Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Well achimspok, it seems you've chosen the losing side of an argument again. Not that you don't argue well, because I think you do; but you're arguing for the weak ideas, the bad ideas, not the good ones.

I guess your contrarian side requires to to argue the opposing viewpoint from anyone whom you perceive supports the mythical 'official story'; it's not much different from any other ideological blinker methinks.

But it does put you in some really absurd positions, such as this one!! I feel for you.
 
Back to the framework.

Why do proponents of the official conspiracy narrative constantly quote Ockam's razor to support their theories?

This might be a good topic for a thread of its own, Quipro. On the other hand, maybe not. We're arguing with people who think that laws of physics and everyday physical principles are merely "truther talking points". :D

I actually haven't witnessed too many bedunkers using Occam's razor. Probably because they know they can't apply it to the vast majority of their arguments.
 
This might be a good topic for a thread of its own, Quipro. On the other hand, maybe not. We're arguing with people who think that laws of physics and everyday physical principles are merely "truther talking points". :D

I actually haven't witnessed too many bedunkers using Occam's razor. Probably because they know they can't apply it to the vast majority of their arguments.

Speaking of laws of physics I haven't seen anything in the official reports that defies the laws of physics but there is plenty of conspiracy folks like yourself claiming all sort of weird physics. Like crap flying up from 7 WTC and then down the face of Fitterman Hall. Or how about Chandler's laughable explosive rocket debris.
 
This might be a good topic for a thread of its own, Quipro. On the other hand, maybe not. We're arguing with people who think that laws of physics and everyday physical principles are merely "truther talking points". :D

I actually haven't witnessed too many bedunkers using Occam's razor. Probably because they know they can't apply it to the vast majority of their arguments.

An example of Truther investigation and verification at it's finest...
 
In real life complex and often unexplainable RANDOM events happen.
...
what are the odds of being struck by lightening 7X? astronomical. But it has happened. that is the problem with the appeal to probablilty arguments. Sometimes they happen.
I have a smaller problem to believe in the possibility of being struck by lightening 7 times than to believe in some atmospherical turbulence that fakes jumping time stamps into surveillance videos + fakes a double Atta + stops his baggage on the airport + changes "pilots uniforms" into "wedding suits" + hits the center column of a towers at 0° lateral + prevents the airforce being successful in one single case + let fly a passport out of the window + turned off transponders near invisible borders + changed FAA regulations + ignored PDBs + cars full of evidence ...

You can fill pages this way.

Each of these events is as possible as being struck by lightening 7X. Each of these events is man made and happened because someone wanted to let it happen.

The probability is a mathematical tool to quantify to occurance in a caotic nature (reality). Probability isn't just some random speculation. And therefore you can be 100% certain that 9/11 didn't happen that way. No freakin' way. Zero.
I know it, you know it, almost everybody knows it. How can I say so? Because if you distrust you feeling for the probability of things that may happen that much (enough to be able to believe in 9/11 as it was told) then you would be too paranoid to go acoss a street. You would expect airplanes exploding over your head and a new vulcano will grow beneath your feet at the very same moment and everytime on a daily basis.

9/11 didn't happen that way. Probability = Zero.
 
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No need to apologize. You need to have a thick skin if you want to discuss those topics. "WTC demolition" is a topic, isn't it? It isn't per se a
"...ridiculous and defamatory accusations of U.S. government complicity..."
....................If you do the math and calculate the probability of all the requirements of that event to occur then you will get something like infinite-1.
Theoretically that day never happened. What are we talking about?

It happened. Who did it?

Facts are;

Passenger aircraft have been hijacked dozens of times going back to the 1960's and in few instances did any of these get intercepted by fighter aircraft and in no cases at all did a fighter shoot down a hijacked aircraft.

There is at least one case of multiple near-simultaneous hijackings.

Suicide missions have been carried out both by individuals and as small forces of terrorists.

On 9/11 a terrorist organization simply combined all of the above using the aircraft themselves as the weapon.

The chances of this occuring in the next 5 years, I would have put at near 99% had I been asked on Sept 10/2001.

Even if the plan is thwarted and all 4 aircraft get shot down the terrorists still count a win and the probability of at least the first two aircraft getting through is near 100% given that the common hijacking m.o. is to make demands, not use the plane in a suicide crash.
The probability of the next two being shot down is decreased simply by not targeting the same city as the first two. Its a biiiiiig country, there is a plethora of targets and only so many interceptors. Even if you simply scramble every single (that are in fact armed and have a crew at the ready) you have where do you send them? How do you keep each squadron patrolling a separate area? If it takes 15 minutes to even identify a positive hijacking (given that the hijackers are not being too verbose about their intentions over the radio) and it is going to take 20 minutes to get the hijacked plane to target, you are going to have to be simply lucky to have afighter within 5 minutes of intercept, WITH instructions to shoot down.
, and note that none of the above requires a 'stand down' of the air forces)


YOU concentrate on minutia like a passport's survival or political expediencies carried out by (arguably) the worst and least intelligent, POTUS and his equally bad appointees.

