Consciousness question

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Then who or, what is it that is doing the articulating?

Huh, what we call the body. This is self evident. And just a reminder, I responded every point with precise comments and questions. Dont ignore them and answer. Thanks

 

[Iacchus]

Huh, what we call the body. This is self evident. And just a reminder, I responded every point with precise comments and questions. Dont ignore them and answer. Thanks

I'm referring to the "navigator" dude.

 

[Mercutio]

I'm referring to the "navigator" dude.

Blackmore addresses this specifically in her talk.

Dude.

 

[Z]

I'm referring to the "navigator" dude.

We call that the brain.

 

[Iacchus]

Blackmore addresses this specifically in her talk.

Dude.

Yes, and this is the part that "I" take very seriously. How so? ... Because it is "me," dude.

 

[Mercutio]

Yes, and this is the part that "I" take very seriously. How so? ... Because it is "me," dude.

You take it so seriously that you have avoided these videos for months. You can claim whatever you like, but your behavior is transparent.

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

Which, is when the brain really starts picking up on weird signals, eh?

Detecting or generating. You seem to have a consistent problem making that distinction. Hallucinations are generated within the visual cortex without signals from the eye. The brain is capable of generating a lot on its own.

The brain is what channels consciousness ... as pertains to our spirit and/or soul.

Based on what? How do you know the brain "channels" consciousness as oopose to generates consciousness. If it was a channel, then consciousness comes from some other source than the brain, and should be detectable by means other than a brain outside of the brain.

You are trying to make the brain be a "processor" only, incapable of generating the senses, much less the sense of "self". Hence, the sense of self, in your mind, must come from some other place, just like an image comes from the eyes.

But ask yourself, is a person who is blind their entire lives able to form a mental image even though their eyes have never sent a single image to the brain? The answer is: yes they can, thanks to various parts within the cerebral cortex and the ability to detect external stimuli through hearing and feeling. They can still "see" in their minds, forming maps, mental constructs and models.

The sense of self or consciousness is mostly routed in the thalmus. Damage to the thalmus can create a loss of sense of one's self. Persistent vegitative state studies have shown that enough damage to the thalmus (with even 0% damage to the cerebral cortex) can render a human into a living vegetable, capable of detecting and processing external signals but with no definable conscious.

Consciousness has been shown to require communication between the thalmus and the cerebral cortex. In other words, consciousness requires some information from external senses into order to form a definition of self. The brain (thalmus) defines self based on external/processed signals (cortex).

Consciousness is GENERATED. Don't believe me? Read a neuroscience textbook on the thalmus and cerebral cortex.

If you want to convince me that it is channeled, I'd like to know where the evidence is.

 

[Iacchus]

You take it so seriously that you have avoided these videos for months. You can claim whatever you like, but your behavior is transparent.

Believe me, it's not that important. I do understand how they are significant to you, however.

 

[Iacchus]

You take it so seriously that you have avoided these videos for months. You can claim whatever you like, but your behavior is transparent.

"I" am more than just a machine. "I" am the machine operator. Don't let it ruffle your feathers, okay?

 

[Mercutio]

Take your time, Iacchus--no need to respond twice to one post. Remember, I am not answering you for your benefit, but for lurkers.

Your claim of being the machine operator is addressed in those videos (I have already sent copies to one person--this is how I know of lurkers), and once again you are quite simply wrong, and demonstrably so.

A very interesting type of importance you have here...just enough to keep you asking questions at a ferocious clip, and to fabricate answers that reinforce your dream-world, but not quite important enough to look for the answers that really do exist.

What a fragile belief system you must have.

 

[Iacchus]

Take your time, Iacchus--no need to respond twice to one post. Remember, I am not answering you for your benefit, but for lurkers.

Of course.

Your claim of being the machine operator is addressed in those videos (I have already sent copies to one person--this is how I know of lurkers), and once again you are quite simply wrong, and demonstrably so.

Yes, for any of you lurkers out there.

A very interesting type of importance you have here...just enough to keep you asking questions at a ferocious clip, and to fabricate answers that reinforce your dream-world, but not quite important enough to look for the answers that really do exist.

