Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Ken Dine]

According to VQA Giobbi's testimony, the reasons Amanda Knox became a suspect were:

1. The police decided the beak-in was staged.
2. Therefore, the police decided they should consider all those close to Meredith Kercher, and their alibis, as potential suspects.
3. Amanda Knox had the weakest alibi, in the opinion of police. Only Raffaele Sollecito supported her not being at the crime scene at the relevant time.
4. Behavioral analysis by Giobbi suggested to him that Amanda was suspect. For example, when she put on shoe covers in his presence, he perceived that she wiggled her hips.
5. Behavioral analysis by Giobbi also suggested to him that Raffaele was a suspect, because of the attention he paid to Amanda, even accompanying her to the police station.
6. Therefore, according to Giobbi, he had ordered that both be brought in for "special" ("simultaneous") questioning at (about) the same time, during which they (allegedly) indicated their involvement.

You forgot the PIZZA!

Based on this type of police reasoning, Patrick Lumumba became a suspect, I propose, because of the texts he and Amanda exchanged on Nov. 1, prior to the time of Meredith's murder. By making Lumumba a suspect, the police and prosecution eliminated the credibility of any statement by Lumumba that the texts were of innocent basis - that is, simply saying that Amanda didn't need to come to work.

You seriously believe that the police based their entire triumphant "CASE CLOSED" news conference of Nov 6th on such flimsy evidence as a vague text message?

REALLY?

OK, whatever. Dig your heels in!

 

[Grinder]

A fast track trial is not in any way equivalent or amounts to the same thing as a plea bargain. To call that nit-picking is way out-of-line. The fast track does not involve pleading guilty a huge difference. A plea deal precludes there being a trial if the judge accepts it, another huge difference.

amount to

Synonyms for "amount to"
equal, be equal

 

[Grinder]

At first you had claimed they were certain it happened at 10:30 pm based upon their dinner receipt, and now it's a range as early as 10:00 pm, which means it is within reason of the time Guede left the cottage.

Dear me, I recalled 10:30 they said as early as 10, so what? Since at that time and still today the TOD isn't certain how would that impact how the police would view it?

There's also the problem that a visibly bloody Guede likely wouldn't have climbed those stairs to enter into the heart of town.

Okay Tesla where's the help? It doesn't matter. If Guede had in fact used a jet pack that wouldn't have been known at the time. The police would have no idea where the guy was heading or if Ken Dine thinks there was a better route. They didn't know he was visibly bloody.

In any event, while their account may have reinforced early police theories that an African suspect was involved, the cops would have likely shown them pictures of Lumumba around Nov 6th (or shortly thereafter), and if the couple couldn't finger Lumumba, then their "Black Man Running" account is just a side note since it clearly didn't cause the cops to key in on any particular African suspects.

No one said anything about keying in on a specific suspect. As I said earlier we I don't know when she first came forward only when she gave her formal interview.

Perhaps you could explain why it is in the least bit important when they started thinking a black man was involved and why it is important or significant that the 6 black hairs were in your opinion what caught their eyes.

 

[Ken Dine]

The hairs were NEVER matched to anyone.

{{{SIGH!!}}}

How many times do I need to repeat it, that African hairs found at a rape/murder don't actually need to be matched to a particular person for the cops to decide that one of their perps has African ancestry!

Geeze, Louise!

As I said before only some of Meredith's hair were matched. They had fibers and lots of hair and 400 other pieces of evidence.

TRUE.

The boys downstairs and otehrs could have produced the kinky hairs and 6 hairs just isn't very many. Meredith could have picked them up from Shakey or Patrick and since we've been informed that Meredith was a slob maybe those hairs had been there for weeks.

If they did think there were a few hairs that may have come from someone with black ancestry that might have focused them a little.

That's all I've ever claimed here.

We have no facts that back the assertion but if they had been looking for a black man, good on them. I have yet to see any example of "good old police work" by the ILE.

The FACTS are that Stefanoni testified that they had found 5 hairs consistent with Guede in Meredith's bedroom (and, to satisfy Tesla, it's from the Massei trial records!)

I agree that Stefanoni is a pig, but why would she lie about the hairs?

