Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Numbers]

This is rather interesting. The decision of the ECHR in this case on this point was:

Decision of the Court
Admissibility – exhaustion of domestic remedies
The Italian Government alleged that Ms Parrillo ought to have used a remedy providing for a review of constitutionality, which was introduced in Italy in 20075. The Court welcomed, in this new form of review, the encouragement given by the Constitutional Court to the national judicial authorities to interpret domestic standards and the Constitution in the light of the European Convention on Human Rights and the Court’s case-law. However, it noted, on the one hand, that the Italian system provided only for indirect application by individuals to the Constitutional Court and, on the other, that it had not been shown, through established case-law and practice, that, where the donation of embryos to research was concerned, an action by Ms Parrillo before the ordinary courts to raise a question of constitutionality before the Constitutional Court in the light of the Convention would have amounted to an effective remedy. In consequence, it could not be claimed that Ms Parrillo ought to have exhausted this remedy.

http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/app/conve...tro fertilisation to scientific research .pdf

-----

The claim by the Italian government was outrageous. As Numbers has pointed out, judges in all courts below the constitutional court have been obliged to interpret all laws in a convention compliant manner. But, additionally, if they are unable to do this - in other words, if a reading of the law makes it impossible to interpret it in such a manner - they are obliged to refer the law to the constitutional court who will then render a final decision as to whether it can, in fact, be interpreted compliantly. If it cannot, then it must be struck down. In attempting to shift the burden of questioning and establishing the constitutionality of a law to a claimant or defendant, the government was effectively arguing that the duties imposed upon the judges of the lower courts are not actually duties at all.

Regarding the Italian government's claim, in the ECHR case Parrillo v Italy [GC] 46470/11 27/08/2015, that Parrillo should have appealed to the Italian Constitutional Court to exhaust all domestic remedies in her case:

The ECHR pointed out that individuals are generally unable to appeal directly to the Italian Constitutional Court; in Italian law, the procedure an individual could follow is, in an appeal to an ordinary appeal court, to ask that court to pose a question of the Constitutional Court.

Note further that the Italian Constitutional Court instructed all ordinary courts in Italy to follow the European Convention to interpret law, as long as that did not contravene the Italian Constitution. In the case of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, the ordinary Italian courts failed to follow that direction.

It seems remarkable that in Italy, the ordinary courts apparently can ignore the direction of the Constitutional Court without any consequence.

 

[Vixen]

Born, raised, worked and ... in Seattle. Proud UW grad. And I repeat you are spewing bull.



No first she lived in a dorm and then moved into a house on 12th and 52nd just north of U YMCA. She lived with Paxton after her acquittal and it was in the International district which used to be called Chinatown.



Perhaps Tesla will engage and verify that West Seattle is not around the corner from the UW. BTW the UW hasn't been in downtown Seattle for about 130 years.

During rush hour it can take an hour easy to get from the UW to West Seattle.

Anyway you were totally wrong. She had lived away from home for years. Meredith had lived away from home for years. You whole point was and is bull.

I agree with you.

 

[acbytesla]

AIUI Quintavalle's till was taken away for POS analysis, so no receipts needed, anyway. Anyway, when buying from a corner shop, quite often it just says, "grocery item".

No, not for a very long time. While what you are suggesting is possible. It isn't likely in today's computer age. Even the corner grocery store can afford a POS system integrated with basic inventory software.

But why don't we just accept reality and agree that "bleach" receipts for that day DON'T EXIST. OK?

 

[Methos]

The problem with Knox's site is that it doesn't prompt my Chrome browser to do the translation as the transcript at the 'Guilter' site had done.

That's because TMoMK has transcribed the testimony using OCR and added the initials of who is speaking (an A for commitment here but OCR and transcript are prone to errors). You'll have to but the original transcript (buried somewhere in the maze of their "File Library") next to their transcript to check if their transcription is accurate first.

Also, the Knox case doesn't tell you which attorney is asking questions, just that it's a question,
[...]

That is because "Knox's site" as you call it presents the documents in their original form in pdf format without altering them. Some of them have been OCRed, but most of the originals are of such poor quality that OCRing them is difficult if not impossible (see commitment comment above).

 

[Vixen]

Yes. It would be okay to refer to him as Gunther. If we were discussing a famous case about Gunther convicted in the US no one here would be insisting on the umlaut.

