Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[sept79]

Wow, that is ridiculous. So, at present. Amanda is not paying Lumumba waiting for the outcome of the ECHR? And she is unable to press her claim for 4 years of unjust imprisonment for as long as 7 years more? And that means she'll be about 40 when she might get paid? And in the mean time Mignini and his little gang of thugs are pursuing this absurdity about a slap? Italy is seriously screwed up.

Why is Italy pursuing this and the other slander/calunnia cases attached to this dreadful prosecution? It seems like it's warfare to them instead of the pursuit of justice . . .

 

[Kauffer]

Wow, that is ridiculous. So, at present. Amanda is not paying Lumumba waiting for the outcome of the ECHR? And she is unable to press her claim for 4 years of unjust imprisonment for as long as 7 years more? And that means she'll be about 40 when she might get paid? And in the mean time Mignini and his little gang of thugs are pursuing this absurdity about a slap? Italy is seriously screwed up.

Well, maybe by the time she's 35.

It's interesting because Italy will want this to go away, yet it cannot give Amanda what she wants in a friendly settlement - an exoneration. For there to be an exoneration, the case has to go before the judiciary again. But it cannot go before the judiciary without a finding of an unfair trial violation by the ECHR. It's tortuous. The whole thing should be capable of being settled promptly. The positive aspect of this is that an ECHR judgement, as opposed to a friendly settlement, will likely produce real and measurable change in Italy.

 

[Kauffer]

Why is Italy pursuing this and the other slander/calunnia cases attached to this dreadful prosecution? It seems like it's warfare to them instead of the pursuit of justice . . .

There are two different entities involved in these matters: Italy, the sovereign nation and the Italian judiciary including the prosecutor and also the plaintiffs. At the ECHR, Italy the sovereign nation is supposed to defend itself, by standing up for the actions of these people. It's quite the tension.

 

[NancyS]

Do you think blaming the victim by suggesting it was normal to assume Meredith had left menstrual blood on the carpet and didn't clean, was a model of grace too?

This has made me laugh a lot

Aren't you the one that likes to imply that Meredith rarely washed her bra and didn't mind sleeping and didn't mind sleeping on a pillow covered in semen?

 

[acbytesla]

Hi AC. Agreed in general.

I would just like to point out the danger in the hi-lited part. Of course Mignini and cohorts must have a lot of time on their hands to pursue this silly last ditch effort to stick something - anything it appears - to AK. I have been guilty in the past of saying "Italy" when it is particular players involved that deserve criticism. This is the part that I imagine rankles Machiavelli, and I understand it. There are many fine people in Italy so we should exercise caution in this regard. MOO.

Another topic.

I find interesting how much devotion Machiavelli has to Mignini and the ILE. Not one word of criticism. Yet he is merciless with his derogatory libelous comments of many of the Supreme Court justices. One would hope, as an insider to the Italian courts, that he can somehow translate part of his energy into reform of the system which he finds intolerable. It must be painful to live under a system you despise so much. And for him it is not just this case, but every other case affecting the thread and fabric of life in his country.

I wouldn't expect anything resembling an honest or balanced approach from Mach. That ship sailed a long time ago.

BTW, When I say "Italy is seriously screwed up I'm not talking about everyone and everything. Just this is ridiculous. Discretion and practicality should mean something. Don't the Italian people realize that all this nonsense is expensive?

 

[RWVBWL]

Here's an interesting posting found at Mikey'sdotnutz site:

Gianfranco Lauretano writes in a post on Il sussidiario:

MEREDITH TRIAL/The strange Italy where everyone has been wrong except Amanda
Therefore, to summarize for those who do not understand the language of jurisprudence, the Supreme Court said that those who conducted an investigation had no evidence, that investigators had amnesia and were capable of 'guilty' (sic) omissions, and there was also condemnation for feeding the international public opinion.

I'm sorry, but this is stuff from a Banana Republic. Ask yourself a few questions: but what will become of them now [what will happen to them], a pm capable of 'omissions' and those judges who convict influenced by media hype (media hype that we don't feel the need to condemn completely, because at least in this case, we became aware of an unjust judicial path to an unprecedented degree)? Rhetorical question: nothing. But are they still working (employed)?

http://www.ilsussidiario.net/News/C...e-tutti-hanno-sbagliato-tranne-Amanda/636547/

 

[RWVBWL]

Reading around abit
as I watch the worlds best surfers battle it out on a simply gorgeous beach day here in Southern California down at a surfspot called Lower Trestles, where the comp is live right now(*):


Greyhawker @ Injustice in Perugia:
Wow. Skimming the first section and a few others, the ISC validated C-V, blasted Stefanoni, blasted the witnesses, blasted the forensic investigators, blasted the interrogators, blasted the prosecutors. But for some reason left the calumny charge? Saw several references to the EcHR and the ECJ.

