Merged Cold Fusion Claims

[Crawdaddy]

Ben M

Disagree. Oxygen diffusion isn't all that fast.

You disagree that it is plausible that nanoparticulte nickel that has had its native oxide reduced and has significant chemisorption of hydrogen stored under hydrogen gas at 20bar would not be altered upon exposure to air?

That is a tenuous position. Even deliberately adversarial. Then incorporating a small amount of nickel aluminum alloy into the nanopowder would guarantee destruction of the nanopowerder upon oxygen exposure. No explosive required.

First: "reaction site"? What reaction site? This isn't an enzyme. The nickel isn't supposed to be a catalysts for a hydrogen-hydrogen reaction. It's supposed to be fuel for Ni + H --> Cu + Magic Invisible Gamma Rays. If Rossi has set this up so that it only works at a carefully-prepared surface, then his reactor can't possibly run very long.

This is yet another example of you making up properties for Rossi's device, out of thin air, in order to justify the idea that the device works and Rossi's behavior is honest.

"reaction site" = where the reaction takes place. It is not wild speculation to say that if there is cold fusion going on it takes place on the surface of the nickel or in a well defined domain of the nickel crystal. Depending on the number of reaction sites the reaction could run for a very long time. These speculations are all consistent with the body of Cold Fusion literature, which you have declined to read. However a short investigation of the traditional body of literature should convince you that hydrogen interacts with different faces of the nickel crytal lattice in very different ways. Simple evidence that speculation about a "reaction site" though not based on anything Rossi has said is not based on "thin air" but on hard earned knowledge of material science and the interaction of particle and thin film interfaces with chemisorbed species.

Finally I did not propose a mechanism of action of the device or an actual self destruct mechanism. My initial comment was simply pointing out that there are many SELF-DESTRUCT possibilities that are not directly out of a pink panther movie. I never asserted that it was in fact the self destruct mechanism, unlike many people who blindly claim that the self-destruct mechanism must be an explosive.

Do you agree with those people? Are they making things up out of "thin-air"?

Second: Fine. Highly reactive nanopowder. Need to study it without exposing it to oxygen. Fine. There's a glovebox for exactly that task, right across the quad from me, right now.

Good for you! I have a seven port high vacuum cluster tool with 10 different gases connected to it. Do you think that because there is a way of defeating anti-tampering precautions that they can't exist? The logic of this statement escapes me. Can you think of a way of defeating your sneaky glove box technique?

 

[ben m]

Good for you! I have a seven port high vacuum cluster tool with 10 different gases connected to it. Do you think that because there is a way of defeating anti-tampering precautions that they can't exist? The logic of this statement escapes me. Can you think of a way of defeating your sneaky glove box technique?

Let's put it this way. If Rossi can handle his self-destruct-o powder carefully enough that he can build E-cats, I can handle it carefully enough to disassemble them.

Given that fact, why would Rossi suggest that he thinks a self-destruct mechanism is worth spending time on?

Imagine if a band announced that it was really angry about the existence of song-lyrics web sites; and that they wouldn't release their next album until they could implement a substitution cipher to protect their intellectual property. The fact that such ciphers are easily breakable---if nothing else, by listening to the album---is certainly relevant, isn't it?

 

[Crawdaddy]

Ben M

Let's put it this way. If Rossi can handle his self-destruct-o powder carefully enough that he can build E-cats, I can handle it carefully enough to disassemble them.

Given that fact, why would Rossi suggest that he thinks a self-destruct mechanism is worth spending time on?

Of course it is possible to reverse engineer the e-cat, why would Rossi make it easier for someone to copy the device? Why would the makers of direct TV make it hard for someone to pirate their signal when they know it will just get cracked anyways? Maybe Rossi, like printer ink cartridge salesmen, is trying to milk the consumer by making it difficult to substitute copy cat e-cat nickel for genuine Rossi nickel. Who the **** knows? What difference does it make?

So far the product release schedule has not been delayed. When the e-cat isn't demonstrated in October and Rossi blames self-destruct engineering problems, then what you are saying might have some bearing on a calculation of the e-cat's legitimacy.

I find it disheartening that the finest skeptic minds in the galaxy waste time on red herrings like this.

 

[BenBurch]

I already reverse engineered it. Like all good illusions, it's not as easy as it looks, but I can make you one.

 

[nathan]

Some microchips have self destruct capability that is simply induced by regular room lights.

Reference?

 

[Aepervius]

Aepervius



Hmmm let me give you an advanced degree in material science... there done.

And i do not care about your argument by authority. Pot. kettle.

As to your list of ways to defeat the self-destruct mechanism: I don't care.

Then why even start the argument on how it could work to begin with ?

Congratulations you are now officially a TRUE BELIEVER and FULL of WOOO.

No. that means I am open minded to the vanishingly small possibility there might be something. Would I believe it ? No because this pesky lack of evidence.

