Continuation - Ukraine erupts in riots and general strikes

[jimbob]

So apparently the Russians have 'found' audiotape of two 'CIA agents' plotting to shoot down Malaysian Air 17.
http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/12...dly-impersonate-cia-spies-to-pin-mh17-on-u-s/

...with Russian missiles fired from rebel territory. Man, those CIA guys are sneaky. Crafty, too.

Yes

Statement of the Dutch-based investigation team

https://www.politie.nl/en/news/2016...issile-from-a-farmland-near-pervomaiskyi.html

Nederland - The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) is convinced of having obtained irrefutable evidence to establish that on 17 July 2014, flight MH-17 was shot down by a BUK missile from the 9M38-series. According to the JIT there is also evidence identifying the launch location that involves an agricultural field near Pervomaiskyi which, at the time, was controlled by pro-Russian fighters. This was announced today by the JIT during a presentation for the relatives of the victims. Members of the JIT, Australia, Belgium, Malaysia, the Netherlands and Ukraine, are working together on the criminal investigation into the crash of flight MH17.

 

[catsmate]

Yes

Statement of the Dutch-based investigation team

https://www.politie.nl/en/news/2016...issile-from-a-farmland-near-pervomaiskyi.html

Not that mere facts will do much to change the minds of the Putin believers.

 

[trustbutverify]

Being immune to facts is a defining feature of cultists.

 

[dudalb]

Being immune to facts is a defining feature of cultists.

And Donald Trump,who made a point of saying there is not enough evidence to support Russia shooting down that airliner....

 

[Childlike Empress]

Coup Government Tries To Sabotage U.S.-Russia Rapprochement

Fighting in east Ukraine has restarted. This is an attempt by "deep state" forces to prevent any rapprochement between the U.S. and Russia under the new Trump administration.

The west-Ukrainian forces under command of the coup government of President Poroshenko started a large attack against the Russian supported Ukrainian self-defense forces in Donetsk and Lugansk governate. [...]

The U.S. government propaganda site RFERL sees a "creeping offensive" initiated by the government side. Even the belligerent and anti-Russian Washington Post editors have to acknowledge that the Ukrainian government started this round. While unreasonably blaming Russia they observes:

Ukrainian commanders acknowledge that in recent weeks their forces had moved some positions forward in the no-man’s land between the front lines.​

[...] The fight was planned and started just after the inauguration of the new U.S. president Trump. Trump has acknowledged that Crimea is part of Russia as its population is overwhelmingly Russian. He has announced to seek good relations with Moscow. He will likely eliminate sanctions against Russia.

For the Ukrainian coup government and its neo-conservative supporters this marks the end of their dreams. If it loses U.S. and NATO support the Ukraine must declare bankruptcy, the government will be kicked out and the country will, over time, move naturally back into the Russian sphere.

To prevent that Poroshenko was ordered to launch a new attack while blaming Russia. He did as his mentors told him and traveled to Berlin in the hope of German support. But such is not coming. The German government let it know that it sees through his games and has no interest in them. The government friendly daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung "leaked" (translated here) that Berlin knows that Poroshenko started the fight to influence Trump and to prevent any sanction relief for Russia. But Berlin believes that the gimmick will fail and Merkel fears that Poroshenko will end up losing another round of the war while Russia will still get the better relations it seeks.

One would hope so. There is nothing to win for western-Europe, or anyone else, in another fight with Russia.

Neither the Trump administration nor the EU has blamed any side for relaunching the conflict. The civil NATO head Stoltenberg stayed within the official line blaming neither side. That surely is not to Poroshenko's favor. [...]

From the frontlines:

 

[Mycroft]

Coup Government Tries To Sabotage U.S.-Russia Rapprochement




From the frontlines:

Hmmm, according to those oddly putinist barflies (barf lies?) at Moon of Alabama, Ukrainians fighting for Ukrainian independence from Russia can only be attributed to a secret plot to prevent Russia and the United States from making nice?

It describes the Ukrainian government as a "coup government", although Wikipedia says Petro Poroshenko was elected by popular vote, by a much wider margin that Trump was.

It demonizes Ukrainian forces by calling them "Nazi volunteer battalions".

It falsely claims that Minsk II is supposed to reunite Ukraine.

I'm sure I could find many other holes in this propaganda piece, but I'll have to spend more time on it.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Your time would be spent much better by reading the thread instead of wikipedia.

 

[Mycroft]

Your time would be spent much better by reading the thread instead of wikipedia.

I'm sure you have lot's of opinions about how I and others should be informed.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I'm sure you have lot's of opinions about how I and others should be informed.

I don't think your statements are a honest reflection of your stand of information.

