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CPAC 2021

Safe-Keeper said:
It's very destructive, and the fact that so many Americans buy into his lies is incredibly discconcerting, too. It's a symptom of the deeply polarised postfact society the US has devolved into. Truth matters less and less. Worst thing is, I'm not sure where to even begin with digging the country out of that hole. If a bloody coup wasn't enough of a wake-up call to people, I don't know what will be.
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Turning intolerance of lies into a first amendment issue, and it’s a clever move, makes it more difficult
 
Safe-Keeper said:
It's very destructive, and the fact that so many Americans buy into his lies is incredibly discconcerting, too. It's a symptom of the deeply polarised postfact society the US has devolved into. Truth matters less and less. Worst thing is, I'm not sure where to even begin with digging the country out of that hole. If a bloody coup wasn't enough of a wake-up call to people, I don't know what will be.
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America is Rome before The Fall.....
 
Safe-Keeper said:
It's very destructive, and the fact that so many Americans buy into his lies is incredibly discconcerting, too. It's a symptom of the deeply polarised postfact society the US has devolved into. Truth matters less and less. Worst thing is, I'm not sure where to even begin with digging the country out of that hole. If a bloody coup wasn't enough of a wake-up call to people, I don't know what will be.
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I'm surprised that people ever convinced themselves that this part of the right cared about "truth".

The same guys that made up the "brute" stereotype, overthrew several governments because of their fear of "negro domination", created the "Indians scalp us" stereotype when they were the ones taking scalps, signed off on internment camps and "Operation Wetback", followed Phyllis Schaffly on the ERA and Ronald Reagan on black and gay rights.

THis is the same group of white voters (and of course, who counts as "white" has always been somewhat flexible) that's always been driven by fear and misplaced grievance, mixed in with wealthy people who may be the same, or may manipulate them for profit.

(Yes, other racial groups have these folks too - they just don't get the same representation in government).

But these guys are large enough to get politicians that cater to them. Don't pat yourselves on the back too hard talking about "zombie" parties and the like - they're already hard at work gerrymandering and suppressing voters to their advantage.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Trump speech bingo
...
I stopped COVID, that's my vaccine Biden is taking credit for
...
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I just don't get how so many Trump supporters are also anti-vaxers. Haven't they listened to the King speak?

I see the Washington Post picked up on it:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ald-trump-said-in-his-cpac-speech/ar-BB1e68yU

Perhaps the most significant thing he said, though — for the country — was something he avoided forcefully advocating for when he actually commanded the most powerful office in the world:

Get a coronavirus vaccine.
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Safe-Keeper said:
...


Gods, you weren't joking. My first thought was that it looked utterly garish. My second was that the ex-Führer probably loved it when he first saw it.
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Yeah, and the artist's explanation of the various "symbolism" used in the piece makes me think he really likes his... recreationals. [emoji1]
 
Mumbles said:
But these guys are large enough to get politicians that cater to them. Don't pat yourselves on the back too hard talking about "zombie" parties and the like - they're already hard at work gerrymandering and suppressing voters to their advantage.
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Again, if you missed it....

The good news for the GOP is that millions upon millions of GOP voters apparently like zombie corpses more than actual humans.
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Anyone who thinks embracing full-bore insanity would be bad for the GOP is deluding themselves.
 
dirtywick said:
Turning intolerance of lies into a first amendment issue, and it’s a clever move...
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There is always going to be something of a tension between the First Amendment (which protects most speech) and the law of defamation (which makes certain lies punishable) but for the most part the correction of lies is left to the free marketplace of ideas.



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
 
d4m10n said:
There is always going to be something of a tension between the First Amendment (which protects most speech) and the law of defamation (which makes certain lies punishable) but for the most part the correction of lies is left to the free marketplace of ideas.
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Well, its doing a ******* lousy job of it!!
 
d4m10n said:
There is always going to be something of a tension between the First Amendment (which protects most speech) and the law of defamation (which makes certain lies punishable) but for the most part the correction of lies is left to the free marketplace of ideas.



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
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I’m not talking about legislation.

