Continuation Part 18: Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito

[Vixen]

The length of the call is once it is connected, not the time it has rung. If a phone is out of service you get a recorded message stating so, and this is the length of the call. Some people will obviously hang up as soon as the message starts.

Similarly this will happen when calls go to voicemail.

Yes and if you look at the logs you'll see they lasted as little as 1 second and 4 seconds.

 

[Mr Fied]

Yes and if you look at the logs you'll see they lasted as little as 1 second and 4 seconds.

Yes, If the recorded message starts you hang up as the phone is out of service, could be turned off, have no signal, run out of battery etc.

 

[Vixen]

Michael Chamberlain, accused of murder then cleared of his daughter's dingo-death, said it best. Something akin to, only the falsely accused can know what a precious thing innocence is.

Exoneration can only begin the process of healing and battling PTSD. However, I would argue that wrongful convictions damage the victim's family perhaps more. In this case the Kerchers' have been through a hell which not many can comprehend.

He was a religious extremist. It's his right, but you can hardly blame the cops for considering the disappearance of Azaria in the Australian desert with just a blood soaked cloth left behind suspicious, when the pair had highlighted in yellow aspects of the Old Testament referring to child sacrifice.

 

[Vixen]

Yes, If the recorded message starts you hang up as the phone is out of service, could be turned off, have no signal, run out of battery etc.

Amanda was so worried about Mez, she had no time to leave a message, "call me"?

ETA it wasn't out of service as Mez' father rang through several times afterwards, so obviously there was a connection for it to be recorded.

 

[Bill Williams]

He was a religious extremist. It's his right, but you can hardly blame the cops for considering the disappearance of Azaria in the Australian desert with just a blood soaked cloth left behind suspicious, when the pair had highlighted in yellow aspects of the Old Testament referring to child sacrifice.

So - convicting people on the basis of suspicions, as well as on their religious extremism. Ok, we have your opinion.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes and if you look at the logs you'll see they lasted as little as 1 second and 4 seconds.

And what does that tell you? Anything? Since I don't find it informative.

 

[Vixen]

..... penance is a cheque made out to me, in Euros, so that I can pay off js202 for my past and present transgressions - with a wee bit left over because Hawaii is nice this time of year.

Martin Luther did famously say, "all men are beggars".

 

[Mr Fied]

You are astoundingly bad at law if you don't realise the Bruno-Marasca report is not an exoneration for Amanda. Far from it.

It is a fact Mez' snubbed Amanda halloween.

Read the text message.

Your logical fallacy consists of applying insults and ad hominem.

No, it is your view that it was a snub.

The question was what are you doing tonight, do you want to meet?

I would read this as, if you have no plans do you want to meet.

Meredith had other plans, not exactly a snub.

 

[acbytesla]

Sackcloth and ashes. Presumably you've been reading the pro-Knox translation..

Are you saying that in the translation you've been reading it doesn't say the defendants "did not commit the act"?

hmmmmmm.

 

[Vixen]

So - convicting people on the basis of suspicions, as well as on their religious extremism. Ok, we have your opinion.

Yeah, cops are a horrible suspicious bunch, eh?

 

[Mr Fied]

Amanda was so worried about Mez, she had no time to leave a message, "call me"?

ETA it wasn't out of service as Mez' father rang through several times afterwards, so obviously there was a connection for it to be recorded.

What did Meredith's father get through to? Voicemail or the recorded message?

 

[Vixen]

What did Meredith's father get through to? Voicemail or the recorded message?

So Amanda can't get through to Mez, yet casually tells the cops her door is always locked. No panic there.

How did she know Mez was dead?

 

[Kauffer]

I'm searching the links right now. Ok, here's one..... Sept 2017 issue of la Repubblica. Damn, ISF will not link to it....

Ok, truly though, I see no upside for the ECHR to do anything on this. It will be purely a political thing, probably already getting some traction in the hallways and corridors of Strasbourg. Numbers, and others, disagree and think it's a slam dunk.