Takes fewer pages to tell the truth in a decision compared to the number of pages to twist a lie.

A couple of other points - thought break in real. Thought Guede played with phone. Thought police computer expert an amateur. Thought clean up impossible. Did not see TMB reference but could have been buried deeper.

Biggest point against Magnini and Stefanoni - failure to test semen stain on pillow.

* * *

Here's that pillow stain that Miss Kercher was possibly,
according to Italian investigators,
sleeping on.

Or was she?

Was this stain
+ another 1 found by Crime Scope,
from the night of Miss Kercher's rape + murder?

Dr. Stefanoni!!!
Test the damn seminal fluid,
err probable seminal fluid already!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlXKyMh48KQ&app=desktop

It seems like,
as noted in my last posting above,
that some in Italy are publicly questioning the work standards of Patrizia Stefanoni and Guilano Mignini.
Heck are they still working???

I hope that due to your incompetence,
that you Dr. Steffie are soon out of a job...
Ol' PM Mignini?
Go straight to jail,
please...

My 2¢ only,
RW


(*) - Wanna watch The Best Surfers in the World competing live?:
http://www.worldsurfleague.com/events/2015/mct/1281/hurley-pro-at-trestles/live

 

[RWVBWL]

I have sisters.
Like Lyle Kercher has,
err had too.

1 of Lyle Kercher's sisters was raped + murdered.

If 1 of my sisters was raped + murdered,
I'd be screamin' out loud,
TEST the Semen Stain!

Ah,
Test Both Stains!
Not just the 1 seen on the edge of Mez's pillow case.

TEST the 1 probable seminal fluid stain that Rudy Guede stepped in elsewhere
but then left as another 1 of his sneaker imprints next to Meredith's naked left hip.

Here is a pic or 2 of Rudy Guede's shoe imprint,
from stepping in a probable seminal fluid puddle elsewhere
and then stepping on Meredith's pillow near her hip:

Come on Lyle Kercher!
Step up,
bro.

You wanna know The Truth?
Can you, Lyle Kercher, handle The Truth?

Scream it out loud for ALL of Italy to hear!
Test the damn semen stain!

The 1 Rudy Guede stepped in!!!

 

[codyjuneau]

Notary and Certified General Accountant Mignini

.
While Mignini is on the stand, I really hope he explains when it was that he made the decision to not record the 'interviews' of Amanda, Raffaele, and Lumumba because of budgetary concerns.

Cody
.

 

[RWVBWL]

.
While Mignini is on the stand, I really hope he explains when it was that he made the decision to not record the 'interviews' of Amanda, Raffaele, and Lumumba because of budgetary concerns.

Cody
.

Hahaha!
The PM musta had a talk with the accountin' department right before he went in to Notarize Miss Knox at 3:00am on an early Tuesday mornin' with some 12 detectives + cops ready to serve up tea and croissants while they simply chatted with Miss Knox, who was surely uncomfortable being there late at night due to havin' feminine issues.

When foreigner Miss Amanda Knox still was not a suspect.
But a murderous suspect was still at large, 1 who had scared the **** outta the local population and sent foreign students fleeing already.

Golly gee,
the pressure musta been so high to solve this brutal rape + murder crime veeeery quickly,
a surfer dude might think.

Question?
What about [SIZE="-7"]Raffaele Sollecito[/SIZE]?
Why didn't he get any tea + snacks?

Nor did he get a lawyer either,
no, no, no, not until after he was arrested + imprisoned,
right?

Same **** happened to Patrick Lumumba,
even though he was surely as suspect when the cops barged in and arrested him, right?
Tea and croissants?
Nope.

Plus ol' Patrick Lumumba,
he gots to get some 10 hours of interrogation, err chatting,
all without a lawyer!

No food. No lawyer.
For over 10 hours?
Not a suspect?
Pfffft.



How the ****
can smart Italians believe Mignini's bull crap?


Was it in PM Mignini's job description to also be a Notary Public?
In my sufer mind, how un-becomin' of a PM!!!
Machiavelli's opinion might differ though,
hahahaha.

Weird how all the Italian surfers that I've met over the last 7 some odd years knew the Amanda Knox case was bull crap.
No way Italian surfers are smarter than the local Italian citizenry, right?

 

[anglolawyer]

If we are bringing the accounting department into it, maybe someone could ask where that €189,000 spent on the bogus cartoon went.

