Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[Athyrio]

I figured by the simpleness of your responses you may have never used google and that anything of substance from your posts would a longer shot than three steel framed buildings and their contents being pulverized into dust and the US air defense system circumvented 4 times on the same day.

I get it.

You are ignoring the responses to your first two points ( I assume you did expect responses) and now you are moving on to your next two points, effectively trying to change the subject.

Do you think this tactic has not been tried previously?

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I'm making my unofficial diagnosis: troll. Possibly a sock puppet account created in advance. The claims are those of a naïve noob reading or watching long-debunked material from half a decade ago, but that's just bait. The retorts are childish and give the game away.

In my opinion, of course.

 

[beachnut]

I figured by the simpleness of your responses you may have never used google and that anything of substance from your posts would a longer shot than three steel framed buildings and their contents being pulverized into dust and the US air defense system circumvented 4 times on the same day.

Are you saying steel was turned to dust?

Can you post the procedures for planes being hijacked, before 911?

 

[Athyrio]

I'm making my unofficial diagnosis: troll. Possibly a sock puppet account created in advance. The claims are those of a naïve noob reading or watching long-debunked material from half a decade ago, but that's just bait. The retorts are childish and give the game away.

In my opinion, of course.

Of course.

Then again, he could be a bored banker in hard times, some kind of "loan arranger" with few customers right now.

 

[triforcharity]

I'll believe the 1,474 professional Architects and Engineers. Thank you very much. Their scientific evaluation is correct to me.

So, you'll ask a LANDSCAPE ENGINEER (lawn boy) about complex engineering questions?

LOL!!

How about electrical engineers? I bet you'll ask them too.

Do you consult your local plumber on cardivascular surgery too?

Even the information published by NIST contradicts government assertions.

Maybe you can, LOL, provide debunker groups with comparative credentials.

Good luck with that.




MilitaryOfficersfor911Trut
Scientistsfor911Truth
FireFightersfor911Truth
Scholarsfor911Truth
Pilotsfor911Truth
Lawyersfor911Truth


AE911Truth
RememberBuilding7

www.nist.gov

www.JOM.com

www.asce.org

www.fema.gov

Keep going kid. It's funny to watch you appeal to a false authority.

 

[triforcharity]

I figured by the simpleness of your responses you may have never used google and that anything of substance from your posts would a longer shot than three steel framed buildings and their contents being pulverized into dust and the US air defense system circumvented 4 times on the same day.

BINGO!!!


I found a car.

And a mail cart of some sort.

and about 4,000 ID's from people inside the towers.

Plus NUMEROUS other things.

 

[beachnut]

BINGO!!!

I found a car.

And a mail cart of some sort.

and about 4,000 ID's from people inside the towers.

Plus NUMEROUS other things.

He said dust, was he making that up? I see a cinder-block.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I'll believe the 1,474 professional Architects and Engineers. Thank you very much. Their scientific evaluation is correct to me.

And that, in a nutshell, is your problem. You've chosen uncritical belief in a group of charlatans instead of uncritical belief in the major media and the government. And this is a classic example of how truthers aren't the skeptics they claim to be, just mindless believers in a different orthodoxy. They're not capable of assessing evidence critically; all they know how to do is join a different flock.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

Actually, elements outside of the U.S. government utilized the power of a few highly placed individuals in the U.S. government with Cheney and Rumsfeld at the helm.

Thank you for sharing your fantasies with us. We won't hold our breaths waiting for the evidence that supports the above statement.

(Although I'm sure you have plenty that doesn't, but you're going to pretend it does.)

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

If you think the official explanation is sufficiently correct, and that people should move on because there's nothing to see here, why do you spend 25 hours a day on message boards posting the same thing over and over again for years? Wouldn't it be most advantageous to ignore nutters in order to make them go away, a la Flat and/or Hollow Earthers?

Made me laugh.

Made me laugh too. Because, if we did, truthers would then say "Nobody is arguing with us, so our opinion must be the only one anyone takes seriously." It's another one of those heads-I-win, tails-you-lose arguments that are so popular with truthers, along with everybody else who hasn't got any better ones.