The correction of lies, or even having them challenged at all, is being framed as censorship. When lies aren’t treated with the same respect as truth, it’s censorship. So they refuse to engage with an audience until they’re allowed to lie unchallenged. And now rather than engage, they retreat deeper into their echo chamber where their lies are embraced and go unchallenged.
 
dirtywick said:
I’m not talking about legislation.

The correction of lies, or even having them challenged at all, is being framed as censorship. When lies aren’t treated with the same respect as truth, it’s censorship. So they refuse to engage with an audience until they’re allowed to lie unchallenged. And now rather than engage, they retreat deeper into their echo chamber where their lies are embraced and go unchallenged.
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Remember the Simon Singh lawsuit in the UK?

New Scientist 2010: Simon Singh wins libel battle against chiropractors

Guardian: Why we sued Simon Singh: the British Chiropractic Association speaks
The BCA gives a fascinating account of why it sued the writer for libel over article in Guardian, and the aftermath of its defeat
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I bring it up not to revisit that issue specifically but to point out that at the time it was bizarre from the POV of those of us in the US that one could be sued for debunking quackery. And here we were with the 1st Amendment.

Is debunking lies free speech or is telling them free speech? Actually, neither one. In the US the 1st Amendment is only about the government suppressing speech.

Of course the idiots in the Trump cult and before that the right-wing extremist GOP members have no understanding about the 1st Amendment leaving them vulnerable to propaganda peddlers.
 
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I just read Trump's speech. I read it rather than listened to it because I preferred keeping my dinner contents within the confines of my stomach. The fact checkers are going to have a long, long night with that one.
 
dudalb said:
GOP seems intent on comitting suicide.
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portlandatheist said:
Everything Trump touches dies, including the GOP itself. They had the opportunity to deep 6 Trump, now they can live with that choice and fail even more.
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I'm not so sure. It seems that a good 25%-35% of the US electorate are fully on board with Trumpism and will go through hell and high water to turn out to vote for him. Add in a 10%-15% of people who will vote GOP through habit, because they think that Democrats are communists, through religious convictions or a combination of things.

A Trumpist GOP can rely on 40%-45% support. Add in a healthy dose of voter suppression, gerrymandering and complacency as the white heat of anti-Trump sentiment is quenched by the normality of the Biden presidency and that's enough to switch the House, regain the Senate and grab the Presidency (albeit by losing the popular vote by a huge margin).
 
Firestone said:
Straw poll at CPAC (top 3)

Trump: 55%
DeSantis: 21%
Noem: 4%

Same, without Trump:

Ron DeSantis: 43%
Kristi Noem: 11%
Don Jr: 8%
Mike Pompeo: 7%
Ted Cruz: 7%
Tucker Carlson: 3%
Josh Hawley: 3%
Nikki Haley: 3%
Ivanka: 3%
Rand Paul: 2%
... and Mike Pence: 1%

Source: Dave Weigel, WAPO journalist, on Twitter.

ETA: for context about the significance of this. In the CPAC straw poll in 2013, the top 2 were Rand Paul and Rubio. So, there's still hope for Ted and Josh. :D
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Captain_Swoop said:
Isn't 55% for daddy Trump, actually a lot lower than expected?

Seems the entire CPAC weekend has been about promoting the Trump personality cult.
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Yes, it'a a bit of a disaster for Donny and the Trumpettes. He should have been polling ~70% or more, given the audience was the conspiratorial, nutcase, fringe of the Republicans.
 
Rep Gosar speaks at both CPAC and AFPAC.

AFPAC is an alternative to CPAC organized by open white nationalist Nick Feuntes. Generally it features Republicans and other conservatives who have been banned from more mainstream events for being a bit too overt about their fascist tendencies, but such distinctions are presently a bit blurry.

At AFPAC, Gosar spoke after another guest, former Rep. Steve King, R-Iowa, whose congressional career ended after he was stripped of his committee duties for questioning why "white supremacist" was considered an offensive term.

ABC News reported that Fuentes, the organizer, spoke after Gosar and told attendees that if the U.S. "loses its white demographic core, then this is not America anymore."
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https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/arizona/2021/02/27/rep-paul-gosar-arizona-skips-relief-bill-votes-talks-far-right-afpac-conference/6846801002/

The Trump defeat only sees the right wing in this country accelerating towards fascism, not retreating.
 
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