Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

RWVBWL · Aug 30, 2015

Grinder said:
If anyone cares "22:00-22:30 Time approximate: Alessandra Formica and boyfriend, Lucio Minciotti, descended the stairs next to Piazza Grimana that lead to via San Antonio where their car is parked. Claims a black man [who could have been African or Indian] walking with his head down bumped into her boyfriend and continued walking in a hurry as if nothing had happened. Original police statement given to Monica Napoleoni on November 12, 2007 said “While we were going down the steps, my boyfriend was violently bumped into by a man of color, who was running very fast towards via Pinturicchio.” Minciotti told her what they’d witnessed wasn’t important and not to go the police. Formica also testifies seeing a broken down car at the car park exit and the owner standing beside it talking on a cellphone. Formica didn’t notice or look at the cottage."

I don't know how early she let the police know, but her formal interview was on the twelfth.

I asked Frank Sfarzo of Perugia Shock years ago
if Alessandra Formica came forward and spoke to the police before or after PL, AK and RS were arrested.
He told me it was after they were arrested.

The 12th? Is there an English translation of her deposition?
It seems a long time to wait to come forward to try and help the police.
Her boyfriend Luca is pretty convincing, right?
"Nope, honey, of course that man of colour runnin' by us wasn't involved in that English students murder"...

Hmmm,
I wonder if she was seen on CCTV video,
it seems like her car was parked in or near the parking garage on Viaie Sant'Antonio,
and she also saw the broken down car too:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...2!3m1!1s0x132ea080508db569:0x3c37f59f19b9c75d

Heck,
zoomin' in on that Google map,
I can almost see and smell the stench from the spirit of "The Tramp"
as PM Mignini called deceased Super Witness Antonio Curatolo...

Of course,
non of this really matters anymore, because AK + RS are free,
and yep, I'm livin' my life, the waves are pumping, the water is warm, the weather is hot,
some chicks I know are waaay rad, life is good!

I hope you too are all livin' your life!
Yea!

RW

Ken Dine · Aug 30, 2015

RWVBWL said:
I asked Frank Sfarzo of Perugia Shock years ago
if Alessandra Formica came forward and spoke to the police before or after PL, AK and RS were arrested.
He told me it was after they were arrested.

The 12th? Is there an English translation of her deposition?
It seems a long time to wait to come forward to try and help the police.
Her boyfriend Luca is pretty convincing, right?
"Nope, honey, of course that man of colour runnin' by us wasn't involved in that English students murder"...

Hmmm,
I wonder if she was seen on CCTV video,
it seems like her car was parked in or near the parking garage on Viaie Sant'Antonio,
and she also saw the broken down car too:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/P...2!3m1!1s0x132ea080508db569:0x3c37f59f19b9c75d

Heck,
zoomin' in on that Google map,
I can almost see and smell the stench from the spirit of "The Tramp"
as PM Mignini called deceased Super Witness Antonio Curatolo...

Of course,
non of this really matters anymore, because AK + RS are free,
and yep, I'm livin' my life, the waves are pumping, the water is warm, the weather is hot,
some chicks I know are waaay rad, life is good!

I hope you too are all livin' your life!
Yea!
RW

Out of curiosity I read her testimony this morning:

Testimony of Alessandra Formica:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Alessandra_Formica's_Testimony

From the Massei Transcripts (Italian - view the above page with the Chrome browser to read it easily in English)

The first the police heard from her was when Alessandra voluntarily appeared and first gave her statement to deputy commissioner Napoleoni, on November 12, 2007.

Alessandra's boyfriend was annoyed with her since he said they didn't see anything of importance, and of course, they forced the boyfriend to give a statement later, which is what really annoyed him.

Alessandra stated that she never saw the person's face and only noticed that his skin was darker than a European's skin, but she thought he could have been either African or Indian.

Alessandra was also vague as to the timing, either 10:00 or 10:30, or even later. She said she arrived home around 11:00 pm, and that home was a 15 minute car drive from the parking garage.

