Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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Childlike Empress said:
Michael Chertoff questioned by CSPAN callers:

Funny how he immediately comes up with exactly the same disingenuous guilt-by-association-with-strawmen crap as the bottom-feeders in the debunking food chain on this forum do every day.
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It's not because you can't see the similarities between Holocaust denial (and pretty much any kind of denialism) and 9/11CTs, doesn't mean that there aren't. There are blatant similarities, they use the same rhetorical devices, they all commit the same fallacies, and are intrinsically ideological and politically motivated.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Best part is following 4:30 into the video - watch Chertoff's face closely. The caller lists his military credentials and goes on to say that he to this day still sees a cover-up on 9/11. Chertoff wears his mask - friendly bored. Caller goes on "We know that Able Danger, which infiltrated ...".

Watch his smirk around 5:00. What a creepy guy.
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With your ability to read minds from facial expressions you are sure to win the MDC.
 
RedIbis said:
Reports of DNA at the Pentagon do not prove unconditionally that Flight 77 crashed at the Pentagon.

This is the only point that I've made and that you thus far have been unable to comprehend. It's really not my responsibility to keep explaining this.
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And what you are saying is the equivalent of someone pointing to a thin stream of light coming through their window between the blinds, at 11am, and concluding that someone is out there with a spotlight shining it in the window, rather than just realize that it's actually sunlight.

Of course, it's possible that the evidence was planted, or whatever. It's possible that someone is outside the window shining in the light. But as Paradilis pointed out, you can apply that logic to virtually every argument imaginable. When you are willing to entertain complete lunacy, and put it on equal grounds with tangible and credible evidence.. that should be a red flag for you that maybe your theory is INSANE.

Possible does not automatically mean plausible.
 
I updated my 9/11 crackpot index, once more :D

New troofer claims:

Rumours based on hearsay:
  • Silverstein took benefits from insurance companies

Twisted claims:
  • The lawn was intact
  • The CIA let it happen on purpose
  • "That passport shouldn't be there"
  • "...and it belonged to Mohammed Atta"
  • "No victims on 9/11". You can't check both "the victims are in on it" and that claim.

Rhetorical arguments:
  • "Al-Qaeda did not claim responsibility!!111"
  • "ADNs don't prove there was a plane"
  • Every truncated picture or quote
  • Posts a picture or a document that contradicts him/her
  • "Who benefits the crime ?"
  • "Zacarias Moussaoui was a pretext"
  • Expresses only with laughing smileys or "lol" words
  • "I can't debate with you!"
  • Proud to "doubt"

Supreme antisemitism:
  • Denies to be antisemitic despite of the points already mentioned

The new total score is 1000 points. To get to my crackpot index, see my sig ;)
 
Is it true hat one of fthe Fashion Houses is planning to launch a 9/11 line next fall ? The 'Inside Job' collection ? The word is that the theme will be explosive.

I wonder what they might try ? ( I think they should call it ' the Emperor's new Clothes ' collection myself) . It could catch on like when celebrities don't wear fur as a personal statement .
 
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9/11 Blueprint for Truth Debut on Colorado Public Television:

What a powerful presentation this was. How long can they hold out or will people just put up with it ? Even if they do it is absolutely certain that they are not very happy about the situation. We are definitely into unknown territory here.If the right guy stands up he could start an unstoppable wave.Dangerous times for all, especially the perps. Let's hope the swine flu thing doesn't get us before we get them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjXG1ed1b4Y&feature=player_embedded Gage 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix_rcz1MB1Y&feature=player_embedded Gage 2
 
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Gage is a fraud and a liar on 911. The architects and engineers who sign on with him are idiots on 911 issues since they have failed to think for themselves. Gage is a failure and if you believe what he says is true you have failed to use sound judgment and knowledge.

Gage and his fellow liars had to disable the comments for fear of free speech. The stupidity of his videos.

http://www.kbdi.org/about_kbdi/contact_us.cfm Here is KBDI station which put on Gage and is collecting donations by airing Gage's lies. KBDI is asking for money and airing Gage lies as science; packed with lies. How pathetic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjXG1ed1b4Y&feature=player_embedded
Molten metal flowing like lava. Standard lies for the feeble minded to spread.

