Merged Cold Fusion Claims

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Be sure to come back and gloat and "I told you all so", I will post here on Dec 1, 2011 and we will see who was correct.
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I don't know why you would write something like this?

I think it might be because you think that I am abandoning this thread. However, only someone with extremely limited reading comprehension skills would think that.

Gloating would be a little unjustified in this case in any event.

I hope that if this device proves real (unlikely in my opinion) you will take the time to re-evaluate your approach to skeptical exploration. If the rest of your contribution to this forum is along the same lines as what you have contributed to this discussion, I fear all your posts to date may have been a waste of your time and effort.
 
Owen Abrey
May 15th, 2011 at 12:14 AM

Dear Mr. Rossi,
Please put me on your email list. I would like to be kept up to date if possible!
Thank you,
Owen Abrey






Wladimir Guglinski
May 15th, 2011 at 7:14 AM

Owen Abrey wrote:

Dear Mr. Rossi,
Please put me on your email list. I would like to be kept up to date if possible!

Dear Owen,
soon you will be uptaded by the own media, because when the first 1MW plant start working in Greece, the media cannot keep hiding the fact from the people.





Andrea Rossi
May 15th, 2011 at 7:39 AM

Dear Dr Wladimir Guglinsky:
I think you got the core. What counts is to make working plants. All the rest id tongue-displaced-air.
Warm regards,
A.R.






Herald Patterson
May 16th, 2011 at 8:58 PM

Dear Mr. Rossi,

Although I understand the extreme significance of opening the one megawatt plant, I disagree with the notion that anything else is tongue displaced hot air. Discussion of the E-Cat before the opening of the plant may not it open one day sooner, but I’ve read many words of excitement, wonder, joy, and even hope. The existence of the E-Cat is more than just a news story to many people around the world. It is a dream taken form, a ethereal apparition made corporeal, and a futuristic fantasy manifested into reality.

What naysaying skeptics said was impossible, has been made absolute fact by your technology. For years, many had clung onto the idea a truly unlimited source of clean, abundant, and cheap energy could be obtained. Your technology provides such a wondrous potential! It has the ability to be utilized by mankind as a tool to change our world for the better. To be blunt, there is no aspect of modern civilization that will remain untouched by your technology.

I firmly believe human beings could have cooperated long ago to make a world in which hunger, disease, poverty, and war were obsolete. However, we have used the technological advancements of the last century to find new ways to kill each other. I think your technology will make the world realize there is now NO EXCUSE, but to take advantage of the E-CAT to address these issues that plague humanity.

Although hot air may be coming out of our mouths, the heat was produced by a warm and rapidly beating heart eager to see a future world utilizing your technology. We may be frustrating sometimes, and we may ask questions you cannot answer. But with a few exceptions, we talk, chat, and ponder your technology with the best of intentions.

Please forgive us when we get too excited, and need to learn patience.





Wladimir Guglinski
May 17th, 2011 at 6:52 PM

Dear Mr. Herald Patterson

There are already 97 E-Cat working worldwide. But such fact is not spraid by the media, and the most academic physicists claim that Rossi’s technology does not work.

Other many cold fusion reactors are working since many years ago. Look at the Jean-Naudin website. However, in spite of they work, they are not recognized by the academic physicists, and the media do not take them in consideration. There is a conspiracy against cold fusion.
Those other cold fusion reactors are not so efficient like the E-Cat. But they really work. However, only their work is not enough to eliminate the resistance of the academics against cold fusion.

Dr. Rossi decided to make a 1MW plant supplying a factory because he knows that even a lot of E-Cats, each one working alone (in several different places of the world), cannot win the conspiracy of the academic world against cold fusion reality.
The 1MW plant is a new strategy. And when a factory starts to work in Greece it will be impossible to neglect the fact, because saving energy will decrease the cost of products. Other factories will be interested in such technology.

This is a novelty to you and many people. But there are many cold fusion researchers that are tired with the tongue-displaced-air of the skpetics that claim cold fusion to be impossible.
That’s why we dont want to hear theirs claims anymore. We dont care anymore on what they claim. Their tongue-displaced-air will be silenced when the 1MW plant start to work in Greece.






Andrea Rossi
May 18th, 2011 at 1:58 AM

Dear Dr Wladimir Guglinski:
I agree.
Warm regards,
A.R.


http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=488&cpage=2#comments
 
pedrone said:
Dr. Rossi decided to make a 1MW plant supplying a factory because he knows that even a lot of E-Cats, each one working alone (in several different places of the world), cannot win the conspiracy of the academic world against cold fusion reality.
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Sounds like someone's been reading too much mad-scientist steampunk fiction. "They're laughing now, but they won't be laughing when my minions unleash the GIGA-E-CAT in my secret volcano lair! Mwa ha ha!"

How about the boring alternative: hand out unencumbered e-cats to competent experimenters, who would quickly turn the "effect" (if there were one) from mystery-shrouded crackpottery into normal physics? Remember that the gold standard of science is "the effect can be reproduced and studied by anyone". Not, if I recall correctly, "We built one TOO BIG TO BE IGNORED."
 
Crawdaddy said:
3)In the 18 hour test there is no way that the municipal water supply could vary by accident to the degree required to significantly affect the result.
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What matetrs is not the municipal supply in the big pipe deep under earth, but what comes out on the premise alsmost certainly in smaller ,pipes, sometimes less isolated.