Alessandra saw a stalled car, which she described as a station wagon, The man was on his cell-phone and there was also a woman and a baby with him. She never saw a tow truck. She never noticed the cottage, nor heard anything unusual. She did say it was very cold that night, but couldn't remember if it rained.

Alessandra did have a restaurant receipt that she took with her to the station on the 12th, but the cops didn't seem interested in it and they told her she could throw it away, which she did. Surprising, none of the attorneys ever asked her if she remembered the time on the receipt, but there was a lot of discussion as to what she ate for dinner ...food must be a big deal in Italy.

(LG: Luciano Ghirga Knox defense lawyer):

AF: Yes, yes, I remember that I had with me a receipt that evening, so as to witness the time when I was out.

LG: This so. Another thing, since it is very precise, that ticket that she with whom she went to the police station, stores it, because here …?

AF: Do not have more, because they told me that there was no need [to keep it], they asked me what I ate and went back alone.

It wasn't just Ghirga and all the attorneys were very interested in what Alessandra had for dinner (dumplings), and at one point, Mignini chimed in to correct Alessandra's recollection of her dinner fare by saying what she had told the police that she had eaten back on Nov 12th 2007 ...Italy is very, very strange.

Because Alessandra first came forward on the 12th, and since the police had already stated they were looking for a 4th "North African Musician" on the 10th, Alessandra obviously had nothing to do with the cops' earlier fixation on African suspects.

Also, clearly Guede wouldn't have bounded up those stairs since the stairs led in the opposite direction of the garden where Guede had chucked the phones around 10:00 pm.

For reference, the upper street reached by that stairway is Via Pinturicchio.

The bottom of the stairway is at the intersection of three streets, Via degli Scortici, Viale Sant’Antonio (the cottage is on Viale Sant’Antonio) and Via della Pergola. You can't see the cottage from the stairs, so Alessandra couldn't have known which direction the guy had come from.

To reach the garden where he chucked the phones, Guede would have gone in the opposite direction and headed down secluded Via della Pergola - here's Google's street view showing the bottom of the stairs:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.114...p_uetDurXyeXenzKi1Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

(DR: Daniela Rocchi Defense Counsel for Raffaele Sollecito):

DR: What kind of lighting was on these stairs?
AF: The lighting very gloomy.
DR: This person was walking with his head down?
AF: Yes.
DR: Then his face how long has seen?
AF: A fraction of a second. That is, after the impact, I turned around, but he had already moved on. It was a moment.

Alessandra did describe the guy as being rather stocky and she assumed he was young judging by how quickly he bounded up the stairs.

Long and short of it, Alessandra didn't have anything of any importance to add to the murder mystery.

Grinder · Aug 30, 2015

It seems hard to know when she first told the police she had seen something unless we have it from her. Anyway the date comes from amndaknoxcase.com

And below is the start of her March 2008 testimony:

Here's the link http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...-Fernandez-de-Calle-Quintavalle-Angelucci.pdf

I gave you through p26 of her testimony

Grinder · Aug 30, 2015

Found this:

go to the car, it has not been very precise questions from the prosecutor and asked the location of this broken-down car. We have all this where is the counterpoint, which is located in front of the house of the crime. This car where it was?
AF:
More in the parking lot, just the counterpoint between the entry and parking, facing each other, more toward the parking lot.
LM:
Thus taking on the right the house of the crime, the car was on the right or on the left?
AF:
Keeping the house on the right?

Since the car broke down at 10:30 it would appear that whoever said the bumping happened at 10:30 was correct as she was home shortly after 11.

This is the only reference to a receipt I was able to find. A bit confusing as it is in the middle of talking about her interview.