In German you must never, never leave off the umlaut. You can substitute a suffix "e".

 

[Vixen]

I think Amanda & Raffaele said they left the cottage that night around 5:00 pm? Meredith left earlier.

The car may have been that guy (forget his name now) that closed his business, met a friend, and then drove the friend to the parking garage so the friend could get his car. While he knew Meredith, and was near the cottage that night, the police concluded he had nothing to do with the murder.

Please can you do us the courtesy of checking your facts. the "guy's" name is Kokomani.

Keep up, please.

 

[Methos]

AIUI "Diya" is a nickname. It is rather regrettable this creeping incursion of nicknames into legal documents. What next, One-Eye Slasher and Fingers Luigi versus the Italian State?

Nope, Diya is Lumumba's real first name Patrick is his "nickname"
But looking at Matteini one could get the impression that Diya was his family name

 

[Vixen]

Ahhh! That explains it, too much rain on your noggin over the years!


As for spewing bull, you claimed this:

The NIT-PICKER Further Doth Claim:



Doesn't mom live in West Seattle? If so, your above statement was nonsensical!

Where I come from (el Lay), a 19 minute drive (the distance from the U of Washington to Edda's home in light traffic) is indeed just around the corner, and in the sense I meant "just around the corner," is that it would be convenient for Amanda to frequently go home for a quick visit, or to do her laundry, etc.

Google map showing the driving times:

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/b0rjbof.png[/qimg]

BTW - I often get to locations in far less time than Google Map's estimates, so 19 minutes isn't engraved in stone.




You didn't say anything about rush-hour in your initial claim that Amanda couldn't conveniently return home to her mom, so I call B$ since people quickly learn to avoid rush-hour trips!

Before going to Italy Amanda did live in a dorm (as I had said), and also with Paxton in an apartment, as you had said.

I admitted I goofed about the apartment, and also about my implication that Amanda wasn't yet experienced in maintaining a home so as to not piss off her Italian roommates. Hey, Laura may have been a flaming 'B' and compulsively clean, so Laura may have been an unreasonable handful?

Even so, I was still CORRECT that the two older Italian gals thought their two younger English-speaking roomies weren't pulling their weight in house chores. I was also CORRECT that the two older gals instituted set chores with a fine system. Will you admit I was CORRECT about that?

Can you admit that you had exaggerated the distance and difficulty that it would take Amanda to visit her mom and sister frequently as she attended the U of Washington?

As I recall, one of Amanda's reasons for going to Italy was to cut the cord and be on her own, which implies she didn't feel she had done that yet.

You goof disproportionately with your half-baked facts and insistence on regurgitating them incessantly. It is very annoying for those of us informed of the facts. Then you get irate when your goofs are pointed out to you.

 

[acbytesla]

If a sex-obsessed scoundrel says so, it must be true. What's in it for you, Dr Tesla? .

What's wrong with being sex obsessed? I love getting laid. You should try it sometime. I know many men and women who actually enjoy it and don't view it as something dirty and unnatural.

BTW, Dr Tesla is not me. There is a guilter that goes by that moniker, but that's not me.

 

[Methos]

AIUI Quintavalle's till was taken away for POS analysis, so no receipts needed, anyway. [...]

Do you have a source for that?

 

[Vixen]

Now that I think about the cheap PSA fares, I think it was actually $8 between Burbank and San Diego, and $14 to San Fran on Electras, and $21 to San Fran on a 727 (all one-way). Still cheap for the time.

I never thought about taking the bus since I've rarely done that myself. The kids in my family (and the kids of friends) all get cars at 16 y/o since you really need a car here in el Lay to survive.

However, Amanda the Earth-child probably did use buses and bikes. Buses now allow you to take along your bike with you on the bus, which is more convenient. Using a bus and her bike to visit mom would allow Amanda to save even more money for her European adventure, and the exercise is good too.

Everything you said makes sense.

Urgh.

 

[acbytesla]

Do you have a source for that?