I do note though that your post contains little or no MIHOP contentions and instead you are pushing only the idea that the attacks were allowed to occur.
Can we expect then that you are allowing that the aircraft were responsible for the destruction wrought on 9/11 and not explosives, thermite, or any of the more 'out-there' contentions?

It would be refreshing to have someone who at least acknowledges that their take on the events of 9/11 are all of a political nature.
 
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I have a smaller problem to believe in the possibility of being struck by lightening 7 times ..............

There you go. Such a thing has in fact occured despite the enormous odds agaisnt it. So even IF your contentions that the probability is too low were true, and they are not, you just provided a debunking of your own contention.
 
This might be a good topic for a thread of its own, Quipro. On the other hand, maybe not. We're arguing with people who think that laws of physics and everyday physical principles are merely "truther talking points".

Indeed no, physics and engineering are in fact debunker's tools that show the 9/11 conspiracists contentions to be in gross error.

I actually haven't witnessed too many bedunkers using Occam's razor. Probably because they know they can't apply it to the vast majority of their arguments.



Vast, complicated, Rube-Goldberg machinations by a shadow organization bent on world domination versus a quite simple plan to hijack 4 aircraft by 19 fanatics and use them as weapons against targets that are very large and easily identified from the air.
On which side of Occam's Razor do these two fall?
 
...
9/11 didn't happen that way. Probability = Zero.
You have paranoid conspiracy theories, failed debunked theories and not well defined. Kind of like Balsamo's "offer no theory" ploy while implying dirt dumb ideas. Balsamo is trying to make money selling lies like Gage; what are you doing? A least you can debunk CIT. We all have our limits. Your failed claims on 911, the CD delusion, are as bad as CIT's flyover delusions. ... great work debunking CIT, their videos also debunk them.

You have zero evidence to support your claim of zero. Is 911 too complex to figure out in 9 years? Flight 93 passengers figured it out in minutes, 911 truth failed in 9 years. The terrorists two step to murder; 1) take aircraft, 2) crash aircraft in to large building. Too complex for 911 truth to comprehend given the answers, tons of evidence, and over 9 years. Be all you can be; join 911 truth, attack NIST, with eternal failure guaranteed.
 
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Why do proponents of the official conspiracy narrative constantly quote Ockam's razor to support their theories?

I actually haven't witnessed too many bedunkers using Occam's razor. Probably because they know they can't apply it to the vast majority of their arguments.

Ah, the good old truther heads-i-win-tails-you-lose argument. If we quote Occam's Razor, then Ocham's Razor is inapplicable, but if we don't quote it then it's the sole arbiter of good arguments. Anything to avoid actual understanding of the issues, because who ever found the truth that way, right?

Dave
 
Originally Posted by jaydeehess
A reminder to bill, if you are back to posting any time soon I await the video of Robertson you said you would post as soon as Gourley puts it up.
It would be a pity if you lived down to expectations and did not post it, or Gourley never puts it up to back up his contentions about what Robertson actually says in the video.

A pity, but not unexpected.
Bill, are you not posting the link even though you said you would, or is this Gourley's fault for not yet putting this interview on his site?

If Gourley has posted it and you are not letting us know then why not? You asked me if I doubted you would when it was available. One would assume that you meant that you would indeed be doing so.

If Gourley is at fault for taking the last two months off then does this affect your estimation of him?

Anyone seen hide or hair of bill smith lately?
 
Considering this thread needed a bump and my comment doesn't really warrant a new thread.

Why the hell do "truthers" think we don't have an "open mind"? We listen and respond to all of their comments. We quote from a multitude of sources. I personally have never dismissed a claim without first going and checking the quotes back to the original source.

Who exactly has the "closed mind"? Would it be the one that looks at all the evidence or the one that looks at all the evidence from a certain source?

"Truthers"?
 
Considering this thread needed a bump and my comment doesn't really warrant a new thread.

Indeed it did need the bump. I was about to do so myself as is my habit for the last month or so, looking for bill to address his promise.

Why the hell do "truthers" think we don't have an "open mind"? We listen and respond to all of their comments. We quote from a multitude of sources. I personally have never dismissed a claim without first going and checking the quotes back to the original source.