So we want to say that the witness indicates the inspector Napoleoni ...
GCM:
It is public. Excuse how many people were present when she made the summary information, said two people now?
AF:
No, because there was also, I have always seen the team consists of four people, two women and two men.
GCM:
So when you?
AF:
I have spoken with the blonde, then wrote Ms. blackberry.
GCM:
How many people were in the room?
AF:
There were two men, do not know the names, they came and went and came and went.
GCM:
So there were two men, then there was an officer who was questioning, another, more police who was present, and wrote. It is so short?
AF:
Yes, yes, I remember that I had with me a receipt that evening, so as to witness the time when I was out.
GCM:
I want to know how many people were in the room.
LM:
Last thing. This journalist knew then her phone number?
AF:
He called me on the mobile phone.
LM:
So he had been provided to this reporter on his cell phone number?
AF:
Somebody gave him my cell phone number.
LM:
And this reporter said it had been the squad to provide the mobile phone number?
AF:
I told him, but how did you know? He said: I know that you have filed voluntarily. I did: It is true.

Most interesting is that the cops gave Sabrina AF's phone number.

And for all the conspiracy advocates - AF the sound Meredith made while dying...

ETA - as far as I can tell there is no information as to when she first contacted the police.

Ken Dine · Aug 30, 2015

Grinder said:
It seems hard to know when she first told the police she had seen something unless we have it from her. Anyway the date comes from amndaknoxcase.com

And below is the start of her March 2008 testimony:

Here's the link http://www.amandaknoxcase.com/wp-co...-Fernandez-de-Calle-Quintavalle-Angelucci.pdf

I gave you through p26 of her testimony

The problem with Knox's site is that it doesn't prompt my Chrome browser to do the translation as the transcript at the 'Guilter' site had done.

Also, the Knox case doesn't tell you which attorney is asking questions, just that it's a question, for example, this is where Mignini chimes in to tell her what she originally said she had for dinner that night:

MIGNINI is asking the questions in this part of her testimony:

QUESTION - What do you order?

ANSWER - Then I remember I ate the dumplings, or
gnocchi or risotto made with wine Sagrantino, then ...

QUESTION - You do not remember exactly?

RESPONSE - A detail that after a year do not ...

QUESTION - You said, if now you remember, 12 November always in the statements made to the squad, you ate an appetizer grilled vegetables and two first courses of dumplings. Then you have consumed a chocolate cake inside?
{{{BURP}}}

ANSWER - Yes.

QUESTION - Do you remember now?

ANSWER - I patty[cake] no more, I confirm.

Clearly, Nov 12th 2007 was her first contact with the police!

You can't make this stuff up, what a hoot!

Kauffer · Aug 30, 2015

Numbers said:
For those interested in the legal aspects of the Amanda Knox - Raffaele Sollecito case:

ECHR case: PARRILLO v. ITALY [GC] 46470/11 27/08/2015

While the matter at issue in the above case has no relevance to the AK - RS case, there are statements from the ECHR in the judgment that are important to that case and to other cases in Italy. Here are some:

1. The Italian Constitutional Court (which is an entirely separate body from the CSC, the Supreme Court of Cassation) in its judgments nos. 348 and 349 of 24 October 2007 ruled that the European Convention of Human Rights was in a position above ordinary Italian laws but below the Italian Constitution. Therefore, it was incumbent on the judges of the ordinary courts to interpret domestic law in a manner compliant with the Convention on Human Rights and the Court’s case-law. The Italian Constitutional Court stated that where such an interpretation was impossible or the ordinary court had doubts as to the compatibility of domestic law with the Convention, it was bound to raise a question of constitutionality before it. (para. 88-89)

2. Regarding the possibility of an applicant bringing an appeal on the constitutionality of a law or (by my extension) an action of Italian authorities to the Constitutional Court (an argument used by the Italian government to claim that the applicant had not exhausted domestic remedies, as required by the Convention), the ECHR stated that it observes that generally litigants are not entitled to appeal directly to the Constitutional Court. Therefore, such an application cannot be a remedy whose exhaustion is required under the Convention (para. 101).