Now where that does place you i will let other decide.

 

[Aepervius]

By thee way there is an even more laughable part.

There is a second clamp-on heater on the device, supposedly if the reaction "run away" the heater is supposed to melt the nickel (no I am not kidding you). Even supposing the nickel nano particulate melt several hundred degree celsius below 1450 degree celsius, that means he would have to have a high pressure vessel with H2 inside, which support the melting temperature without being weakened by it and disintegrate under pressure.

But even assuming they do it that way, why the heck go in a round about way, and not simply replace the feed of H2 by something else ? Poof, self destruct trigged, nano particulate don't fusion anymore.

That make no sense whatsoever at face value.

 

[Aepervius]

Ben M



You disagree that it is plausible that nanoparticulte nickel that has had its native oxide reduced and has significant chemisorption of hydrogen stored under hydrogen gas at 20bar would not be altered upon exposure to air?

You can't admit you were throwing something at the wall and see if it sticks , right ?

Look, let us take this logically step by step.
* at whom a self destruct device would be targeted at ?
=> answer not the lay, but agaisnt entrepreneur using scientist and engineer to reverse and copy
* why would those scientist expose the gizmo to air and not study under different atmosphere knowing thee is a self destruct inside (public knowledge now)
=> answer there is no reason.
* so having this self destruct help anything at all ?
=> no. It does not hinder in any significant way those it should target to begin with

So. Yeah. there is that. Congratulation on stopping the garage guy copying the eCat.

 

[Craig B]

Are we paying enough attention to Professor Stremmenos, moving force behind Defkalion, and close personal and political pal of the Greek Prime Minister? This site repays close perusal:

http://bearishtrader.blogspot.com/2011/06/defkalion-green-technologies-to-make.html

How did a small Greek company get the rights to distribute this groundbreaking technology in all of Europe? Here is the background. The Vice President of Defkalion Green Technologies, Professor Christos Stremmenos, is the man responsible for bringing cold fusion to Greece ... Note that Professor Stremmenos, is a personal friend of George Papandreou, the Prime Minister of Greece, and did relay information to his old friend regarding developments in cold fusion. Apparently Papandreou expressed some enthusiasm/ belief in the idea at the time of the disclosure. Quoting from the English translation/ transcript of the Christos Stremmenos interview by Italian radio program Città del Capo [as in "Capo de tutti capi"?]

... You were active with the Greek Government to further the experimentation of this plant. What is your role?
- ... When I retired, I wanted to set up my own lab and quietly continue my research. But I did inform George Papandreou, the current Prime Minister, who at the time was President of PASOK. In the Convention which elected him, there were these commissions working on various aspects of the Greek economy. These were supposed to lay down the most favoured Party’s platform for government. So I told him, “George, look” — I explained — “I’m still working on this”. So at the Convention he says: “You know, I believe in this thing too, but who knows when it will come about” “I don’t know”, I said, “ truth and fate we haven’t got, but we must support and pursue this line”... Focardi phoned me a couple of years ago: “Listen Christos, the quality leap has come. Rossi has found a way to …” “But did you measure the ...?” “Yes, I took the measurements myself and I have seen the input energy amplified 200 times, and that’s not all...”. I didn’t know Rossi at the time, because he was in the US. [following charges of waste dumping and gold smuggling in his native Italy] “That’s not all”, he said, “I am witness to the fact that Eon, over there near Ferrara, what’s the place called...

And there the interview extract unfortunately breaks off. But government money, or at least the prestige of the "most favoured party", appears to be involved in the Defkalion saga.

 

[Aepervius]

I refer to the "sniffer airplane" , l'affair des avions renifleurs, where the frnech government and others were involved , and it was a scam thru and thru.

So many people involved, and so few evidence of cold fusion (baring none).

 

[catsmate]

Disagree. Oxygen diffusion isn't all that fast.



First: "reaction site"? What reaction site? This isn't an enzyme. The nickel isn't supposed to be a catalysts for a hydrogen-hydrogen reaction. It's supposed to be fuel for Ni + H --> Cu + Magic Invisible Gamma Rays. If Rossi has set this up so that it only works at a carefully-prepared surface, then his reactor can't possibly run very long.

This is yet another example of you making up properties for Rossi's device, out of thin air, in order to justify the idea that the device works and Rossi's behavior is honest.

Thank you ben. Crawdaddy appears to be confusing/conflating biological, chemical and nuclear reaction characteristics.

Second: Fine. Highly reactive nanopowder. Need to study it without exposing it to oxygen. Fine. There's a glovebox for exactly that task, right across the quad from me, right now.

Exactly, equipment for handling this kind of situation would be available from any good laboratory supplier.

 

[catsmate]

Let's put it this way. If Rossi can handle his self-destruct-o powder carefully enough that he can build E-cats, I can handle it carefully enough to disassemble them.