 

[trustbutverify]

Hmmm, according to those oddly putinist barflies (barf lies?) at Moon of Alabama, Ukrainians fighting for Ukrainian independence from Russia can only be attributed to a secret plot to prevent Russia and the United States from making nice?

It's Putin's pre$$titutes at Moon over Alabama. The truth has nothing to do with it.

 

[Hungry81]

Coup Government Tries To Sabotage U.S.-Russia Rapprochement




From the frontlines:

Hmmm. So its still a small sovereign nation trying desperately to repell an invasion by a much larger bullying foreign nation.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

 

[trustbutverify]

It's Putin's pre$$titutes at Moon over Alabama. The truth has nothing to do with it.

I mean Moon of Alabama. Gotta keep these twatiods straight.

 

[Mycroft]

I don't think your statements are a honest reflection of your stand of information.

I think it's perfectly reasonable that Ukrainians don't want to see Ukraine swallowed by Russia, and that it's monstrous to vilify them for it.

I found this quote which seems oddly appropo:

"All conquests, all genocides, all plunders have been eternally rationalized, painstakingly justified. Grand bogus concepts of charity, of ‘altruism’ have been erected. Subjugated nations have always been ruined in the name of some higher principles, in order to save them from themselves." Andre Vltchek.

 

[dudalb]

I am still trying to understand why somebody as far to the left as CE is is such a huge fan of Trump and Putin.

 

[Childlike Empress]

FAKE NEWS: Even when CNN covers the Ukrainian-caused carnage, they lie [+Video]

[snipped comments on CNN's pathetic coverage of the recent violence]

Fort Russ, recently named by the Washington Post, in the 'Prop or Not' short list of 'fake news sites', is proud to be a remaining bastion of free and independent journalism, committed to sharing counter-narratives, the inconvenient truths, and voices of resistance and hope from around the world.

We believe that only an ever vigilant people, who maintain their right to free press by exercising it, can act as a check, [and ultimately a guillotine!] against the genocidal inclinations of the elites in charge of western governments and institutions.

Like Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and Syria - Eastern Ukraine has been in the cross-hairs of the US. What the US has committed are war crimes and crimes against humanity.

What has become apparent, and this is something we are optimistic about, is that increasing numbers of people are awakening to the fact that - 'bat-boy lives' tabloids aside - it's the legacy media outlets like CNN, NBC, ABC, (and so and so on) which are the world's largest and most criminal offenders in the realm of Fake News.

Good to have the US President agree for a change.

 

[Mycroft]

FAKE NEWS: Even when CNN covers the Ukrainian-caused carnage, they lie [+Video]




Good to have the US President agree for a change.

Positively Orwellian.

Seriously, how does that double-think not tie your brain in a knot?

 

[Jules Galen]

I think it's perfectly reasonable that Ukrainians don't want to see Ukraine swallowed by Russia, and that it's monstrous to vilify them for it.
I found this quote which seems oddly appropo:

"All conquests, all genocides, all plunders have been eternally rationalized, painstakingly justified. Grand bogus concepts of charity, of ‘altruism’ have been erected. Subjugated nations have always been ruined in the name of some higher principles, in order to save them from themselves." Andre Vltchek.

Actually, Russia doesn't want the entire Ukraine - they just want to control those parts of Ukraine where Russians live so they can protect from Ukrainian forces they see as "Fascists".

So...all the Hysteria about "Plunders" and "Genocides" is a bit over the top.

 

[Mycroft]

Actually, Russia doesn't want the entire Ukraine - they just want to control those parts of Ukraine where Russians live so they can protect from Ukrainian forces they see as "Fascists".

So...all the Hysteria about "Plunders" and "Genocides" is a bit over the top.

Do you remember how those Russians got there to begin with?


Can you say, "Colonization"? /Mr Rogers

 

[Childlike Empress]

Positively Orwellian.

Seriously, how does that double-think not tie your brain in a knot?

Careful, from what I hear 1984 is the top-selling book in the US right now. Not afraid they will find out that the core double-think is "war crimes are commited in our name all over the world" vs. "we are the good guys" when you throw this stuff around?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Do you remember how those Russians got there to begin with?

Can you say, "Colonization"? /Mr Rogers

Here's your beloved wikipedia:

Kievan Rus' (Old East Slavic: Рѹ́сь[2] (Rus'), Рѹ́сьскаѧ землѧ[2] (Rus'kaya zemlya), Ancient Greek: Ῥωσία, Latin: Rus(s)ia, Ruscia, Ruzzia, Rut(h)enia,[3][4] Old Norse: Garðaríki) was a loose federation[5] of East Slavic tribes in Europe from the late 9th to the mid-13th century,[6] under the reign of the Rurik dynasty. The modern peoples of Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia all claim Kievan Rus' as their cultural ancestors.[7]

Capital, obviously, Kiev. "Colonization"