Perhaps the big issue for the AK - RS case from the above is the failure of the ordinary Italian courts to have interpreted Italian law and the actions of Italian authorities with respect to the Convention, as required by Italian Constitutional Court judgments nos. 348 and 349 of 24 October 2007.

This is rather interesting. The decision of the ECHR in this case on this point was:

Decision of the Court
Admissibility – exhaustion of domestic remedies
The Italian Government alleged that Ms Parrillo ought to have used a remedy providing for a review of constitutionality, which was introduced in Italy in 20075. The Court welcomed, in this new form of review, the encouragement given by the Constitutional Court to the national judicial authorities to interpret domestic standards and the Constitution in the light of the European Convention on Human Rights and the Court’s case-law. However, it noted, on the one hand, that the Italian system provided only for indirect application by individuals to the Constitutional Court and, on the other, that it had not been shown, through established case-law and practice, that, where the donation of embryos to research was concerned, an action by Ms Parrillo before the ordinary courts to raise a question of constitutionality before the Constitutional Court in the light of the Convention would have amounted to an effective remedy. In consequence, it could not be claimed that Ms Parrillo ought to have exhausted this remedy.

http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/app/conve...tro fertilisation to scientific research .pdf

-----

The claim by the Italian government was outrageous. As Numbers has pointed out, judges in all courts below the constitutional court have been obliged to interpret all laws in a convention compliant manner. But, additionally, if they are unable to do this - in other words, if a reading of the law makes it impossible to interpret it in such a manner - they are obliged to refer the law to the constitutional court who will then render a final decision as to whether it can, in fact, be interpreted compliantly. If it cannot, then it must be struck down. In attempting to shift the burden of questioning and establishing the constitutionality of a law to a claimant or defendant, the government was effectively arguing that the duties imposed upon the judges of the lower courts are not actually duties at all.

Ken Dine · Aug 30, 2015

Grinder said:
ETA - as far as I can tell there is no information as to when she first contacted the police.

You must be in denial, since throughout her testimony they only refer back to what she had told the police on Nov 12th, without a single reference to any earlier talks that she may have had with the police:

AF: A distracted person who is not aware of who has front and bumps, but slightly, that is that he did it with violence.

LM: She tells [us] today after 16 months from the fact, however, 12 November 2007 if the things she remembered a lot better, because she had gone that day to testify voluntarily. Told the squad: as I descended the stairs, my boyfriend was forcefully struck by a black man, who was running in a very fast way to Pinturicchio. His reading these statements would seem that her boyfriend was forcefully struck by a black person, we mean black skin.
AF: So accurate, it's a shoulder.

LM: But she said: Violently. 10 days after the events, on 12 November 2007, you spoke of a severe impact. It was violent and was not violent, it was true what she said that day or not it was true. It has been reported hurt or was reported false. Then tell us the facts as they occurred, and why she signed the report of ...?

AF: It's about a...

GCM: Sorry, we come to the question. Then she remembers that clash and while we have learned that the collision has occurred between this guy and her boyfriend?

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Alessandra_Formica's_Testimony

acbytesla · Aug 30, 2015

Ken Dine said:
Out of curiosity I read her testimony this morning:

Testimony of Alessandra Formica:

http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Alessandra_Formica's_Testimony

From the Massei Transcripts (Italian - view the above page with the Chrome browser to read it easily in English)

The first the police heard from her was when Alessandra voluntarily appeared and first gave her statement to deputy commissioner Napoleoni, on November 12, 2007.

Alessandra's boyfriend was annoyed with her since he said they didn't see anything of importance, and of course, they forced the boyfriend to give a statement later, which is what really annoyed him.

Alessandra stated that she never saw the person's face and only noticed that his skin was darker than a European's skin, but she thought he could have been either African or Indian.

Alessandra was also vague as to the timing, either 10:00 or 10:30, or even later. She said she arrived home around 11:00 pm, and that home was a 15 minute car drive from the parking garage.