Dave

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Made me laugh too. Because, if we did, truthers would then say "Nobody is arguing with us, so our opinion must be the only one anyone takes seriously."

Or that we're "afraid". In fact, we already see that whenever someone refuses to debate a truther.

 

[femr2]

The self-styled *debunkers* sure do love pointless banter

Brought this to mind, within an external discussion.

It's a question for self-styled *debunkers*. Not posed by me, but seems apt here...

If you think the official explanation is sufficiently correct, and that people should move on because there's nothing to see here, why do you spend 25 hours a day on message boards posting the same thing over and over again for years? Wouldn't it be most advantageous to ignore nutters in order to make them go away, a la Flat and/or Hollow Earthers?

What motivates you to dedicate your life to debunking the same nonsense repeatedly when your employer provides you with an internet connection to do your job, not spread your message? No job?

Made me laugh.

Made me laugh too. Because, if we did, truthers would then say "Nobody is arguing with us, so our opinion must be the only one anyone takes seriously." It's another one of those heads-I-win, tails-you-lose arguments that are so popular with truthers, along with everybody else who hasn't got any better ones.

Dave

So that is your motivation ? Ad infinitum ? I've replaced the section of the quote you chopped out, so to repeat...

What motivates you to dedicate your life to debunking the same nonsense repeatedly when your employer provides you with an internet connection to do your job, not spread your message? No job?

 

[oody]

If you think the official explanation is sufficiently correct, and that people should move on because there's nothing to see here, why do you spend 25 hours a day on message boards posting the same thing over and over again for years? Wouldn't it be most advantageous to ignore nutters in order to make them go away, a la Flat and/or Hollow Earthers?

My guess would be that truthers seek to remove the blame for 3000 murders from those who did it, and place that blame onto those who didn't. That's far less quaint than claiming a Hollow Earth.

 

[tsig]

So, now you can completely contradict ALL of them? OK. Why can't we see the photos of the plane approaching the Pentagon (afterwards photos don't count)? Why were so many put options put on United and AA stocks before 9/11? Can you explain away all 40 reasons to doubt the OCT on 911Truth.org? Can you explain away the 10 qualities of a controlled demolition on AE911Truth.org?


Could this be one of those times? With all due respect, you seem to switch camps back and forth, easily swayed by whichever web site you are reading at the time.

When watching championship college debating teams, one side finished, and I thought "they definitely won." Then the other side spoke, and amazingly overturned all the arguments. A really good debate is tough to judge. Same with an exciting basketball game, when one side is way ahead, then the other side comes from behind to win.

Meditation can help you maintain broad comprehension, while you focus on one point of view, so that we are not unduly swayed one way or the other. We need to keep in mind both arguments simultaneously in order to fairly judge them. Otherwise, whichever argument we are considering now, dominates our awareness and appears to be the winner.


I assume you mean refuseD (in the past) and that you know how to spell beliefs. No worries. If a view is true, it will withstand examining the opposing views, and even be reinforced by them. I too am grateful to JREF for that. For example, it helped me quickly determine that a plane definitely approached the Pentagon.



Good news. There is even more on each side of the argument. "We ain't heard nothing yet." This is true of many debateable topics. An ideal truth seeker evaluates all sides of an argument. Knowledge is different in different states of consciousness.


Meditation helps you not be overly "awed" by either Mark's site or Richard Gage's. If 9/11 was carefully designed by experienced attack scenario planners to fool over 300 million Americans, then there will be plenty of good sounding reasons to believe the OCT. One thing they didn't plan on in 2001 -- YouTube, which came out in 2005, allows anyone to analyze 9/11 audio and video second by second.


Since you are not finished, do you care to revise your initial statement about "completely contradicting all the conspiracy theories."? By your own admission, you have not read them all.