Who exactly has the "closed mind"? Would it be the one that looks at all the evidence or the one that looks at all the evidence from a certain source?

"Truthers"?

My take is that the 9/11 conspiracy believers operate from a prejudged conclusion; that the events of 9/11 MUST have been something other than advertised.
They then look for evidence to support this conclusion and then treat it as no less equally valid as contrary evidence even if it clearly is (eyewitness sounds of explosions versus no audio recordings of sounds consistent with demolitions) OR simply ignore contrary evidence (Silverstein made millions from the insurance versus the fact that he has used ALL insurance proceeds towards rebuilding and has in fact lost money compared to his holdings on Sept 10th,2001)
They do this because of a political world view that demands that there is a shadowy underground world wide organization that is responsible for all major, and many minor, upheavals and incidents on Earth, even to the point of weather and natural disaster command and control (hurricanes and earthquakes for eg.)
 
I've finally got around to tweaking 911myths so the old HTML pages are no longer the default, and the MediaWiki-based site appears instead.

Why should you care? No reason at all, unless you have linked/ want to link in future to the site.

Previously, pointing people at www.911myths.com or www.911myths.com/index.html would send them to the HTML site, and you needed to use www.911myths.com/index.php to reach the other pages.

Now, www.911myths.com points at the MediaWiki site.

To reach the old site directly, use www.911myths.com/indexold.html (/index.html no longer exists).

Old page links (anything beginning www.911myths.com/html, like http://www.911myths.com/html/hijackers.html) will work just as they always did, at least for now.

Of course the newer links (anything beginning www.911myths.com/index.php, like http://www.911myths.com/index.php/Stand_Down) stay the same.

And that's about it. Although while I'm tweaking things, I do need to add a link to Mark for his "Not a demolition" video...
 
National September 11th Memorial Museum Online Timeline

The National September 11th Memorial Museum has launched an online timeline, using graphic video from the attacks on the World Trade Center.
The site features video of the towers collapsing, as well as recordings of victims' final phone calls and oral histories of survivors.

Source: NY1

Direct link to Online Timeline
 
Remember when Les Robertson, chief engineer for the building of the WTC said that he saw molten steel flowing under the Twin Towers ? And a little later he said that 'he could not recall' having made such a statement ? Well finally somebody has come up with the actual video. Great huh ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9EwRm2M1MY&feature=player_embedded

I knew when Les Robertson said that 'he could not recall' having made a statement that he had seen molten steel under the Towers that he was worried that somebody might have caught him on tape and so he didn't dare to flat-out deny it. Thus the mealy mouth.

He is evidently one of the top Shills as I have said all along and will certainly be arrested come the day. (See Alienentity's signature)

The fun part is that we can can now prove that Les lied about what he said. People are sure to want to know why he did that and we are ready willing and able to fill in the blanks for them very very convincingly.

You may think otherwise. You do your thing and we will do ours.

Well let's wait for this very important video clip to be released into the public domain. Then I assume you will teverse your opinion and see that Les Roberson is an obvious Shill.

Failing that I will be very interested in watching you duck and dive.

Four days now since A.Jones' interview with Gourley was posted to youtube.

I cannot find the video referred to by Gourley on his site yet. It takes kids in their basement less time to upload a video to youtube. Even if Gourley, as a busy lawyer, does not have time in his day to do it I would think that Jones, with this type of thing being actually what he does for a living, could have done it for Gourley. Surely Jones has an ftp site to which Gourley could post the video and someone at jonmes' office could post it to youtube. It would literally take minutes to accomplish.

Anyways,,,,,,,,,,, bill, you will be sure to post a link when (IF) this video ever does make it to the "public domain", right?
(Bolds below are mine)
Bill, will you commit to posting a link to the Robertson interview once Gourley gets around to providing it?
Come on, I double dogs dares ya.

Do you doubt that I will ?

That last quote from bill smith was on Nov 22/2010

While I know that bill has not posted for a couple months now and that there can be many valid reasons for that absence, I do indeed now doubt that bill will post the video.
 
This was in my inbox today.

Hello to all

I am requesting from any members who have the ability to publicly speak, do radio or write on issues of importance such as 911,Tyranny,Freedom,Media & Free Speech,current events, police state,endless wars, neo-cons, Federal Reserve etc.. Because there is a national effort we are about to launch and we need and want good,articulate, true,genuine,hard hitting people who can do the job the Tea Party isn't. So if you are up for battle and would like to know more, please contact me ASAP.
The inability of the truthy people to be concise continues to be a hindrance.
 
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