Alessandra saw a stalled car, which she described as a station wagon, The man was on his cell-phone and there was also a woman and a baby with him. She never saw a tow truck. She never noticed the cottage, nor heard anything unusual. She did say it was very cold that night, but couldn't remember if it rained.

Alessandra did have a restaurant receipt that she took with her to the station on the 12th, but the cops didn't seem interested in it and they told her she could throw it away, which she did. Surprising, none of the attorneys ever asked her if she remembered the time on the receipt, but there was a lot of discussion as to what she ate for dinner ...food must be a big deal in Italy.

It wasn't just Ghirga and all the attorneys were very interested in what Alessandra had for dinner (dumplings), and at one point, Mignini chimed in to correct Alessandra's recollection of her dinner fare by saying what she had told the police that she had eaten back on Nov 12th 2007 ...Italy is very, very strange.

Because Alessandra first came forward on the 12th, and since the police had already stated they were looking for a 4th "North African Musician" on the 10th, Alessandra obviously had nothing to do with the cops' earlier fixation on African suspects.

Also, clearly Guede wouldn't have bounded up those stairs since the stairs led in the opposite direction of the garden where Guede had chucked the phones around 10:00 pm.

For reference, the upper street reached by that stairway is Via Pinturicchio.

The bottom of the stairway is at the intersection of three streets, Via degli Scortici, Viale Sant’Antonio (the cottage is on Viale Sant’Antonio) and Via della Pergola. You can't see the cottage from the stairs, so Alessandra couldn't have known which direction the guy had come from.

To reach the garden where he chucked the phones, Guede would have gone in the opposite direction and headed down secluded Via della Pergola - here's Google's street view showing the bottom of the stairs:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.114...p_uetDurXyeXenzKi1Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Alessandra did describe the guy as being rather stocky and she assumed he was young judging by how quickly he bounded up the stairs.

Long and short of it, Alessandra didn't have anything of any importance to add to the murder mystery.

I know I'm going to sound like a wet blanket. BUT we will never know so many of these things. Whether they ran into Rudy that night or not. It's reasonable to believe that they did or they didn't, regardless of their testimony. We also don't actually know for sure if African like hairs had the police looking for an African man or not. Etc etc, etcetera.

I'm convinced that Rudy killed Meredith. Probably alone. I know there is not enough evidence to fill in the many details we have speculated about over the years and I'm convinced there never will be.

The only things that interest me about this case is NEW info. Which there is very little of. People can speculate all they want but I'm done with guessing. The best we can say about any of this is that some things most likely happend. We certainly can't prove with any real certainty any of our speculation.

I'm interested in the latest case against Amanda and the motivstion. I'm somewhat vicariously interested in what happens next for Amanda because I'm rooting for her.
I just read her latest contribution the West Seattle Herald. About Star Wars of all things.

The motivation can't come fast enough, not that I'm expecting any thing really new. It will just be good to read some legal sanity from Italy.

Vixen · Aug 30, 2015

anglolawyer said:
While Vixen is re-thinking the washing machine thing I was ruminating about her take on the bleach receipts which is, AIUI, that Richard Owen's story was true but the prosecution decided not to use the material because that's just the way things work. Prosecutors don't always use everything, she reasoned.

It occurred to me: might the public judges hearing the case alongside Massei also have entertained this ludicrous idea? Might they, too, have reasoned to themselves that there must be a good reason why they were not presented with evidence of a blood-soaked bathroom, bleach receipts and all the other lies spread around by the police and gobbled up by a credulous media? I think they might.