There is some value to the JREF forum, which is why I come here. There are some nuggets of gold in the sand. But mostly there are weak arguments and childish insults, which only reinforce my conclusion 90% that 9/11 was an inside job. But I will not be satisfied until I am 100% sure one way or the other.

The only thing I am 100% sure of, regarding 9/11, is that we need a New Investigation of the Official Conspiracy Theory (OCT). No other conspiracy theory in history has caused such a volume of blogs and web sites debating both sides. A Google of "9/11 Conspiracy" shows over 14 million links, beating out "UFO conspiracy" with 5.8 million, and "JFK Conspiracy" with 2.4 million, and "Moon landing" of only .3 million (deservedly low).

Keep up your healthy thirst for knowledge from all sides before we make final conclusions.

Proof by Google.

 

[dafydd]

So that is your motivation ? Ad infinitum ? I've replaced the section of the quote you chopped out, so to repeat...

What motivates you to dedicate your life to debunking the same nonsense repeatedly when your employer provides you with an internet connection to do your job, not spread your message? No job?

I can't speak for Dave but my motivation is encouraging truthers to make even more idiotic statements. I find truthers hilarious. I have no job,I'm retired and I make a bit of money and occupy my time by playing in bands. I come here for the giggles and to learn from those who know.

 

[Dave Rogers]

What motivates you to dedicate your life to debunking the same nonsense repeatedly when your employer provides you with an internet connection to do your job, not spread your message? No job?

It doesn't actually take up that much time. And, of course, exactly the same question could be asked of the other side.

But it's always rather a sinister tactic to question the right of your opponents to debate you at all, don't you think? It seems as if you're trying to win the argument by silencing the other side, not by presenting superior arguments. In fact, it's exactly the behaviour that truthers like to accuse "the government" of engaging in, despite the fact that this tactic never seems to prevent them from framing the accusation.

Dave

 

[tsig]

I'll believe the 1,474 professional Architects and Engineers. Thank you very much. Their scientific evaluation is correct to me.
Even the information published by NIST contradicts government assertions.

Maybe you can, LOL, provide debunker groups with comparative credentials.

Good luck with that.




MilitaryOfficersfor911Trut
Scientistsfor911Truth
FireFightersfor911Truth
Scholarsfor911Truth
Pilotsfor911Truth
Lawyersfor911Truth


AE911Truth
RememberBuilding7

Could you show us where that scientific evaluation is because I've never herd of them publishing anything.

 

[DGM]

What motivates you to dedicate your life to debunking the same nonsense repeatedly when your employer provides you with an internet connection to do your job, not spread your message? No job?

Like Dave said, it really doesn't take up much time. We don't have to spend countless hours analyzing every pixel, shake and shimmy of every 9/11 video made. We just need to point out the obvious and most of that has not changed in years. So, what we need to refute "truthers" is a decent memory and a large enough hard drive to store the facts what we already have.

As far as my employers concerned, I own the company and I don't mind.

 

[triforcharity]

He said the extreme heat they created released benzene and other toxins from plastic and polystyrene in the dust.

Benzene is common in ANY hydrocarbon fire. Hell, it is even produced when a piece of wood burns.

It is MOST common with plastics, as their incomplete combustion produces this. It does NOT need extreme temperatures at all.

In fact, Benzene is the principal componet of the smoke produced when you burn polyvinyl chloride, or PVC. Which, BTW, would have been found in ABUNDANCE in the WTC towers.

Conclusion: Waterboy is wrong.

See here http://www.cancer.org/Cancer/CancerC...kplace/benzene

here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benzene

here

http://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/benzene/basics/facts.asp

And a study done on the dangers that benzene and other chemicals pose to firefighters.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12018402

Now, next time you want to go and repeat something that someone else claims, please feel free to make sure it's factual.

Because, as you have seen here, it's a boldfaced lie.

 

[carlitos]

I figured by the simpleness of your responses you may have never used google and that anything of substance from your posts would a longer shot than three steel framed buildings and their contents being pulverized into dust and the US air defense system circumvented 4 times on the same day.

It's too obvious. Try a little punctuation. Good luck.