 

[Ken Dine]

A fast track trial is not in any way equivalent or amounts to the same thing as a plea bargain. To call that nit-picking is way out-of-line. The fast track does not involve pleading guilty a huge difference. A plea deal precludes there being a trial if the judge accepts it, another huge difference.

amount to

Synonyms for "amount to"
equal, be equal

Still in nit-picking mode, eh?

 

[Numbers]

I realize that Mignini didn't use any found hairs at the crime scene as grounds for arresting Amanda, Raffaele & Lumumba, nor for probable cause for keeping Amanda, Raffaele & Lumumba in jail pending trial.

Mignini presented what evidence he felt would serve his purposes to accomplish those goals, and it's now a known fact that everything Mignini had alleged as grounds for their arrest and imprisonment (pending trial), was all bogus nonsense.

The fact that Mignini never mentioned any hairs is certainly not proof that no hairs were found at the crime scene, and Stefanoni's slide presentation offered up during the Massei trial certainly proves that the Italian cops had found both hairs and fibers at the crime scene, and some of those hairs were compatible with Guede.

Hairs found at the crime scene from the perp certainly can be expected, especially considering the circumstances of this particular crime, so why are so many of the regulars at this forum in dithers about this FACT? Do you seriously contend that the triumphant "CASE CLOSED" police media event of Nov 6th was based solely upon Amanda's wee-hour statements from her Nov. 5/6, 2007 interrogation, as well as one vague text message to Lumumba on the night of Nov 1st?
REALLY?

I am utterly amazed that the regulars in this forum are digging in their heels to this extent to dispute the obvious. Is the problem the messenger? Do some soul searching!

Ken

I'm not claiming hairs were not found. I'm questioning why the police and prosecution did not use them for the "reasonable suspicion" if hairs attributable to an African were available and meaningful as of Nov. 6. No such hair evidence was brought forth at Lumumba's arrest hearing on Nov. 8. Please correct me with citation if this last statement is not correct. IIRC, the police and prosecutor did find a witness to falsely state that Lumumba's bar was closed at the material time on the evening of Nov. 1. However, the police and prosecution also were aware as of Nov. 8 that that neither Lumumba nor Sollecito, but rather another male, had raped Meredith Kercher.

According to amandaknoxcase.com analysis, as of Nov. 8, 2007:

Early Exclusion of Sollecito and Lumumba as the Attacker

Critically, the Y-chromosome STR analysis of the vaginal swab returned a male profile (that is now known to correspond to Rudy Guede). This result was obtained on or about November 6, 2007, and while it may not have been known at the time that the profile belonged to Rudy Guede, it was known that the profile did not match the reference profiles for either Raffaele Sollecito or Patrick Lumumba. Thus, Sollecito and Lumumba were excluded as the attackers by about November 6, 2007. Thus, Sollecito and Lumumba were excluded as the attackers by about November 6, 2007. This exculpatory information, however, was not disclosed to the court or the defense prior to or during the pre-trial detention hearing on November 8, 2007.

Source: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/failed-sexual-assault-investigation/

ETA: I am simply skeptical about the hair being a motivator for the police and prosecution identifying Lumumba as a suspect. It is possible. But I think that his being a weak alibi for Amanda (being able to explain the text messages as innocent) was the real justification for his arrest. I would very much like to see some contemporary police documentation (prior to Nov. 5/6, 2007) about the supposed African hairs.

 

[Ken Dine]

Dear me, I recalled 10:30 they said as early as 10, so what? Since at that time and still today the TOD isn't certain how would that impact how the police would view it?

However, you certainly felt my 26 minute arrival time frame for Filomena at the fair was a big deal, but your 30 minute error is now acceptable?

Personally, I don't think their 10:00 or 10:30 pm recollection matters much since they clearly didn't see either Lumumba or Guede, so who cares?

Okay Tesla where's the help? It doesn't matter. If Guede had in fact used a jet pack that wouldn't have been known at the time. The police would have no idea where the guy was heading or if Ken Dine thinks there was a better route. They didn't know he was visibly bloody.

After Tesla jumped down one rabbit hole after you earlier he may be a tad rabbit-bit by now?

No one said anything about keying in on a specific suspect. As I said earlier we I don't know when she first came forward only when she gave her formal interview.

The important thing is when was she shown a lineup with Lumumba in it?

Likely, not before Nov 6th!