Vixen, it doesn't take a lawyer to understand that the bleach receipts would have been devastating had they ever existed and placed before the court. Here is the resulting testimony to make the point clear:

Mignini: Mr Quintavalle, I am handing you two receipts issued by your store showing that Amanda bought bleach on ..
Dalla Vedova : Excuse me, he is leading the ...
Bongiorno; This is impermissible!
Masseu: Please, please! Silence. Let's not have everyone talking at once. Will the Public Minister re-phrase his question?
Mignini: Mr Quintavalle, what can your say about these receipts?
Quintavalle: they show Amanda bought bleach on ..
Dalla Vedova: objection! The witness cannot say that
Bongiorno: Mama mia, santissima!!
Massei: Silence! The witness will confine his answers to matters within his own knowledge!
Mignini: do you recognise these receipts?
Quintavalle: yes
Mignini: where do they come from?
Quintavalle: my store
Mignini: do they bear dates and times?
Quintavalle: yes
Mignini: what are they?
Quintavalle: 8.30 and 9.15 a.m. on 2nd November 2007
Mignini: do those times suggest anything to you?
Quintavalle: yes, it was at those times that I sold bleach to her (pointing)
Dalla Vedova: objection! He cannot possibly know what time he sold bleach. Where is that in his written deposition?
Mignini: Sacre bleu! Can I proceed without all these interruptions? That was to be my next question, darn it!
Massei: Proceed. Sit down counsellor.
Mignini: how can you be sure of the times? Did you wear a watch?
Quintavalle: as you know, nobody wears a watch in Perugia
Mignini: then?
Quintavalle: when I issued the first receipt the bells of St Michael chimed the half hour and I associated this with her blue eyes. I will never forget that moment.
Mignini: and the second?
Quintavalle: the same - except it was the church of St Anthony ringing the quarter hour
Bongiorno: where is the evidence that church bells sound the quarter hour?
Commodi: We got that base covered, babe. We will prove with incontrovertible evidence that this church was running quarter of an hour late, or possibly early, with its bell-ringing.
Mignini: you keep referring to 'her'. Who do you mean?
Quintavalle: (pointing) she over there - the one with the T-shirt that says 'olla you needa eesa luva'
Mignini: thank you. That will be all except for one last question.
Quintavalle ?
Mignini: why are we conducting this exchange in English?
Quintavalle: ya got me there, bub.

See?

PS, as a person with literary connections, could you let me know whether my reconstruction has any merit, perhaps as a pilot for a dramatisation of the trial? Shoot me a PM if you think I could benefit by talking to your agent.

AIUI Quintavalle's till was taken away for POS analysis, so no receipts needed, anyway. Anyway, when buying from a corner shop, quite often it just says, "grocery item".

As to literary merit: "could do better". Sacre bleu is French and you need to expand by 75K words. Could work as a franglais patische. Nous anglaises jamais fatiguez de franglais tres hilarious.

Vixen · Aug 30, 2015

LondonJohn said:
FYI: it contains no additional numbers. It's a standard UK 11-digit number (five-digit area code followed by 6-digit number), preceded by "0044" (the access code for the UK from Italy - the "00" is the Italy int'l dialling code, and the "44" is the UK access code).

The area code is for the area around Brentwood in Essex (a satellite suburban region on the North-East outskirts of London).

But there I think things should stop..........

Um, you don't live in Essex do you? No, me neither, so Zephyrfoulmouth can say his or her venom.

Vixen · Aug 30, 2015

Bill Williams said:
Vixen - if you actually understand the immorality of lying, why do you do it so much?

Takes one to know one. Check out commandment # 8 (or was it 9?).

Vixen · Aug 30, 2015

acbytesla said:
Huh? We've poven over and over your countless fabrications. So you think you would recognize a lie, but I'm not sure you would recognize the truth if your legs were wrapped around it. So how could you recognize a lie?

If a sex-obsessed scoundrel says so, it must be true. What's in it for you, Dr Tesla? Perhaps one day, Raff and Amanda will thank you personally. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Vixen · Aug 30, 2015

Grinder said:
I just reviewed the trial reports at Amandaknoxcase.com and every one of them except Matteini spell Guede's first name with an "I". It seems clear that his legal name in Italy is spelled with an "I" and that the person convicted was Rudi not Rudy.