Again, for all you lurkers out there.

What a fragile belief system you must have.

To the point that it makes me lazy and I see that it's not going to change the way I look at things? No. If I was that unsure of myself, I would still be looking.

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

Evidence of this would occur when we are dreaming, when we find a means to override these "external signals," at least consciously, and enter a different realm entirely. And yet it is possible to become fully conscious in your dreams, and not be the least bit aware of "the body" which lay there in the bed.

Do you realize that if I went in and destroyed specific parts of your cortex and/or posterior thalmus, you'd completely lose the ability to dream. Wouldn't change your life one bit.

http://www.bbsonline.org/Preprints/OldArchive/bbs.solms.html

And why does it seem to be so inextricably bound to the other signals which the brain has processed, specifically the external signals from our senses? Could it be that it too is merely a signal which a brain is processing from another source?

Or generating from itself. The reason you think these signals are so "inextricably" bound is because you don't fully understand what humanity (specifically medical science) understands about the brain.

 

[Iacchus]

Do you realize that if I went in and destroyed specific parts of your cortex and/or posterior thalmus, you'd completely lose the ability to dream. Wouldn't change your life one bit.

Do you realize that if you didn't have a brain, you would not be here to speak about it?

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

Do you realize that if you didn't have a brain, you would not be here to speak about it?

Do you realize your "Socrates" approach is really getting old?

You brought up dreams. I addressed it.

Now you're bringing up my definition of "I". We're talking about consciousness. Stick to the agenda and address the points of my 2 previous posts.

 

[Iacchus]

Or generating from itself. The reason you think these signals are so "inextricably" bound is because you don't fully understand what humanity (specifically medical science) understands about the brain.

And medical science knows very little if, nothing about spiritual matters.

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

And medical science knows very little if, nothing about spiritual matters.

You're talking about consciousness, sense of self, dreams, sensory perception, signal processing, the brain. Medical science knows plenty.

 

[Iacchus]

You're talking about consciousness, sense of self, dreams, sensory perception, signal processing, the brain. Medical science knows plenty.

I'm sure medical science knows plenty about the brain. An interesting apparatus I might add.

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

Detecting or generating. You seem to have a consistent problem making that distinction. Hallucinations are generated within the visual cortex without signals from the eye. The brain is capable of generating a lot on its own.



Based on what? How do you know the brain "channels" consciousness as oopose to generates consciousness. If it was a channel, then consciousness comes from some other source than the brain, and should be detectable by means other than a brain outside of the brain.

You are trying to make the brain be a "processor" only, incapable of generating the senses, much less the sense of "self". Hence, the sense of self, in your mind, must come from some other place, just like an image comes from the eyes.

But ask yourself, is a person who is blind their entire lives able to form a mental image even though their eyes have never sent a single image to the brain? The answer is: yes they can, thanks to various parts within the cerebral cortex and the ability to detect external stimuli through hearing and feeling. They can still "see" in their minds, forming maps, mental constructs and models.

The sense of self or consciousness is mostly routed in the thalmus. Damage to the thalmus can create a loss of sense of one's self. Persistent vegitative state studies have shown that enough damage to the thalmus (with even 0% damage to the cerebral cortex) can render a human into a living vegetable, capable of detecting and processing external signals but with no definable conscious.

Consciousness has been shown to require communication between the thalmus and the cerebral cortex. In other words, consciousness requires some information from external senses into order to form a definition of self. The brain (thalmus) defines self based on external/processed signals (cortex).

Consciousness is GENERATED. Don't believe me? Read a neuroscience textbook on the thalmus and cerebral cortex.

If you want to convince me that it is channeled, I'd like to know where the evidence is.

In case you missed it.

 

[Iacchus]

In case you missed it.

Outside of our ability to dectect these signals (as of yet), none of what you're saying here is out bounds with what I'm talking about. The brain would pretty much have to function in the same way in order to do what I'm suggesting.

 

[SuperCoolGuy]

When you dream, and the signals from the bodily senses are overriden, you are immersed into another realm. This is why we also remain conscious in our dreams ... well, at least in my opinion.

The other realm you speak of is completely brain generated.

You and I should agree on this point then.