Perhaps you could explain why it is in the least bit important when they started thinking a black man was involved and why it is important or significant that the 6 black hairs were in your opinion what caught their eyes.

HAVEN'T I BEEN 100% CLEAR ALREADY?!?!?!?

AGAIN, I feel that the police were already focused in on Lumumba (an African man) BEFORE Amanda entered that interrogation room in the wee hours of Nov 6th.

You may feel that the police focused in on Lumumba during that interrogation based solely upon discovering a vague text message from Amanda to Lumumba on the night of the murder, but that just doesn't pass the smell test.

The police likely had copies of the text messages between Amanda and Lumumba long BEFORE Amanda entered that interrogation room on Nov 6th, so the police didn't likely stumble upon that text message by happenstance on Amanda's phone.

Also, why would Amanda suddenly go hysterical when they supposedly just happened to find that text-message on her phone, as they had claimed?

Of course, you're free to accept the police account from that night, but for me, it just doesn't pass the smell test.

 

[Numbers]

You forgot the PIZZA!





You seriously believe that the police based their entire triumphant "CASE CLOSED" news conference of Nov 6th on such flimsy evidence as a vague text message?
REALLY?

OK, whatever. Dig your heels in!

It was pizza and not crying or crying and all that other behavioral "evidence". At first, I took the claims about "behavioral evidence" seriously - not as indicating guilt, but as how the police thought. Now, based on the "Cat jumped" testimony by Giobbi, I interpret the "behavioral evidence" as a smoke screen. The real story could be as simple as: Amanda has a weak alibi, Mignini wants her arrested, therefore, arrest her and Raffaele on whatever excuse can be made to seem superficially reasonable to the judges, who favor the prosecution anyway.

The case was closed on the evidence presented by the police - no African hair mentioned. Perhaps they had some such evidence as back up, but there is no record of that being true at that time. The case was pursued based on the evidence as misinterpreted, contaminated, or perhaps even fabricated.

 

[Numbers]

....


HAVEN'T I BEEN 100% CLEAR ALREADY?!?!?!?

AGAIN, I feel that the police were already focused in on Lumumba (an African man) BEFORE Amanda entered that interrogation room in the wee hours of Nov 6th.

You may feel that the police focused in on Lumumba during that interrogation based solely upon discovering a vague text message from Amanda to Lumumba on the night of the murder, but that just doesn't pass the smell test.

The police likely had copies of the text messages between Amanda and Lumumba long BEFORE Amanda entered that interrogation room on Nov 6th, so the police didn't likely stumble upon that text message by happenstance on Amanda's phone.
Also, why would Amanda suddenly go hysterical when they supposedly just happened to find that text-message on her phone, as they had claimed?

Of course, you're free to accept the police account from that night, but for me, it just doesn't pass the smell test.

You could be correct. However, VQA Giobbi testified that it was Amanda that was the #1 suspect early on. He could be fibbing, but it was Amanda that had the key, Lumumba only the African ancestry. And of course, Amanda worked for Lumumba and the police knew that from her Nov. 2 questioning (it's in the police record that she told them she worked at Le Chic pub).

I suspect but do not know and cannot "prove" that the police had copies of the text messages before the Nov. 5/6 interrogation and that finding the message on Amanda's phone was a set-up by police.

 

[Grinder]

However, you certainly felt my 26 minute arrival time frame for Filomena at the fair was a big deal, but your 30 minute error is now acceptable?

Ken I will let Tesla deal with these things in the future. With my Dale C hat on I will explain to you once again that the time the black was spotted wasn't crucial withing limits. Had he been seen before 9 then no value. Had he been seen at 4 am then next to no value. But being seen at 10 or 10:30 didn't make one iota of difference.

Personally, I don't think their 10:00 or 10:30 pm recollection matters much since they clearly didn't see either Lumumba or Guede, so who cares?

We are discussing what was happening at the beginning. If she called the police with her eye witness information on the 2nd or 3rd or 4th then that would have made them think black man. The fact that she doesn't think it was Rudi is of no consequence when discussing those early days.

After Tesla jumped down one rabbit hole after you earlier he may be a tad rabbit-bit by now?

I wouldn't venture a guess at why you would think that.

There is much that doesn't pass the smell test.