If a German named Günther is convicted under the name Gunther here in the US would it be okay to refer to him as Gunther?

Btw, Bill how many "Y's" are there in Massei? The Italian version of course.

Rudy's legal name is what's on his birth certificate.

Bill Williams · Aug 30, 2015

Vixen said:
Takes one to know one. Check out commandment # 8 (or was it 9?).

You are, if nothing else, a moving target.

I was commenting on your post:

As Schopenhauer famously said, the English are the only nation that has a thorough understanding of the immorality of lying.

You then called Amanda and Raffaele compulsive liars. What you have not done is list any of the lies they may have told. You just assume what you've been told.

I'll give you a hint. The Machine/Harry Rag once described the lies as he saw them. He actually went to the trouble to actually document his claim - quite unlike many guilters, yourself included.

I can list those claims of lies if you wish. The problem with the list is that they, in the main, concern Raffaele saying things from detention when it was not clear to him what the PLE were claiming he'd done.

In short - it's confirmation bias. If one starts with the assumption that they are killers, then perhaps all those things are lies. Start with any other assumption.... well, you get my dirft.

Which apparently you won't because your place here is simply to hurl invective, and ad hominem, as I expect you will in response to this.

Grinder · Aug 30, 2015

acbytesla said:
I know I'm going to sound like a wet blanket. BUT we will never know so many of these things. Whether they ran into Rudy that night or not. It's reasonable to believe that they did or they didn't, regardless of their testimony. We also don't actually know for sure if African like hairs had the police looking for an African man or not. Etc etc, etcetera.

I'm convinced that Rudy killed Meredith. Probably alone. I know there is not enough evidence to fill in the many details we have speculated about over the years and I'm convinced there never will be.

The only things that interest me about this case is NEW info. Which there is very little of. People can speculate all they want but I'm done with guessing. The best we can say about any of this is that some things most likely happend. We certainly can't prove with any real certainty any of our speculation.

I'm interested in the latest case against Amanda and the motivstion. I'm somewhat vicariously interested in what happens next for Amanda because I'm rooting for her.
I just read her latest contribution the West Seattle Herald. About Star Wars of all things.

The motivation can't come fast enough, not that I'm expecting any thing really new. It will just be good to read some legal sanity from Italy.

There has been a lot of new stuff available recently. I say stuff because it doesn't necessarily prove things. Testimony that Amanda described as so far from the truth she didn't recognize it, is like those tab stories. Can we believe anything said by Filomena or Laura after they had joined the defense team?

Nothing Stef determined can be believed either because of incompetence or lying. Personally I would hope that they did find African hairs and used the find to focus their investigation. We have yet to see anything that proves or even comes close to proving they had that focus early or ever. It is interesting that Giobbi didn't say anything about the hairs leading them to find a black suspect, or that none of the ILE bragged about it.

I look forward to seeing some of the earliest statements translated by someone besides Mr. Google.

Because of this case I'm more interested in the ECHR in general and will be watching for any ruling they make on the case.

anglolawyer · Aug 30, 2015

Vixen said:
AIUI Quintavalle's till was taken away for POS analysis, so no receipts needed, anyway. Anyway, when buying from a corner shop, quite often it just says, "grocery item".

No, you are forgetting. Richard Owen wrote about timed receipts for bleach. Therefore, there were timed receipts for bleach - according to you.

As to literary merit: "could do better". Sacre bleu is French and you need to expand by 75K words. Could work as a franglais patische. Nous anglaises jamais fatiguez de franglais tres hilarious.

Thanks! I will take this as a B+. I feel encouraged to ditch my job, sell my home and put everything into my new career as a French playwrite.

Grinder · Aug 30, 2015

Vixen said:
Rudy's legal name is what's on his birth certificate.

So he Rudy wasn't convicted only someone named Rudi?