Bill, have you seen the guidance on this from the ECHR? You don't even need a law degree. To side with the Italians would reverse more than a decade of case law. Additionally, there is volume of academia on the subject. Start with this:

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/case-watch-salduz-fever-sweeps-europe

Marion Isobel is very good indeed.

The only thing the ECHR could do to avoid dealing with this is to not admit the case. But they will, Bill. Trust me - they will. It would have been kicked out by now, if not.

 

[Mr Fied]

So Amanda can't get through to Mez, yet casually tells the cops her door is always locked. No panic there.

How did she know Mez was dead?

No, the question was, what did Meredith's father connect to?

Obviously nobody answered the phone, so for the calls to be recorded as you say, he must have either connected to her voicemail or the recorded message that the phone was unreachable.

Oh, just to answer your question that had nothing to do with mine, Amanda did not know she was dead until the door was broken down and the body found.

 

[Bill Williams]

Bill, have you seen the guidance on this from the ECHR? You don't even need a law degree. To side with the Italians would reverse more than a decade of case law. Additionally, there is volume of academia on the subject. Start with this:

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/case-watch-salduz-fever-sweeps-europe

Marion Isobel is very good indeed.

The only thing the ECHR could do to avoid dealing with this is to not admit the case. But they will, Bill. Trust me - they will. It would have been kicked out by now, if not.

Admittedly, I do not have the knowledge of ECHR issues or precedent, esp. compared to yourself and Numbers.

Since this case was fumbled by all of police, prosecutors, and courts - only to have the lunacy stopped by the Marasca court - at every step of the way, one hoped that someone would have stepped in to say, "Look, there's no case here."

This case and series of ludicrousities always should have had the logical outcomes applied, but here we are?

Is the ECHR really that much different? (For predictive value, that is?)

 

[bagels]

Vixen did you ever watch the BBC show "Connections" with James Burke? I was just thinking how a bunch of fatheaded Italian cops standing next to a broken window wrongfully concluding, "well no mere human could climb into a window" spun a web that would eventually lead to a small group of people talking about text messages 8 years later. Isn't that interesting?

 

[Kauffer]

Has a calunnia case ever been reversed after being upheld by the ISC? If there is such a history I would hope the IIP/FOA/PIP would source it and publicize it on their sites. They must have that information handy.

You mean reversed in a review of trial or reversed following an ECHR adjudication? Some other reason? Does the nature of the conviction matter? Reversal is a process.

We know there have been reversals of convictions in Italy following res judicata and new trials. It was quite the battle to ensure this could happen - a shake up of the justice system.

But I am not aware of a case involving callunia.

 

[Kauffer]

Admittedly, I do not have the knowledge of ECHR issues or precedent, esp. compared to yourself and Numbers.

Since this case was fumbled by all of police, prosecutors, and courts - only to have the lunacy stopped by the Marasca court - at every step of the way, one hoped that someone would have stepped in to say, "Look, there's no case here."

This case and series of ludicrousities always should have had the logical outcomes applied, but here we are?

Is the ECHR really that much different? (For predictive value, that is?)

Yep it is. There are difficult cases, which go before the ECHR where the court has ruled in a manner some would say is not appropriate, but on the protection of fundamental rights of suspects - lawyers, the right to silence, the inadmissibility of statements without benefit of counsel used to convict, it has developed very clear lines of approach. This is not a difficult case.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen did you ever watch the BBC show "Connections" with James Burke? I was just thinking how a bunch of fatheaded Italian cops standing next to a broken window wrongfully concluding, "well no mere human could climb into a window" spun a web that would eventually lead to a small group of people talking about text messages 8 years later. Isn't that interesting?

bagels, eight years later and not even the clowns Bruno and Marasca say Rudy shinned up he wall.

Even they, it seems, have a limit.

 

[bagels]

bagels, eight years later and not even the clowns Bruno and Marasca say Rudy shinned up he wall.

Even they, it seems, have a limit.

Yeah, what are the odds that at an apparent break-in at an upper story rock smashed window above climbable metal bars, multiple forensic traces were found of a guy who was linked by criminal evidence to a previous break-in at an upper story rock smashed window above climbable metal bars, and he was the one responsible for both break-ins? That's too crazy to even consider.