Bye

 

[Ken Dine]

I'm not claiming hairs were not found. I'm questioning why the police and prosecution did not use them for the "reasonable suspicion" if hairs attributable to an African were available and meaningful as of Nov. 6. No such hair evidence was brought forth at Lumumba's arrest hearing on Nov. 8.

Please correct me with citation if this last statement is not correct.

Obviously, Mignini used whatever evidence he needed to use to accomplish his goals for each of these hearings.

As I've already posted, matching a suspect hairs to found hairs is rather subjective, and by the time they arrested Lumumba on Nov 6th, they may not have had time to contrive such evidence against Lumumba?

However, while they may not be able to conclude a particular suspect had shed the hairs, when there are several suspects of the same race, they can perhaps determine that one suspect is more likely to have shed the hairs than the other one.

It's been awhile since I read those FBI explanations on hair analysis, so if you're curious, then there's a lot to read on the topic.

I do recall that a UK paper reported that they took sample hairs from Lumumba for comparison to crime-scene hairs, but even if they tried to make a scientific match and if they couldn't do that in time for the hearing, or they couldn't make the match at all, then there are your reasons!

In any event, Mignini had more than enough trumped up evidence to serve his needs at each hearing, so the fact he didn't rely on actual hair evidence at these hearings (or any factual evidence), is meaningless.

IIRC, the police and prosecutor did find a witness to falsely state that Lumumba's bar was closed at the material time on the evening of Nov. 1. However, the police and prosecution also were aware as of Nov. 8 that that neither Lumumba nor Sollecito, but rather another male, had raped Meredith Kercher.

According to amandaknoxcase.com analysis, as of Nov. 8, 2007:

Source: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/failed-sexual-assault-investigation/

Mignini clearly had buried any exonerating evidence, and Mignini also had used contrived (bogus) evidence to serve his ends. So, what else is new?

BTW – The UK papers also reported that police had said that cell-phone records proved that Lumumba was in the vicinity of the cottage during Meredith's murder ...do you believe that?

ETA: I am simply skeptical about the hair being a motivator for the police and prosecution identifying Lumumba as a suspect. It is possible. But I think that his being a weak alibi for Amanda (being able to explain the text messages as innocent) was the real justification for his arrest. I would very much like to see some contemporary police documentation (prior to Nov. 5/6, 2007) about the supposed African hairs.

Conversely, I feel that Amanda's text messages to Lumumba on Nov 1st couldn't possibly be the entire basis for their triumphant "CASE CLOSED!" media event of Nov 6th without something more.

FOR THAT SOMETHING MORE, I feel that the found African hairs, coupled with the police noticing the concentric circles on the soles of Raffaele's Nikes on the night of Nov 5th, is what set the police off in prematurely concluding they had closed the case by Nov 6th.

Your viewpoint doesn't seem logical to me, and if my viewpoint doesn't seem logical to you, then so be it.

 

[Numbers]

I'm not claiming hairs were not found. I'm questioning why the police and prosecution did not use them for the "reasonable suspicion" if hairs attributable to an African were available and meaningful as of Nov. 6. No such hair evidence was brought forth at Lumumba's arrest hearing on Nov. 8. Please correct me with citation if this last statement is not correct. IIRC, the police and prosecutor did find a witness to falsely state that Lumumba's bar was closed at the material time on the evening of Nov. 1. However, the police and prosecution also were aware as of Nov. 8 that that neither Lumumba nor Sollecito, but rather another male, had raped Meredith Kercher.

According to amandaknoxcase.com analysis, as of Nov. 8, 2007:



Source: http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/failed-sexual-assault-investigation/

ETA: I am simply skeptical about the hair being a motivator for the police and prosecution identifying Lumumba as a suspect. It is possible. But I think that his being a weak alibi for Amanda (being able to explain the text messages as innocent) was the real justification for his arrest. I would very much like to see some contemporary police documentation (prior to Nov. 5/6, 2007) about the supposed African hairs.

It was pizza and not crying or crying and all that other behavioral "evidence". At first, I took the claims about "behavioral evidence" seriously - not as indicating guilt, but as how the police thought. Now, based on the "Cat jumped" testimony by Giobbi, I interpret the "behavioral evidence" as a smoke screen. The real story could be as simple as: Amanda has a weak alibi, Mignini wants her arrested, therefore, arrest her and Raffaele on whatever excuse can be made to seem superficially reasonable to the judges, who favor the prosecution anyway.