In my case it can vary so much as even go from cold to *no water* within 24h because the water froze inside a pipe. Sure enough it was due to a crappy isolation which had disintegrated and left the pipes open to external temperature variation. And when the temperature went from slightly above zero to way under zero within 1 or 2 days....

Sure it is very circumstancial to my house, but it demonstrate that it can happens. Since you did not visit his premise you don't know if he is not taking water from a pipe which run outside not isolated.

By the way in summer I had the reverse problem that since the heating element were pumping always the same power (no temperature detector just a resistance dumping the same power no matter the temperature of the input water) the water could at some moment be so hot as to be unusable for shower. And in winter due to cold water, the water was only LUKEWARM after being heated.

That does not mean it is the case here, only that it could be , you do not know. Which is why one measure input temperature water or input power MUCH more precisely.

And I see now you are saying it was not a scientific experiment but a demonstratrion. If the demonstration DO NOT demonstrate anything purported due to failure of proper measurement, it is a failed demonstration and essentially would be the same as pissing in a violin to play music.
 
dayum, I was looking forwards to how this was going to play out, but I guess Rossi's going to be saved by the rapture.
 
There has never been anything like this before. It is either the greatest invention of all time, or the greatest scam of all time. I've seen plenty of free energy scams in my lifetime, but nothing where people of such esteem have signed on to validate and invest.
 
Crawdaddy said:
I don't know why you would write something like this?

I think it might be because you think that I am abandoning this thread. However, only someone with extremely limited reading comprehension skills would think that.

Gloating would be a little unjustified in this case in any event.

I hope that if this device proves real (unlikely in my opinion) you will take the time to re-evaluate your approach to skeptical exploration.
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Excuse me, you need to re-evaluate your approach to experimental variables. Sources of error are huge problem, Show me your citations for how they are not. You can not control for them in post analysis, we don't know how much energy went in and how much came out.
The method used in not the standard used in electrical engineering.
The method used is not the standard used heat production and transfer.

And no amount of rhetorical waffle on your part will change that.

If you think you can make statements about how great the size of the error could be when such non-standard methods are used, then I ask you again to show me citations for that in the theory of science and measurements. Show me how you can make such judgments when such poor methods are used?

How can you determine if there are fractions of error or whole orders of magnitude of error, you can’t.

No fraud needed.
If the rest of your contribution to this forum is along the same lines as what you have contributed to this discussion, I fear all your posts to date may have been a waste of your time and effort.
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You are saying that we should consider that the error is poor measurements should not matter because error would not produce the result given. Or that is should be disregarded for some reason.

This means that you do not care for what the alleged effect actually is.

That controller does not measure the amount of electrical energy in, we do not have an accurate measure of the energy in.

The water flow system used does measure the temperature accurately.

We do not have the error bars for the methods, we do not know possible sources of variation in the measurement of what would normally be the variables.

So any statement that states

(energy output) is greater than (energy input) is potentially very wrong.

Sooo if you think that I am wrong, what size is the possible error in both values? How do you determine it is accord with standard practice for measurement of electricity and heat production?

We don’t know if there is an effect or not. Period. Full stop.
 
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TjW give me an example of a scam with validation by several established scientists/engineers and investors such as a former official of DOE.
 
So, Crawdaddy,

Apparently you're being shy.

As the saying classically goes (under more entertaining circumstances) I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours. The video of the April 28 test can be found at http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3166552.ece

Unless you object, this video shall be considered the video you refer to in post #886 and #894. You hold that this video establishes the existence of a second heater which is directly connected to the reactor capsule, and establishes that this heater is driven to high temperature as part of E-cat operation, right?

And please don't think you need to dignify this with a response. Failure to respond to this message within 24 hours, especially by posting a response to any other member on this thread, shall constitute implicit agreement that my link is good.

Prosit.
 
Ben I'll even give you that one, but TjW said pretty run of the mill. Don't think i'll agree with that.
 
If Rossi wanted to really show-off, he could just sign a pure input/output testing contract with a competent laboratory, no looking inside, studying the effect etc allowed, and they could tell in about 24 hours, more or less depending on the output levels, whether it is real or not.
 
unclep2k said:
TjW give me an example of a scam with validation by several established scientists/engineers and investors such as a former official of DOE.
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Then there are SNIFFEX and the ADE-651, both sham "bomb detectors" (actually dowsing rods) that didn't do anything. The companies briefly convinced the military that they worked. (They sold millions of dollars worth to the US and Iraqi militaries.) How?

(a) being all mysterious and proprietary about the underlying mechanism
(b) staging convincing-looking demonstrations that lacked key scientific controls

In other words, the same thing Rossi is doing.

In the field of physics, we have: Podkletnov gravity shielding. The Shawyer "EMDrive". Whatever Mark Goldes is calling his contraption today ("Chava Energy" apparently). The Biefield-Brown effect. All got lots of attention, and a burst of government funding, but turned out to be various mixtures of fraud and incompetence. I think Tom Bearden managed to leech some grant money for his free-energy device.
 
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unclep2k said:
I've seen plenty of free energy scams in my lifetime, but nothing where people of such esteem have signed on to validate and invest.
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Could you list the people who are esteemed and actually are qualified to test that device. For example that Swedish "skeptic", Hanno Essen, might be esteemed as docent, but his field being theoretical physics, classical mechanics, makes him less qualified than a student who has worked one summer in laboratory doing instrumentation and calorimetry.
 
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