Crop circle debunking help needed

[Hitch]

Maybe the Aliens arrived and transmitted a perfectly sensible message in radio frequencies that we missed. Coincidentally some prankster made a crop circle they saw and assumed it was a response. It made no sense, but in a desperate attempt to communicate they made their own. Since then terrestrial circle makers have been getting ever more complex to try to outdo what they think are other terrestrial circle makers, and the Aliens think they're starting to get a handle on the Earthly language of crop circles.

Kind of like:


... or maybe there are just no Aliens in this equation.

 

[Akhenaten]

Ooo, I know!

Best idea ever! I'm heading over to FM right now.

 

[Wolrab]

If they imprinted "1-3-3-2-2-1-1-1-8-5" on the Moon I might start believing.

In the power of marketing at least.

We know we would be dealing with a young race if they printed "2318008".

 

[Stray Cat]

Best idea ever! I'm heading over to FM right now.

​

Pig Crop Circle Story here

Back on topic

 

[The Norseman]

But even though we humans can communicate quickly, we still draw paintings, build sculptures, make documentaries, and compose music.

Evidence, please?

We know we would be dealing with a young race if they printed "2318008".

Or an idiotic, simpering race if they printed "90210".

 

[Stray Cat]

Evidence, please?

Evidence of humans communicating quickly?

Let me get back to you on that one in a few hours.

 

[The Norseman]

Evidence of humans communicating quickly?

Let me get back to you on that one in a few hours.

No, no, no. I need you to write a documentary of you painting a picture of you making a sculpture while listening to the music you wrote about the whole process.

Anything less and I will call shenanigans.

 

[chuck4842]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...circle-ever-discovered-in-British-fields.html

This is one example of a circle that guys like "Doug and Dave" can't duplicate. Theres alot more than "pigs" and simple circles to some of these. I've never seen a group of such disinterested , yet obviously interested enough to find any hint of manmade crops evidence. I feel sometimes I'm debating the Robertson Panel. There's radiation in some of these crop circles, bent elongated nodes, blown out, from the inside is the description of most investigators, like have been microwaved. Its not a sensable statement for one to find a counterfeit and declare all to be.

 

[23_Tauri]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...circle-ever-discovered-in-British-fields.html

This is one example of a circle that guys like "Doug and Dave" can't duplicate. Theres alot more than "pigs" and simple circles to some of these. I've never seen a group of such disinterested , yet obviously interested enough to find any hint of manmade crops evidence. I feel sometimes I'm debating the Robertson Panel.

Let's not focus on Doug and Dave, because those two old gentlemen stopped making simple circles years ago. (Indeed, one of them has passed away, can't remember which one). There are plenty of other artists who are capable of tying some rope to some string, taking measurements and flattening crop in a field. You do not need names and addresses in order to know that this is humanly possible.

Also, there is nothing in the pi crop circle in terms of maths that humans were not aware of prior to the appearance of the circle. We all know what pi is and can calculate to a silly amount of decimal places. All it takes is a creative mind to come up with a way of representing that number as a shape, how to measure out that shape on a two dimensional surface and then started stomping down crop.

No crop circle has ever given us a mathematical principle or other titbit of information of which mankind was not previous aware.

There's radiation in some of these crop circles, bent elongated nodes, blown out, from the inside is the description of most investigators, like have been microwaved. Its not a sensable statement for one to find a counterfeit and declare all to be.

OH RLY?

So you are absolutely sure that those features you list aren't present in man-made crop circles or natural flattened crop (such as wind lodging)?

 

[Pup]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...circle-ever-discovered-in-British-fields.html

This is one example of a circle that guys like "Doug and Dave" can't duplicate. Theres alot more than "pigs" and simple circles to some of these.

Why couldn't this circle be duplicated by humans? It seems pretty straight-forward and geometric.

Strictly speaking, though, the article is wrong. If the circle shows 3.141592654, then it shows pi rounded to 10 digits, following the earthling convention of rounding 5 upward. If it shows "the values of the first 10 digits in the value of pi" then the final digit should be a 3 rather than a 4.

One person quoted in the article says that "The tenth digit has even been correctly rounded up." As far as I know, there's no intergalactic rule about the "correct" way to round 5, so the aliens were coincidentally following a common earthling convention. Or were humans just doing what humans do.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

This is one example of a circle that guys like "Doug and Dave" can't duplicate.

http://circlemakers.org/exhibit_a.html

Examples of some complex circles they've made:
http://circlemakers.org/totc2006.html

I believe the QI crop circle has been mentioned earlier -- these guys made it!
http://circlemakers.org/qi.html

This one goes into detail as to how the circle is made:
http://circlemakers.org/korn_circle.html

 

[23_Tauri]

Examples of some complex circles they've made:
http://circlemakers.org/totc2006.html

Errr... no. Circlemakersdotorg do not admit to making those formations. Read the text:

"Separating the wheat from the chaff... This is where we focus on the formations that have caught our eye during the 2006 crop circle season."