The case was closed on the evidence presented by the police - no African hair mentioned. Perhaps they had some such evidence as back up, but there is no record of that being true at that time. The case was pursued based on the evidence as misinterpreted, contaminated, or perhaps even fabricated.

You could be correct. However, VQA Giobbi testified that it was Amanda that was the #1 suspect early on. He could be fibbing, but it was Amanda that had the key, Lumumba only the African ancestry. And of course, Amanda worked for Lumumba and the police knew that from her Nov. 2 questioning (it's in the police record that she told them she worked at Le Chic pub).

I suspect but do not know and cannot "prove" that the police had copies of the text messages before the Nov. 5/6 interrogation and that finding the message on Amanda's phone was a set-up by police.

Obviously, Mignini used whatever evidence he needed to use to accomplish his goals for each of these hearings.

As I've already posted, matching a suspect hairs to found hairs is rather subjective, and by the time they arrested Lumumba on Nov 6th, they may not have had time to contrive such evidence against Lumumba?

However, while they may not be able to conclude a particular suspect had shed the hairs, when there are several suspects of the same race, they can perhaps determine that one suspect is more likely to have shed the hairs than the other one.

It's been awhile since I read those FBI explanations on hair analysis, so if you're curious, then there's a lot to read on the topic.

I do recall that a UK paper reported that they took sample hairs from Lumumba for comparison to crime-scene hairs, but even if they tried to make a scientific match and if they couldn't do that in time for the hearing, or they couldn't make the match at all, then there are your reasons!

In any event, Mignini had more than enough trumped up evidence to serve his needs at each hearing, so the fact he didn't rely on actual hair evidence at these hearings (or any factual evidence), is meaningless.




Mignini clearly had buried any exonerating evidence, and Mignini also had used contrived (bogus) evidence to serve his ends. So, what else is new?

BTW – The UK papers also reported that police had said that cell-phone records proved that Lumumba was in the vicinity of the cottage during Meredith's murder ...do you believe that?




Conversely, I feel that Amanda's text messages to Lumumba on Nov 1st couldn't possibly be the entire basis for their triumphant "CASE CLOSED!" media event of Nov 6th without something more.

FOR THAT SOMETHING MORE, I feel that the found African hairs, coupled with the police noticing the concentric circles on the soles of Raffaele's Nikes on the night of Nov 5th, is what set the police off in prematurely concluding they had closed the case by Nov 6th.
Your viewpoint doesn't seem logical to me, and if my viewpoint doesn't seem logical to you, then so be it.

I don't dispute that what you feel may be correct. And I and others have previously considered the possibility that some evidence (perhaps a DNA profile, in my case) suggested an African perp. But the evidence is not really there to be certain. That's what I'm pointing out. And the police logic, according to them, was that Amanda led them to Lumumba, not the other way around. But if they had African hair evidence before Nov. 5/6, then indeed that would have given them (false) confidence in their (looney) theory of the crime. Contemporaneous police records would establish whether or not this hair evidence was available and recognized at the relevant time by the police.

 

[Ken Dine]

However, you certainly felt my 26 minute arrival time frame for Filomena at the fair was a big deal, but your 30 minute error is now acceptable?

Ken I will let Tesla deal with these things in the future. With my Dale C hat on I will explain to you once again that the time the black was spotted wasn't crucial withing limits. Had he been seen before 9 then no value. Had he been seen at 4 am then next to no value. But being seen at 10 or 10:30 didn't make one iota of difference.

If I may put on the same hat you now want to wear, before you started nit-picking, what we had been discussing was the 12:45 pm phone call between Luca & Marco which had sent both guys rushing to the cottage (and arriving shortly after 1:00 pm), so why would anything Filomena had done in that 26 minutes matter at all to what we were discussing, which was Luca & Marco’s 12:45 pm phone call to each other?

After Tesla jumped down one rabbit hole after you earlier he may be a tad rabbit-bit by now?

I wouldn't venture a guess at why you would think that.

Perhaps, Tesla’s recent absence in backing up your ongoing nonsense could mean something? MEBBE, not?

There is much that doesn't pass the smell test.

Bye

You should know since you’re often knee-deep in it!

