Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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No doubt about it, it defies common sense. Seems way too good to be true. Rossi has a bit of a shady past. Nothing like this has ever existed before so
why now? Free energy claims in the past have never worked out. If we go with statistics, Not a chance in hell. Yet it seems so unusual. His partner is a legit physics professor with published work in lenr research. Rossi walked into the physics department of a major university to demonstrate. Levi,Kullander, Essén, Lewan and more from science community are convinced. Investor groups, now over $300 million worth, sent scientists to check it out and were convinced. Can't see how this can be considered run of the mill anything.
 
If Rossi is a scammer, He better have terminal cancer because there won't be a place he can hide.
 
If Rossi is a scammer, He better have terminal cancer because there won't be a place he can hide.

Why would he need to hide? Free energy scammers can string people along for many years, always just about to iron out that last technical hitch.
 
Well somehow he survived the previous incident with other of his wonder devices: in early 2000es he was working on his thermoelectric device that performed much better than similar devices then "accidental fire" destroyed his New Hampshire plant and his capacity to build 100 watt thermoelectric devices so that he could only build 1 watt devices after the fire...

http://dodfuelcell.cecer.army.mil/library_items/Thermo(2004).pdf
 
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Pffft, even if he did receive money, if he couched the contract in a nice legal "no result expected" way, he is pretty much safe. See Steorn or all the similar guys. There is a good reason people try to con other with free energy device (assuming we are not speaking of the true believer) : there is a chance they can get away with it. And Rossi *SEEM* to have already gotten away with something with electrical heaters. Repeat offender : if somethign worked in the past... Why not try it again ?
 
not really, there is always 'it just did not work', how much money has he received?

The factory burned down (Rossi version 1), the light shining on the demo damaged the bearings (Steorn), the prototype was destroyed by the investors who were trying to test it (Bearden), they're working out the bugs and will be ready in six months, the plant works fine but we're keeping its location secret while we build a bigger one, etc.
 
Not sure how much the US marketing group paid Rossi- they won't say, but I understand they are prepared to back him with 280 mil
 
Ben I'll even give you that one, but TjW said pretty run of the mill. Don't think i'll agree with that.

Sure. I said run-of-the-mill, not that all scams are identical.

Inventor with no formal education in the field? Check.
Actual operation would require complete reformulation of physics? Check.
Bizarre demonstrations geared more toward entertainment value than accurate measurement? Check.
Claims of having a patent? Check.
Paranoid secrecy in spite of having a patent? Check.
Appeals to false authority? Check.
Claims of large, as-yet-uncompleted business deals? Check.

The details differ from scam to scam. But the pattern stays the same.
 
Meter spins backwards (while meter in the building with the vacancy sign next door spins so fast it's about to rip out off the wall)?
 
The really bad thing about this is that if Rossi is a fraud it gives lenr research an even worse name than it already has. I believe in the excess heat phenomenon and would really like to see it studied by mainstream science.
 
unclep2k: Fleischmann and Pons are (were) mainstream science. How many millions were sunk into the mater afterwards? Do you think Rossi perhaps noticed that?
 
The really bad thing about this is that if Rossi is a fraud it gives lenr research an even worse name than it already has. I believe in the excess heat phenomenon and would really like to see it studied by mainstream science.

Hu. No. It gives those which bited at the bait some of the shame (some in this thread), but cold fusion can't have a much more worst reputation than it has now. And anyway if tehre is something to it, evidence will trump reputation all the time.
 
These are sources of fraud not error.

No. All except 4) could be the result of simple incompetence.

1) the big blue box that draws power from the wall and supplies it to the e-cat is a controller. The purpose of a temperature controller is to deliver and modulate a well regulated amount of electricity to the heater. If the energy delivered to the heater different from what is reported then the explanation is fraud.

As already noted several times, they did not monitor actual power usage. A faulty or miscalibrated power supply, could easily supply a different amount of power from that expected.

2)In the 18 hour test there was no vaporization. The flow rate was set by the municipal water supply.

No it wasn't. The flow rate out of a tap is set by your own personal plumbing system. If your pipes are clogged with limescale, for example, you will get much less flow out your taps than someone without such clogging. And if you connect a hose to the tap and then connect something else to that, the flow will be very much affected by factors such as the aperture of the hose. Squeeze the hose flat and the flow will drop to zero. This should be trivially obvious to anyone who has ever used a tap or seen a hose, so I really find it difficult to believe that you don't understand it.

3)In the 18 hour test there is no way that the municipal water supply could vary by accident to the degree required to significantly affect the result.

Probably not. That would be why I explicitly stated that it would not be enough to explain the results on its own, and just that it was an obvious additional source of error that there is no excuse for any competent experimenter not to have eliminated.

4)In the 18 hour test the energy output is too high to be explained by a battery.

I notice you don't comment on the possibility of having an additional heater hidden inside the apparatus. Interesting.

Your analysis of inadvertent error possibilities suffers because of the magnitudes of excess energy.

No it doesn't. As explained many times now, the flow through a pipe, especially a flexible one, can easily drop to zero. That means you could explain apparent power anywhere up to infinite just from that factor alone. Until they do a test where they measure the actual water flow and actual power production, all their claims are utterly meaningless.

Enough evidence of fraud is required to be considered proof of fraud.

Why are you talking about proof in response to my pointing out that proof is irrelevant? Perhaps you've forgotten where you are. This is an internet forum, not a court of law or a peer reviewed journal. No proof of anything is required, ever. What is required is evidence, and people here will all come to their own conclusions based on whether they consider that evidence convincing enough for their own personal tastes. So far, the evidence presented for Rossi's claims has not been enough to convince a single person who didn't already believe that he has discovered cold fusion, but has convinced plenty of people who had never heard of him before that he's probably a fraud.
 
There are already 97 E-Cat working worldwide.

So on one hand we're supposed to believe that Rossi's technology is so top-secret that, in his flagship this-clinches-it demo, he can't even remove the tinfoil that hides the steel pipe that hides the lead shield that hides the "catalyst". On the other hand we're supposed to believe that he sent out 97 copies of the thing? To whom?

On one hand we're supposed to believe that Rossi's operation is on such a shoestring suppressed-by-The-Man budget that he can't afford any basic test equipment (a flowmeter) or analysis services (a time-series of ICP-MS isotope ratios). On the other hand we're supposed to believe he made 97 copies of the entire apparatus.

On one hand we're supposed to believe that the reason Rossi's analysis is so incompetent is "he's an engineer/inventor, not a physicist" so we should cut him some slack. On the other hand we're supposed to believe that Rossi has 97 trusted colleagues not one of whom is a ha'penny closer to being a scientist.

And so on.
 
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