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Corbyn did win, what's next?

angrysoba said:
Some politicians, mostly Labour ones it seems, are saying it shows disrespect to the fallen servicemen and women by not singing the national anthem. Why?

It's also ironic that his critics in his own shadow cabinet are accusing him of being disloyal.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...89/jeremy-corbyn-david-cameron-pmqs-live.html

I expect the next time this comes round is when or if he refuses to wear a red poppy. That will be far harder to sell to people, though. I completely disagree with his shadow minister for equalities or whatever saying he should just put his views aside. That may be what politicians are supposed to do, but his refusal to simply discard his views to pander to the electorate is in fact what appeals to a lot of people. I wonder however of her own commitment to her own values on, say, equality would be just as flexible. "Yeah, shut up about all this equality stuff, will ya love, and go make the boys in the cabinet a cup of tea."
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News just in! Corbyn will wear a red poppy, as he always does. Normally he wears a white poppy together with a red poppy.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-i-won-t-wear-white-poppy-at-cenotaph-a2947701.html

Wearing a white poppy is the traditional way for a pacifist to not condone the massacre and political monstrosity of the First World War, and at the same time to respect the memory of all those whose lives were distorted or destroyed by that socio-political disaster.
 
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angrysoba said:
I completely disagree with his shadow minister for equalities or whatever saying he should just put his views aside. That may be what politicians are supposed to do, but his refusal to simply discard his views to pander to the electorate is in fact what appeals to a lot of people. I wonder however of her own commitment to her own values on, say, equality would be just as flexible. "Yeah, shut up about all this equality stuff, will ya love, and go make the boys in the cabinet a cup of tea."
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asydhouse said:
Also, he is saying he wants the party to work out policies, so a truly democratic and thrashed out set of policies will be in place well before the election. He said himself that he does not want to be a dictator handing down policies from on high, so any quirks in his personal details should be subsumed into the collective deliberations and ironed out. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to set in motion this revolution in the way Labour operates, and then steps aside to allow someone who actually wants to be PM take over the leadership before the election!
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But it does beg the question of how he is to remain principled and yet fight a general election possibly based upon policies he is known to disagree with.

That's the problem with him being at odds with the Parliamentary Labour Party on policy issues i.e NATO, Europe, Monarchy etc
 
Well if the party members determine the policy, he can either accept their decisions or resign. Same with the MPs (euphemistically glorified by the phrase "parliamentary Labour Party"), they can leave the party if their Blairite views are no longer accepted by the members.


PS It occurs to me that he may have certain principles which are more personal than templates for how he wants the entire nation to behave. He could lead a democratic party fighting for what it has chosen as its platform without compromising his personal behaviour. Not everything is as vital as the real issues he put forth in his speech to the TUC.
 
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asydhouse said:
Me too. He simply spoke like a human being sharing his understandings and his determinations. It was immensely refreshing. And everything he said was sound.

Also, he is saying he wants the party to work out policies, so a truly democratic and thrashed out set of policies will be in place well before the election. He said himself that he does not want to be a dictator handing down policies from on high, so any quirks in his personal details should be subsumed into the collective deliberations and ironed out. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to set in motion this revolution in the way Labour operates, and then steps aside to allow someone who actually wants to be PM take over the leadership before the election!

Anyway, all this hypercritical attention to his non singing principle, which is simply his life-long practice, is nothing short of Tory propaganda machine, showing who owns the press.
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In fact, as I said, a lot of the criticism has come from his own party. Looks like the Tory propaganda machine is bigger than we thought.
 
uk_dave said:
With very few exceptions, every front page is leading with his refusal to sing the national anthem of the country he seeks to lead.

It's stupid stuff like that which will be his achilles heel.
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Unless it turns out to be a highly popular move.
 
Antony said:
We don't have a "national" anthem. What we have is a tuneless monarchist dirge, with religious overtones that are meaningless to most people in the country. We need a new one.
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uk_dave said:
Tell that to the mob.
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It's about time someone did! It can only be good to get this idea out into the fields of public discourse. If everyone in the country hears about this, then sometime in the future it may come to be possible to make a new anthem for our times, instead of the dead and crushing past of empire and its delusionary glory.
 
uk_dave said:
But it does beg the question of how he is to remain principled and yet fight a general election possibly based upon policies he is known to disagree with.

That's the problem with him being at odds with the Parliamentary Labour Party on policy issues i.e NATO, Europe, Monarchy etc
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I'm sure there is room for compromise on certain issues such as taxation etc... without crossing a red line. Those issues don't have ethical dimensions whereas an atheist republican singing "God save the Queen" involves telling a big fat porky.
 
angrysoba said:
In fact, as I said, a lot of the criticism has come from his own party. Looks like the Tory propaganda machine is bigger than we thought.
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Yes, the Labour Party has been sucking up to tabloids and Tory voters for so long that it had become little more than part of the Tory propaganda arsenal of smug dismissal of all the childish people who don't like the capitalist triumphalism parading around pretending to be wise.

When Blair stuck his oar in, it was like a swipe from Tory Central. I wouldn't be surprised if it got the vote out for Corbyn!

I was depressed after the general election, not least by the rush to capitulate to the 25% of the voters who were Tory, as if they'd won by a landslide! It was "we must become more Tory!" straight away, all the Labour "leaders" ignoring the 75% who like me were virtually unrepresented in the "discussions".
 
The more I think about the guy, much as I admire him and what he is trying to do, the more I think he is probably a lightweight thrown into the deep end - a political minnow in a pool of sharks. He has had this role thrust upon him. I'm sorry to say it but I doubt he is up to the rough and tumble and it is only a matter of time before he goes - potentially because of 'health' reasons or some such to keep the people that voted for him on board.
 
Rum said:
.......He has had this role thrust upon him..........
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How so? No-one forced him to stand for election, and no-one made him go and campaign. He may not have been aware of the scale of the role he was taking on, possibly, but I really don't think it can be argued that he was reluctant.
 
MikeG said:
How so? No-one forced him to stand for election, and no-one made him go and campaign. He may not have been aware of the scale of the role he was taking on, possibly, but I really don't think it can be argued that he was reluctant.
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Well when the field was almost finalised it was felt there wasn't a wide enough spectrum of political positions to choose from, so they identified someone from the far(ish) left. Nobody thought he stood a hope in hell. Foot/shot in.
 
uk_dave said:
Tell that to the mob.
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That says a great deal about your attitude.

But Corbyn will be well advised not to treat people as a mob - for they are not - but as intelligent beings capable of reason, and not seek to corrupt, bamboozle and exploit them like that crook Blair.
 
Craig B said:
That says a great deal about your attitude.

But Corbyn will be well advised not to treat people as a mob - for they are not - but as intelligent beings capable of reason, and not seek to corrupt, bamboozle and exploit them like that crook Blair.
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Till the polls stabilise and he is gone burger

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cullennz said:
Till the polls stabilise and he is gone burger

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He might be gone tomorrow or next week. But while he's there he has no choice, and I'm sure no inclination, except to adhere to the principles and attitudes that won him so much support in the Leadership election.
 
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