I'm sure she doesnt. I'd also bet that this too is one of her fabrications. Keep in mind when Quintavalle was questioned days after the murder, he didn't offer anything of value. He only came forward months later.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen

This is my post from Amazon reviews showing how hypocritical PGP such as yourself are in constantly accusing Amanda and Raffaele of lying :-

In view of how Columbo and other haters constantly accuse Amanda and others of lying, the record of the haters in lying and defending the lies of other should be exposed.
* The prosecution told numerous lies which can be found on http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/ and http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/myths.html. The prosecution released false information to the media about the purchase of bleach receipts, the washing machine running, Amanda showering in a bloody bathroom, a missing Harry Potter book . The prosecution lied in court. Stefanoni lied about the amount of picograms on Raffaele's knife, Comodi lied in court about the time Amanda called her mother, Stefanoni lied about changing gloves and prosecutor Crini lied saying that Raffaele's knife matched the imprint on Meredith's bed. The haters slavishly defend corrupt prosecutors who told numerous lies.
* Books, documentaries and films about the case are often riddled with falsehoods. The following are examples :-
John Kercher's book Meredith. The falsehoods are detailed on http://groundreport.com/amanda-knox...arable-damage-caused-by-wrongful-convictions/ http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/ http://www.injusticeanywhereforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1870&sid=82fc62b3185cbd71f41e0c2cd6559958
The lifetime move the falsehoods are detailed in chapter 2 of finding justice in Perugia.
Barbara Nadeu's book Angel Face. As with John Kercher's book the falsehoods are detailed on http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/amanda-knox-media-lies/
A documentary on British Television is Amanda Knox guilty the rebuttal can be found by searching "is Amanda Knox guilty youtube rebuttal"
John Follain's book which are detailed here http://groundreport.com/journalistic-integrity-questioned-once-again-in-the-amanda-knox-case/
The haters have never complained about the falsehoods in the items listed. In fact, John Kercher's book Meredith received glowing 5 star reviews.

* The haters spread lies in the comments sections of articles about the case and Amazon reviews.
Heiress Amazon review WTBH - "For starters was found cleaning the place with bleach when the police arrived". Truth: Amanda was not caught cleaning when the police arrived.
Bejamin Fletcher "BRFC are back" Amazon review WTBH - "They've found Meredith's blood on a knife in his apartment". Truth: There was no blood on Meredith's knife.
Christina comments page 7 Amazon review WTBH - "whose is the female fooprint who applied female sized bruises on MK's neck in strangulation" Truth: There were no female footprints in Meredith's room or female thumbprints on Meredith's neck.
JF Rodrigue Amazon review WTBH - " She was doing cartwheels in the police station." Truth: Amanda did not do cartwheels.
Wendy Murphy in her blog - "pro Amanda forces forget to note the knife was found hidden in a shoebox far back inside a coset at Sollecitito's apartment and that the knife had been scrubbed with bleach." Truth:The knife was found in Raffaele's kitchen drawer and the knife had not been cleaned with bleach.
* The haters have set up a website themurderofmeredithkercher.com which is full of falsehoods detailed here http://groundreport.com/new-website-exposes-campaign-of-lies-misinformation-against-amanda-knox/
* TJMK has often used the claims of people who lied about their credentials. For instance, TJMK promoted Ellie Ewing a woman who created a blog "lies my mother told me" where she represented herself as a psychologists with many years of experience when dicussing the murder of Meredith Kercher. The reaility was Ellie Ewing had no experience or qualifications as a psychologist.
* There were instances of witnesses lying in this case. Hekuran Kokomani claimed he saw Amanda, Raffaele and Rudy together on the night of the murder. Kokomani was proved to have lied because he said Amanda had gaps in her teeth and an Italian uncle. Fabio Gioffredi said he saw Amanda, Raffaele, Meredith and Rudy on the October 30th 2007 between 4.30 and 5.30 pm. Raffaele's computer shows itense activity from 5.30 pm to 6.30 pm which proved Fabio had lied. The haters have never criticsed these witnesses for lying.
* Rudy Guede lied about having a date with Meredith and someone else attacked Meredith. The haters have never attacked Rudy for lying. In fact, many haters support and defend Rudy.
* The Chiefi report written to annull the Hellman aquittal and the Nenci motivation report were full of falsehoods. The falsehoods can be found by searching "Injustice anywhere forum Nenci stupid errors" and "Injustice Anywhere forum Chieffi report errors". The haters never complained about these the falsehoods in these reports.
The haters accuse Amanda and Raffaele of lying but lie themselves and have condoned and ignored the lies of others. The mind boggles at this hypocrisy.