KBDI is as dumb as Gage on 911. Sad to see idiots running a TV station; these guys are idiots.

KBDI is giving out lies on books and DVD for donations. The dumbed down KBDI audience. KBDI is calling the delusional stuff of Gage a documentary. The true story is fraud and they are too dumb to see it.

http://www.kbdi.org/community/viewer_buzz.cfm Comments
http://www.kbdi.org/about_kbdi/contact_us_form.cfm?type=vb leave comments.

Blueprint for Truth
Posted: September 21, 2009 ... : 9/11: Blueprint for Truth with Richard Gage, AIA (54 comments) Your documentary is incredibly upsetting, not because of what it says, but because of how biased and incorrect it is. You should be ashamed to air such nonsense. This "documentary" is no different than those on the yeti, the loch ness monster, and Roswell. None of the arguments hold up to scrunity. The rationale plays exactly the game that they acuse NIST and the government of playing. I doubt that Richard Gage is intentionally deceiving others, but he's wrong, and you at PBS should know better. I'm not a fan of the government. Actually, I hated Bush and Chaney with a passion, and I'm not sold on Obama yet either. But I am a fan of good science, and what your video showed was not good science. It plays on the ignorance and fears of viewers, and is nothing more than a base conspiracy theory.
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It will be hard to fool skeptics with Gage's delusions. Be a skeptic and think for yourself.

911 Lies
Posted: September 20, 2009 by ... , Program: 9/11: Blueprint for Truth with Richard Gage, AIA (54 comments) How can you put trash like this on the air? I for one will never contribute to your propoganda efforts, nor will I watch your lousy station anymore. Take this garbage and ***** it!!!
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Is Gage using the AIA again? Who will censure this fraud.
 
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I guess it will be hard to convince jref debunkers of all stripes. I am not so sure about ordinary people though. The science is so clear and wonderfully graphic. None of you can show a controlled demolition better performed than WTC7 which says it all really. Despite what you think Beachnut people are not so stupid hat they don't get the essential killing point of that..

' Your documentary is incredibly upsetting..' This comment also says it all. It goes way beyond 'hard-hitting'. It doesn't matter that the guy is a nay-sayer.
 
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Pulbic Television station http://www.kbdi.org/ KBDI failed to label Gage with his true title; Fraud.

It takes a grade school education to see Gage is a fraud. Who was the idiot at KBDI who fell for the stupidity of Gage?

http://www.kbdi.org/community/viewer_buzz.cfm
From the comments on Gage's work - sad part there are few idiots who believe Gage's junk.
Everyone was eager to tell their conspiracy stories but they all were short on any kind of proof, any names of people involved, and basically anything that would have an ounce of believability.
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The buildings fell because of the way they were built. Also because airplanes were flown into them. ... Conspiracy theorists, wing nuts and their ilk just will not stop with the crap. They probably also believe the President Obama is a muslim, that he was not born in the US and other "Birther" insanity. Freedom of the press is one thing, this is another and something that is only poisoning the well of public discourse. I will never support KBDI again.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjXG1ed1b4Y&feature=player_embedded

For rational people KDBI 911 night was a double insult asking for money and airing lies about 911. Gage did not make dumb 911 conspiracies, he made them dumber.
 
bill smith said:
I guess it will be hard to convince jref debunkers of all stripes. I am not so sure about ordinary people though. The science is so clear and wonderfully graphic. None of you can show a controlled demolition better performed than WTC7 which says it all really. Despite what you think Beachnut people are not so stupid hat they don't get the essential killing point of that..

' Your documentary is incredibly upsetting..' This comment also says it all. It goes way beyond 'hard-hitting'. It doesn't matter that the guy is a nay-sayer.
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As usual, some people continue to go with "what it looks like" instead of researching evidence. Oh wait, you're one of those who choose to wallow in that "what it looks like" mire. Then all you have is....what? An opinion?

Have any convincing evidence Bill? You know, something compelling that overshadows the currently available evidence??
 
bill smith said:
Is it true hat one of fthe Fashion Houses is planning to launch a 9/11 line next fall ? The 'Inside Job' collection ? The word is that the theme will be explosive.
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It's good to see that truthers are still willing to be completely disrespectful and inflamatory, for no good apparent reason other than to provoke reaction.