Those are just the boys' favourite formations of that year.

(footnote: I'm not saying that people didn't make those formations, but please get your facts right and don't credit formations to particular individuals unless they claim them)

 

[chuck4842]

I'm not saying the complex ones absolutely can't be made by man. I actually saw a few there that I used to draw in a mechanical drafting class. I just don't see collegiates and surveyors, scampering around in the night to do this, and the ones declared authentic have been arguably created overnight. If they weren't they'd have been caught spending days creating them, it's got to be a difficult moonlighting job.

 

[MRC_Hans]

http://circlemakers.org/exhibit_a.html

Examples of some complex circles they've made:
http://circlemakers.org/totc2006.html

I believe the QI crop circle has been mentioned earlier -- these guys made it!
http://circlemakers.org/qi.html

This one goes into detail as to how the circle is made:
http://circlemakers.org/korn_circle.html

Maybe Dough and Dave couldn't make it, seeing as they were using rather primitive methods, but I see no reason why humans couldn't make it.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

Errr... no. Circlemakersdotorg do not admit to making those formations. Read the text:

"Separating the wheat from the chaff... This is where we focus on the formations that have caught our eye during the 2006 crop circle season."

Those are just the boys' favourite formations of that year.

(footnote: I'm not saying that people didn't make those formations, but please get your facts right and don't credit formations to particular individuals unless they claim them)

Of course, in most cases people don't take credit for making crop circles:

1) That would make them simple vandals, and liable to paying compensation to the owner of the field.

2) The whole gig would fall down, and nobody would notice crop circles any longer.

The people who make them, and the self-appointed experts ('cerealogists', no less ) would suddenly be left without a hobby (and the ceralogists without an income from silly books), so they have a mutual interest in keeping the illusion going.

Hans

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I just don't see collegiates and surveyors, scampering around in the night to do this[...]

You don't believe students would do something silly in a group at night, so you think it more likely that it's aliens?

 

[MRC_Hans]

I'm not saying the complex ones absolutely can't be made by man. I actually saw a few there that I used to draw in a mechanical drafting class. I just don't see collegiates and surveyors, scampering around in the night to do this, and the ones declared authentic have been arguably created overnight. If they weren't they'd have been caught spending days creating them, it's got to be a difficult moonlighting job.

In England, where most of the things are made, it is only dark for 4-6 hours on summer nights, and only pitch dark for about 3 hours (unless there is a moon). With good planning and proper instruments (laser pointers, camera tripods with angle calibrated panning heads, laser distance rules, GPS units, etc) how long does it take to flatten some grain?

Most of the refutations try to show how comples those patterns are to construct, and pretend that perpetrators have to do all that in a dark field. ... Nonsense, they can do the construction in broad daylight in a parking lot or soccer field taking all the time they need, then make string templates and bring to the field.

Hans

 

[MRC_Hans]

I'm not saying the complex ones absolutely can't be made by man. I actually saw a few there that I used to draw in a mechanical drafting class. I just don't see collegiates and surveyors, scampering around in the night to do this, and the ones declared authentic have been arguably created overnight. If they weren't they'd have been caught spending days creating them, it's got to be a difficult moonlighting job.

ANd about the overnight construction: How many cases can actually be proved to be overnight? How many cases can somebody show a photo of an untouched field, and a crop circle the next day?

All we know is that it wasn't noticed till it was ... noticed. And even if people can testify to seeing the field the day before, perpetrators could have been out there, leaving markers and anchors.

Hans

 

[23_Tauri]

The people who make them, and the self-appointed experts ('cerealogists', no less ) would suddenly be left without a hobby (and the ceralogists without an income from silly books), so they have a mutual interest in keeping the illusion going.

Hans

Indeed. If any crop circle researcher (sic) tries to tell you that they want to solve the mystery, I'd take it with a pinch of salt....

 

[23_Tauri]

How many cases can somebody show a photo of an untouched field, and a crop circle the next day?

Hmmm... I think around Alton Barnes and Avebury in July then yes there probably are quite a few, considering the number of night-watchers and croppies in microlights there are flying over a relatively small area. However, I still think that pilots and passengers are fallible. There are so many anecdotes of the "so-and-so flew over that field yesterday and it wasn't there" variety each summer. Really, I don't think people are as observant as they think they are, when it comes to scouring the fields below.

More often though, I think it's a case of croppies not understanding how quickly a formation, even a seemingly quite complex one, can be laid down by a team of two to four people on a summer's night.