I can only speak for myself. Pathologist Lalli (and pathologists are fully qualified doctors; in the UK it takes at least seven years to qualify) noted bruising on Mez' face, which in his professional opinion were inflicted by female size hands.

Perhaps you can photoshop a pic of Rudy's hands showing midget-size digits?

 

[Methos]

You goof disproportionately with your half-baked facts and insistence on regurgitating them incessantly. It is very annoying for those of us informed of the facts. Then you get irate when your goofs are pointed out to you.

LOL, please prove just once that you are indeed "informed of the facts." Just once...

 

[Vixen]

Do you have a source for that?

It was suggested, but I can't remember the source. Try a search.

Makes sense. Say you buy some goods later connected with a crime. Do you really think throwing away the receipt has your back covered?

 

[Grinder]

I'm sure she doesnt. I'd also bet that this too is one of her fabrications. Keep in mind when Quintavalle was questioned days after the murder, he didn't offer anything of value. He only came forward months later.

Why do you nit-pick the poor Vixen?

 

[Vixen]

Heya Anglolawyer,
Good to see ya back at the ISF discussion table!

What you are remembering is not from The Hellmann Court,
it's from The Massei Court, waaaay back in March of 2009.
Perugia Shock covered it well back then, have a read, it's classic Frank Sfarzo:

Sunday, March 29, 2009
The Day of Foolery
SUPER FAKE WITNESS

What was needed? Elements setting Amanda and Raffaele out of his house during the crime time? Well, they arrived. Antonio Curatolo, the homeless guy, the first and main Superwitness, the one who was supposed to nail Amanda and Raffaele saw them at the basketball court from 21:30 to 23:30. So, they were not at his place. But, if he's right, they were not even assailing Meredith.

Curatolo knew he had to study his part well, that he couldn't afford to to screw-up. Apparently he was aware of what not to say. The masks and the witches are wrong. So he eliminated them. The buses to the discotheque are fine. So he inserted them. Then he needed to show details, and how he could fix the presence of Amanda and Raffaele to exact times. Who knows how many times he repeated to himself this concept and so he tried. But he tried too much, he added too many details, imaginary details, wrong details.

It seems that he's been working hard to remember, but probably he forgot that Amanda and Raffaele had to be there only after 22:30-23:00.
He maybe thought that having seen the lovebirds only for a few minutes wasn't enough and in an effort to be credible he extended their presence to the whole period, providing them, in this way, an alibi for the crime. Or proving that his testimony was a fake.

No surprise, that's what happens when you rely on lunatics. People who can learn the same lesson a hundred times and still getting it wrong.
Curatolo was so worried about fixing the time that besides recalling that he goes to check it to the electronic board --on the other side of the square-- he added, today, that he also checks it on his own watch. But he had always stated not to have a watch. So Massei asked him to show his watch. And he didn't have it. Massei asked him if he could be more precise about his arrival time because 21:30-22:00 was a bit vague. And he did get more precise, much more precise: 21:27-21:28!

This is Antonio Curatolo, he can tell you exactly what you want to hear, he can tell you anything and the opposite of anything. He, as I always said, is simply a psychiatric case.
Now everyone realizes it. Even those who went to interview him and found him totally rational and credible. Even the judge Micheli, probably, while reading about today's hearing. Everyone was laughing at him in the courtroom. At him and at the heroes who discovered the Superwitness in that hard to reach place, the street.
<snip>

* * *

Gotta luv old "Toto" the tramp...
RIP Antonio Curatolo,
here's hopin' your heaven is full of heroin, hard benches and starry nights!

If you were bumped off, wouldn't you want some old bum sticking up for you?

 

[Vixen]

Still in nit-picking mode, eh?

I am sure you have already been told they do not have plea bargaining in Italy.

 

[Methos]

It was suggested, but I can't remember the source. Try a search.
[...]

Please, that's lame, making something up again under the "AIUI" banner trying to send me off to another wild goose chase, are you? It would be nice for once if you'd be able to back up your claims without having to be asked for a source... But I think acbytesla is right:

I'm sure she doesnt. I'd also bet that this too is one of her fabrications. Keep in mind when Quintavalle was questioned days after the murder, he didn't offer anything of value. He only came forward months later.

 

[Grinder]

I am sure you have already been told they do not have plea bargaining in Italy.

The fast track trial amounts to the same thing as a plea bargain but be careful to note that is not saying it is equivalent to a plea bargain.