed.

-- Roger

I really think his reasoning is equivalent to what you have posted above. But, he won't discuss it with me. Every time I ask him about it he points back to spork not being involved in the discussion, or not really being an aero phd. Whatever, windgrins is going to have to find someone else to pick up that baton.