"What physical science can devise and synthesize, physical science can analyze and duplicate" as Dr. Smith put it back in 1934.

Given that fact, why would Rossi suggest that he thinks a self-destruct mechanism is worth spending time on?

I suspect it's partly an attempt to deter examination of his magic heater, and to explain why it doesn't work ("you tried to open it") and partly to build the mystique.

Imagine if a band announced that it was really angry about the existence of song-lyrics web sites; and that they wouldn't release their next album until they could implement a substitution cipher to protect their intellectual property. The fact that such ciphers are easily breakable---if nothing else, by listening to the album---is certainly relevant, isn't it?

 

[catsmate]

Are we paying enough attention to Professor Stremmenos, moving force behind Defkalion, and close personal and political pal of the Greek Prime Minister? This site repays close perusal:

http://bearishtrader.blogspot.com/2011/06/defkalion-green-technologies-to-make.html



And there the interview extract unfortunately breaks off. But government money, or at least the prestige of the "most favoured party", appears to be involved in the Defkalion saga.

So even knowing Rossi's history they're still embracing this nonsense?

 

[BenBurch]

...

Exactly, equipment for handling this kind of situation would be available from any good laboratory supplier.

Easy enough to make, too.

I've made my own glove boxes several times.

 

[ben m]

There is a second clamp-on heater on the device, supposedly if the reaction "run away" the heater is supposed to melt the nickel (no I am not kidding you).

What does "run away" mean if not "heat up and melt all by itself"?

But this suggests a great "final" demo.

Rossi: "I am proud to announce the completed E-cat."
Ecat: (gentle puffs of steam)
Rossi: "It is producing a megawatt right now as I can tell from the super-hot, dry, but condensing steam"
Ecat: (gentle puffs of steam)
Rossi: "And for the final demo we will plug the steam into this generator."
Ecat: (gentle puffs of steam)
Rossi: (looks at computer screen) "Oh no! The reaction has run away!"
Ecat: (gentle puffs of steam)
Rossi: "I must melt it down to prevent it from melting down!" (presses button)
Ecat: (steam puffs die off)
Rossi: "I regret that the E-cat roll out will be rescheduled."

 

[Crawdaddy]

Aepervius

You can't admit you were throwing something at the wall and see if it sticks , right ?

The point of my post was to point out that a "self-destruct" or anti-tampering (whatever you want to call it) mechanism on the e-cat does not have to be an absurd mission impossible style joke.

I have no way of knowing what if any such mechanism exists and neither does anyone else. I was only pointing to a plausible alternative not reality. I have never pretended otherwise, unlike the people who ridicule the very notion of a self-destruct mechanism, which already exists in some form inmany products you buy at the store.

T

here is a second clamp-on heater on the device, supposedly if the reaction "run away" the heater is supposed to melt the nickel (no I am not kidding you). Even supposing the nickel nano particulate melt several hundred degree celsius below 1450 degree celsius, that means he would have to have a high pressure vessel with H2 inside, which support the melting temperature without being weakened by it and disintegrate under pressure.

Where did you find this information?

 

[catsmate]

Easy enough to make, too.

I've made my own glove boxes several times.

[slightly off topic]
A thread here, on the ease of manufacturing nuclear bombs at home, caused me to enquire of an engineer how easy it would be to adapt a CNC machine to operate in an sealed inert atmosphere, so as to work with plutonium. His solution was basically a big glove box encasing the unit with an airlock system to allow stuff in and out.
He offered to build it for a few grand but I declined.
[/slightly off topic]

 

[Aepervius]

Aepervius



The point of my post was to point out that a "self-destruct" or anti-tampering (whatever you want to call it) mechanism on the e-cat does not have to be an absurd mission impossible style joke.

And my point was and still is : they make up **** as they go.

I have no way of knowing what if any such mechanism exists and neither does anyone else. I was only pointing to a plausible alternative not reality. I have never pretended otherwise, unlike the people who ridicule the very notion of a self-destruct mechanism, which already exists in some form inmany products you buy at the store.

And my point is that it is ridicule at face value, because the people it would attempt to thwart can work around such mechanism. For such a catalyst powder *patenting* would make much more sense.

But hey, patenting means disclosure. And funny enough one things which is avoided at all cost are independent test and disclosure.

(and yes contrary to what you may think some of us are aware of such self destruct mechanism. The one I msotly know of are on chip, but you CANNOT compare that).

Where did you find this information?

About the secondary heater being there to melt the nickel ?
Or about the nickel in nano particulate melting several hundred degree celsius under normal nickel melting point ?

 

[Crawdaddy]

Aepervius

About the secondary heater being there to melt the nickel ?

I have not seen this. Where did you find this information?

 

[Aepervius]

Aepervius



I have not seen this. Where did you find this information?

Defkalion forums in the heater or secondary heater thread. I an check that tomorrow if you wish ?