 

[Ken Dine]

[ ]

Conversely, I feel that Amanda's text messages to Lumumba on Nov 1st couldn't possibly be the entire basis for their triumphant "CASE CLOSED!" media event of Nov 6th without something more.

FOR THAT SOMETHING MORE, I feel that the found African hairs, coupled with the police noticing the concentric circles on the soles of Raffaele's Nikes on the night of Nov 5th, is what set the police off in prematurely concluding they had closed the case by Nov 6th.

I don't dispute that what you feel may be correct. And I and others have previously considered the possibility that some evidence (perhaps a DNA profile, in my case) suggested an African perp.

I doubt if the Italian police labs had the capability to determine ancestry from a genetic profile back in 2007?

I recently had my DNA done, so they can certainly do that today (my ancestry was pretty much in conformance to what I expected it to be). Yet, most police labs seem more involved in matching DNA evidence to a particular perp instead of determining race. Of course, I can see how testing for race could be useful information in many cases.

However, even if they could do DNA ancestry analysis back in 2007, I suspect that it would have taken much longer to do than the short time frame we’re talking about here, which is Nov 2nd to Nov 6th.

But the evidence is not really there to be certain. That's what I'm pointing out.

Based upon Stefanoni’s testimony during the Massei trial, I would say that the evidence is pretty strong that they had collected hair and fiber samples from Meredith’s bedroom, and logic dictates that there is a high probability that Guede had shed some hairs during that type of crime, which supports Stefanoni’s testimony in that regards.

And the police logic, according to them, was that Amanda led them to Lumumba, not the other way around.

Italian police logic? REALLY?

Seriously, I know that there are many competent Italian cops, as quickly identifying Guede proves there were. I can also give other examples of competent (and honest) Italian cops.

Even so, anything that had passed thru Mignini’s filters is highly suspect!

But if they had African hair evidence before Nov. 5/6, then indeed that would have given them (false) confidence in their (looney) theory of the crime.

Why would you term that as “FALSE CONFIDENCE” in deciding that the Italian cops were likely dealing with at least one African suspect?

As it turned out, the cops were wrong about Lumumba (who was African), but eventually they were right about Guede, the other African suspect.

Contemporaneous police records would establish whether or not this hair evidence was available and recognized at the relevant time by the police.

Good luck with that. We’re lucky we have Stefanoni’s testimony (such as it was), as well as common sense to determine they had found African hairs at the crime scene.

If they didn’t find African hairs in Meredith’s bedroom, then why did they take samples of Lumumba’s hair back on Nov 6th 2007, as reported in the UK press?

Everything points to one logical conclusion!

 

[Anode]

Just ran across an anonymous blog which is pushing Andrew Hodges' book. It's also promoting Nick van der Leek's insta-book.

But in the blog is the strange stuff. Whereas Machiavelli here on ISF says there really is no Italian language, inside-of-Italy forums discussing this case, it is remarkable that the blogger I read says that everybody knows that Knox and Sollecito are guilty, and that there remains a dedicated group of FOAKers which continue to lie about the case, even though the Italian ISC has acquitted them.

I'd not read the term FOAKers for a while.

Ok, here's a list of what the blog claims is fact:

- FOAKers are a small group harrassing and deceiving the public to support two "twice convicted" murderers.

- The ISC acquittals are not final, and set to be overturned.

- the FOAKers are desperate and fraught with fear, so much so that they write op/eds for local Seattle newspapers

- the reason why the vast majority of people know AK and RS to be guilty is because, "the facts speak for themselves."

- FOAKers have defamed the public prosecutor, and the websites which support AK are troll websites.

- they attack authors on Amazon (van der Leek, Follain)

- the function of the PR firm was to elevate murderers to celebrity status.

- Seattle is *coincidentally* the base of the "now defunct" PR firm. (Note: why the stars highlighting "coincidentally"? If the firm is defunct, how is this PR push continuing?)

- it is a fact that AK slept with cocaine dealers both before and after the murder.

- RS withdrew his alibi at a press conference in late 2014.

- "Fortunately, the rest of the world reports the truth about the murder of Meredith Kercher and will continue to do so."​

Question - why is none of this gaining any ground in Italy in Italian? Is there one Italian language blog which asserts any of this? Where is this "the rest of the world"? There's this anonymous blog, a closed PMF, an open PMF controlled by God, and a Wiki also controlled by that same God.