 

[Planigale]

Except the idiot failed even to get this one right. The ECHR doesn't care about so-called "spontaneity." All it cares about is whether there has been a knowing and intentional waiver of the right to counsel. Ordinarily, this requires the suspect to have had access to counsel in order to make an informed waiver. At the very least, you would have thought that Mignini would have written on the bottom of the "statement": "I have been informed of my right to counsel and with full appreciation of my rights, I hereby waive my right to counsel." But, he wasn't that smart, so all we have is a signed statement, which on its face is violative of Knox's right to counsel.

I think the giveaway is that Mignini continued to deny Knox (and Sollecito) access to counsel. It is clear that his pretending to be a notary (Knox says she did not know who he was, so any refusal of counsel was invalid as she did not know she was talking to the public prosecutor) was a ruse to interview Knox without giving a 'caution', and without access to counsel. It was part of a continuing pattern of behaviour. Mignini knows he behaved improperly which is why he claims that he hadn't decided if she was a suspect yet. The ECHR I suspect would take the view that if there is doubt about whether the interviewed person is a suspect or not (i.e. they are suspected of being a suspect) they should be given benefit of the doubt.

 

[Vixen]

Hi Vixen,
Are you an author of any of the books written about this murder case we discuss?
Just curious...

No.

 

[Vixen]

But normal people, in that situation - that includes knowing that Meredith would not leave menstrual blood and not clean, since that was something unacceptable to her and at odds with her behaviour - would start to get worried that someone could be injured.

However, Knox intended to tell a story where she was not worried, in no hurry, she took a shower and took her time.

Incidentally, and subconsciously, she felt the typical, psychological need of the guilty to "blame the victim" (of something that was likely at the root of the beginning of Meredith's dislike of Knox and subsequent building of some grudge).

To think she stood in the witness box knowing it was Mez' life blood ebbed away and said,"Ew".

So don't do it.

 

[Vixen]

Bolding mine. Do you see the problem here? Amanda Knox can't be held responsible for what Meredith said to her British friends. She reports that she and Meredith did have a conversation about using the brush every time she used the toilet. She reports this conversation without rancor or resentment.

No malice.

Your grand unified theory of the crime requires a leap of logic -- that because Meredith talked to her friends about Amanda, it follows that Amanda knew of these conversations and resented them. And yet there's not one word out of her mouth or her pen to that effect. You know there isn't.

That's why you have to stoop to interpreting her plain English (she thought the blood smears might be from M's period) as an attempt to trash talk her housemate (Meredith was the real slob!). It's absurd.

By the way, another lovely early fall day here in Seattle today. I'm sure Amanda enjoyed it and didn't waste a moment wondering why so many people are still working so hard to find malice in her. That she's managed to hang onto her spirit of optimism and generosity in the face of so much unjust and nasty nonsense is incredible.

And no doubt loving the chaos and disruption caused by hers and Raff's psychopathic behaviour.

 

[Vixen]

Machiavelli ‏@Machiavelli_Aki 6h6 hours ago Imola, Emilia Romagna

#calunnia trial of #amandaknox in #Florence: Mignini said Knox was not clearly a suspect to him by the 05:45 interrogation.


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You do not understand how Italian law works. Mignini was talking about being a formal suspect, as opposed to the colloquial version of the word.

 

[LondonJohn]

To think she stood in the witness box knowing it was Mez' life blood ebbed away and said,"Ew".

So don't do it.

What she knew in hindsight is of no relevance whatsoever, if she was being asked to recall what she thought and felt at the time.

And it's Mez's, not Mez'. In fact, it's Meredith's or Kercher's or Miss Kercher's

 

[LondonJohn]

You do not understand how Italian law works. Mignini was talking about being a formal suspect, as opposed to the colloquial version of the word.

I know very well how Italian law works, thanks. And I know exactly what deliberate trick Mignini was pulling. Obviously it goes over the heads of credulous and/or stupid observers though.

 

[LondonJohn]

And no doubt loving the chaos and disruption caused by hers and Raff's psychopathic behaviour.

What a very unpleasant and misanthropic thing to say. Disgraceful.

 

[Vixen]

Well, if Amanda was involved in the murder, as Mach believes, it would have been a disgusting statement (sort of - according to ones view of perfectly natural human functions) to attribute the blood in the bathroom to the victim's menstruation, being untruthful and sort of smutty, but if she wasn't then it's nothing more than a reasonable account of her own explanation to herself of the presence of blood there. The judges have finally held in favour of innocence (with, if one believes Mach, a far more disgusting gloss on their judgment than anything Amanda said) so I guess we have the last word.

So we are talking past each other here it seems.

By the time she was in the witness box, she knew it was Mez' life blood snuffed out. So saying "Ew" shows what a nasty cold-blooded character she is.