Aren't you guys always trying to turn the "respect for the dead" thing back on debunkers? How's that mesh up with this shameful crap you just posted?
 
bill smith said:
Still ' just asking questions ' I see Badboy ? lol
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ok, your assertion that the tower collapse was CD cannot be true, because there is no explosives evidence to support this and there would have to be some to bring down a building that size using CD. You can't just blow the few floors near the impact where the collapse started and then rely on continuous collapse, because the truth movement have been arguing that a crushdown is not possible. The whole building would have to be rigged and some evidence of explosives would have been found. And of course this is just a small drop of the literally mounds of evidence that debunks CD.

Howz that. No question. Just me telling you that you’re wrong. I’m along way from being the first and will definitely will not be the last. I say that I know your wrong, that I know you know your wrong, and that I know you know I know your wrong. But who cares really.

Actually, to be truthful I got into Jref because of a (probably) unhealthy curiosity into the denier psyche and that type of human behavior after reading up on global warming deniers – a much more complex issue than this. I find the 9/11 truthers position very odd.
I think you (Billy Boy) are just a troll however, and you don’t really believe in any of it, you probably dont even care one way or another. In some ways that makes you worse than the people who really do believe is was an inside job. But that’s not important.

I wonder sometimes if this odd behavior is a corollary of a decadent western culture. This aimless pastime - an attempt to make small lives more interesting. Prostituting and arse f--ing our sometimes seemingly fragile but hard fought for right to free speech and a free press, using it to propagate garbage. A chance to be seen and recognized. A type of mid-life crises. I wonder if we were living less comfortable times (say a couple of hundred years from now when global warming has really landed on us) that they would be the first to retreat and grab what they can with a F--k the cause, and a who’s going to do something about finding me some food!

The argument will never end because the truthers position is never argued with facts and proper science and this is the way they want it. The last thing truthers want is the complete opposite to what they say they want. Deep down in that weird psyche (and probably subconsciously I suspect) is a fear for the thing to be blown open and a bunch of government officials to come in and take the investigation away from them. What would they do next? But perhaps they feel comfortable in knowing that that will never happen.

This is off topic of course, but the argument was trapped in a spotlight and shot to bits long ago. There really is no point arguing with the truth movement with the aim of changing their mindes because the truth argument is not based on a process of reasoned discourse. They have an agenda and it wont matter what is said or presented to them, they will never change their point of view.

I wonder if some of the more outspoken members of truth secretly hope the whole thing will die down and eventually go away, so they can save face and not ever have to admit they were wrong while not having to continue to try and argue from an impossible premise anymore.

Anyway, keep it up Bill, Im hoping this distraction is stopping you doing some real damage out there in the big wide world.
 
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My interest in jref and this forum has changed though, from denier psyche curiosity to an interest in the analysis of the collapse. I find the posts that discuss the science and engineering really really interesting. Im an IT consultant, my job is really a rather bland form of engineering. Im kind of in awe of the structual engineers and architects who design and put up buildings like the towers. What a responsibility and a confidence and understanding of your subject which you absolutly have to have to achieve stuff like the towers. It would completely freak me out.

So, ironically, this site has accidently become a small window for me to learn something about the subject. Which is mainly why Im here. But just sometimes I cant help myself and post and attempt to stamp on an idiot truther. I just wish I was able to contribute more to the technical discussion.
 
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BadBoy said:
My interest in jref and this forum has changed though, from denier psyche curiosity to an interest in the analysis of the collapse. I find the posts that discuss the science and engineering really really interesting. Im an IT consultant, my job is really a rather bland form of engineering. Im kind of in awe of the structual engineers and architects who design and put up buildings like the towers. What a responsibility and a confidence and understanding of your subject which you absolutly have to have to achieve stuff like the towers. It would completely freak me out.
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That's one of the big reasons I'm still here. This is a good place to learn quite a bit about structural engineering, and to test the knowledge I've acquired in some quite hostile conditions. I work nearer the limit of small scale engineering, so it's a fascinating diversion to see the conditions and constraints involved in working at the big end.

Dave
 
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