Thousands of immigrants to the USA had their names changed at Ellis island. People change their names through the courts as well. Many people have legal names that don't match their birth certificate.

Bill Williams · Aug 30, 2015

Vixen said:
Rudy's legal name is what's on his birth certificate.

Unicef says that 66% of sub-Saharan births go unregistered. It is unknown if Rudy's is one of those. What's difficult is that absent any Côte d'Ivoire documentation, one can only fall back on Italian documentation.....

.... and has been pointed out, Italians have very uneven practise in the transliteration of names from places which does not share its alphabet.

Vixen · Aug 30, 2015

Grinder said:
Just can't resist, Bill. You gave us a lecture on the use of "I" in the Italian language as the reason they use "I" at the end of his first name. With your characteristically sweeping motion you made the categorical statement that they don't use the "I", unless they are anal retentive.

Now is Massei anal retentive? He does spell Guede's first name Rudi.

But alas he spells Lumumba's` first name Diya not Patrick or Patrik or Diia, Ooops. And the Kerchers have "Y's" in their names i.e. Lye(?), Mary and Ashley not Lie, Mari and Ashlei.

So maybe Diya and Rudi are their legal names.

AIUI "Diya" is a nickname. It is rather regrettable this creeping incursion of nicknames into legal documents. What next, One-Eye Slasher and Fingers Luigi versus the Italian State?

Vixen · Aug 30, 2015

RWVBWL said:
Fat Chance,
Ken Dine!!!

Grinder, Vixen and most anyone else
is not ever gonna admit to bein' wrong,
in my humble opinion...

I'm a bit sunburnt, even though I'm very tan,
but with our summer sun here in L.A. out in full force, + the water temp 72°
I rode some 50 odd waves today. Heck, I even got a few nose rides, on 1 The RW was even Hangin' 5,
those 5 toes were indeed curlin' over the nose, yeaaaa!

Afterwards,
it makes me think of The Grinder,
as he always helps keep us on our toes,
ya know?

That said,
who cares if Italy uses a i
but not an y in their vocabulary?

We have proof
yes indeed, real proof,
that Rudy Guede spells his 1st name with a y!
Not an i.

Get it?

It's very simple...

Look at how he signs his name.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=480&pictureid=10070[/qimg]

Not a ****in' i in there.

That said, my friends,
please do not ever Google my name.
For you'll also find, as I did years ago on the 3rd, 4rth or 5th page,
a hot lookin' chick who spells her name, the same name as my name - The RW,
with an i instead of a y.

What she does for a livin' is kinda gnarly.
Waaaay gnarlier than what I do to make some $$$ to feed myself.

That said though,
golly gee gosh, I wonder what I'd find if I Googled Grinder's real name???
An i instead of a y?

When folks do not spell Rudy's name properly as he himself does so,
well a person like me who also likes to discuss this case,
might wonder why?

Especially if the guy who does this,
always then demands perfection from us,
his fellow friends in debate...

With that said,
I luuuuv this from Moije2!!!:
Grynder.

RW

Hey ya'll,
we're all just pulling up a chair at the table,
ya know takin' time off from our real life, and sharin' a thought or 2.
Me, I usually always have a slap-happy grin on my face as I debate, Fulcanelli, err banned, TreeHorn, err banned,
Fiona, who ran away + hid out with the bunny's,
or Sillyho, or whatever his moniker was,
who has since disappeared from the debate
after The Italian Supreme Court ruling.

Hahahaha,
all you folks
were WRONG!!!

Doesn't matter how Rudy spells it. Re your hangin' 5's, can you do something about your hangin' modifiers? (But don't worry too much.)

I was baptised "Kristina". The registrar anglicised it to "Christina", a great source of shame and embarrassment as Finns hate the Swedes, and I have the Swedish spelling of my name...

Could have been worse, could have ben changed to "Christine", arghhh! <fx crucifix and garlic>

Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

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