Well that reeks of desperation. Your question is a good one.

 

[Ken Dine]

You could be correct. However, VQA Giobbi testified that it was Amanda that was the #1 suspect early on. He could be fibbing, but it was Amanda that had the key, Lumumba only the African ancestry. And of course, Amanda worked for Lumumba and the police knew that from her Nov. 2 questioning (it's in the police record that she told them she worked at Le Chic pub).

I suspect but do not know and cannot "prove" that the police had copies of the text messages before the Nov. 5/6 interrogation and that finding the message on Amanda's phone was a set-up by police.

We're in 100% agreement about that 2nd highlighted part!

However, assuming their weak BREAK-IN theory proved Guede was let into the apartment using a key, that Amanda had the only key is rather weak for these reasons:

1 – Filomena also had a key and was less than 10 minutes away from the cottage that night;

2 – the landlady had a key, and perhaps the landlady gave a key to various workers over the years;

3 – Guede may have only tossed the rock thru Filomena's window to see if anyone was home, then he saw Meredith, hid until she unlocked the door, and then he pushed his way in after her;

4 – using a pick an experienced thief can open a locked door in just a few seconds.

You seem very experienced with the law, so you can obviously see the HUGE holes in the prosecution's BREAK-IN theory if it had been presented in a normal court of law.

 

[Numbers]

We're in 100% agreement about that 2nd highlighted part!

However, assuming their weak BREAK-IN theory proved Guede was let into the apartment using a key, that Amanda had the only key is rather weak for these reasons:

1 – Filomena also had a key and was less than 10 minutes away from the cottage that night;

2 – the landlady had a key, and perhaps the landlady gave a key to various workers over the years;

3 – Guede may have only tossed the rock thru Filomena's window to see if anyone was home, then he saw Meredith, hid until she unlocked the door, and then he pushed his way in after her;

4 – using a pick an experienced thief can open a locked door in just a few seconds.

You seem very experienced with the law, so you can obviously see the HUGE holes in the prosecution's BREAK-IN theory if it had been presented in a normal court of law.

I claim no special experience with the law.

The break-in theory of the police was one assumed by them without any credible or objective evidence of "staging". No legal background required to see that; VQA Giobbi's testimony, for example, demonstrates it was based on assumptions by police of where a burglar would or would not "logically" enter.

On a similar bogus police position, there was never any credible or objective evidence presented by the police that the "cat" blood was from cat, and there was suggestive evidence that it was from a human source (DNA replicated under forensic PCR, which is specific for humans and possibly other primates, suggesting human DNA).

On a point in an earlier post, the "false" and "loony" police theory was that Amanda had let Lumumba into the cottage, and that Amanda, Raffaele, and Lumumba had attacked Meredith. All of them were, of course, innocent.

 

[Bill Williams]

I claim no special experience with the law.

The break-in theory of the police was one assumed by them without any credible or objective evidence of "staging". No legal background required to see that; VQA Giobbi's testimony, for example, demonstrates it was based on assumptions by police of where a burglar would or would not "logically" enter.

Machiavelli in these very continuations went positively apoplectic insisting that burglars only do logical things and practise their craft as if their membership in Associazione Italiana di Logica e sue Applicazioni was at stake.

 

[Grinder]

I don't dispute that what you feel may be correct. And I and others have previously considered the possibility that some evidence (perhaps a DNA profile, in my case) suggested an African perp. But the evidence is not really there to be certain. That's what I'm pointing out. And the police logic, according to them, was that Amanda led them to Lumumba, not the other way around. But if they had African hair evidence before Nov. 5/6, then indeed that would have given them (false) confidence in their (looney) theory of the crime. Contemporaneous police records would establish whether or not this hair evidence was available and recognized at the relevant time by the police.

One thing on the text messages is that they were not kept by the phone companies in Italy at that time. IIRC it was London John that investigated that.

 

[Grinder]

Anglo did some research as well on the texts.

Also not that it makes any difference in any way but for accuracy only Filomena and Laura moved into the cottage at the end of August and the Meredith moved in after Amanda had taken a room but she didn't move in until about September 21st.

Google translation of Filomena's testimony from the impeccable PG Wiki

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Filomena_Romanelli's_Testimony