• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Ed Clintonemails.com: Who is Eric Hoteham Part 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
You have hit on a pet peeve of mine.

The appearance of impropriety is frequently conflated with actual impropriety. it isn't, and the distinction is important. There are no statutes which punish appearances of impropriety. If something violates a statute, it is improper. it doesn't appear improper.

In some cases, corporations or governmental entities have rules that prohibit certain activities for fear that engaging in those activities might contribute to the appearance of impropriety, but those are policies of that organization, not actual ethical or legal violations.

Doing unethical things is improper, and might land you in legal hot water. Doing things that might make someone suspect that you may have done something unethical is bad public relations, and might make your boss angry.

Fortunately here we are talking about the law which includes specific canons of professional responsibility that a lawyer, Judge and prosecutor should also avoid the appearance of impropriety, which Canons have the force of law.

Thanks though for posting
 
Fortunately here we are talking about the law which includes specific canons of professional responsibility that a lawyer, Judge and prosecutor should also avoid the appearance of impropriety, which Canons have the force of law.

Thanks though for posting

I'll believe you if you provide some information that backs up your statement.
 
I'll believe you if you provide some information that backs up your statement.

That is curious, because you didn't feel the need to provide any information whatsoever to back up your statement. Curious....

Oh wait, here is someone also posting...


Curious, the second link in Canon 9 directly supports what I wrote.

CANON 9.
A LAWYER SHOULD AVOID EVEN THE APPEARANCE OF PROFESSIONAL IMPROPRIETY
Ethical Considerations
Disciplinary Rules
DR 9-101
Avoiding Even the Appearance of Impropriety

Fantastic! :thumbsup::D:thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
That is curious, because you didn't feel the need to provide any information whatsoever to back up your statement. Curious....

Oh wait, here is someone also posting...

Curious, the second link in Canon 9 directly supports what I wrote.

Fantastic! :thumbsup::D:thumbsup:

No, it really doesn't.

Shocking that your next step was so transparent, amiright?
 
That is curious, because you didn't feel the need to provide any information whatsoever to back up your statement. Curious....

Oh wait, here is someone also posting...

Curious, the second link in Canon 9 directly supports what I wrote.

CANON 9.
A LAWYER SHOULD AVOID EVEN THE APPEARANCE OF PROFESSIONAL IMPROPRIETY
Ethical Considerations
Disciplinary Rules
DR 9-101
Avoiding Even the Appearance of Impropriety

Fantastic! :thumbsup::D:thumbsup:

No, it really doesn't.

Shocking that your next step was so transparent, amiright?

Yes it REALLY does. Shocking indeed!
 
That is curious, because you didn't feel the need to provide any information whatsoever to back up your statement. Curious....

Then you need not believe me. See how easy that was.


But I'll check out the line that was posted to Canon 9.
 

I was wondering how far it would go before someone actually cited something. Even the ABA.

Avoiding the appearance of impropriety is more a goal to achieve than a rule that when broken leads to sanctions. Each bar has its own rules, so maybe some association has made it more a rule than some other one, but in general it is at best a guideline.
 
Then you need not believe me. See how easy that was.


But I'll check out the line that was posted to Canon 9.

Canon 9 doesn't apply because, among other things, Bill Clinton isn't a party represented by a lawyer, and because there is no evidence the case was discussed. That canon is about a lawyer contacting a party when that party has a lawyer.

Beyond that, the ABA canons themselves have little force. Membership in the ABA is not mandatory, so their rules are pretty much advisory.
 
Huh, good thing I was here to fix your blatant errors, huh?

She won't get arrested, maybe disbarred like Hillary's scumbag husband.

Again, OK ! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Over here in reality, the rest of us know absolutely nothing will come of Lynch meeting with Clinton.

PS - the FBI isn't going to recommend charges

PPS - benghazi was a dud

PPPS "Madame President" - get used to it :thumbsup::thumbsup::D
 
Then you need not believe me. See how easy that was.


But I'll check out the line that was posted to Canon 9.

And I did, and that section has a very specific list of things that should be avoided, and a narrower list of things for which disciplinary action can be taken and "meeting with the husband of someone whom you might have to rule on whether or not to indict" is not on the list.

This goes to the nature of my pet peeve. Lawyers/judges/officials/employees are cautioned to avoid the appearance of impropriety. In some cases, ethical codes are created with specific rules that exist specifically because the actions covered are very likely to create the appearance of impropriety. In fact, that appearance is so strong that the activities themselves are deemed improper, even if they are not illegal.

And then, people rant on as if anything they think looks suspicious to them constitutes an "appearance of impropriety", and is somehow against the code of ethics. No. That's not it. The code of ethics contains a list of things which are considered unacceptable. If it isn't on that list, they aren't against the code of ethics.

What we are dealing with in this meeting might be called "the appearance of the appearance of impropriety".
 
Last edited:
Oh well... Here is the top court in New York Disqualifying a prosector due to the appearance of impropriety:

However, in rare situations, the appearance of impropriety itself is a ground for disqualification, as our case law recognizes, when the appearance is such as to "discourage[] public confidence in our government and the system of law to which it is dedicated" (People v Zimmer, 51 NY2d 390, 396 [1980]). In a case of that nature, "[d]efendant, and indeed the public at large, are entitled to protection against the appearance of
613
*613 impropriety" (Shinkle, 51 NY2d at 421). We are persuaded by the unique circumstances that this is such a case.

Although no constitutional right to a plea bargain exists (see Lafler v Cooper, 566 US ___, ___, 132 S Ct 1376, 1395 [2012]), an appearance of impropriety may arise when the record provides an objective basis to question whether the prosecutor is exercising pretrial prosecutorial discretion in an evenhanded manner, based on the merits of the case or other legitimate prosecutorial concerns. Here, while we do not find that any actual impropriety occurred, there is an unacceptably great appearance of impropriety — the appearance that the District Attorney's office refused to accept a reduced charge because the complainant was a sitting judge who demanded that the matter go to trial, rather than because a trial was, in its own disinterested judgment, appropriate.


Just more facts from the Big Dog...
 
Oh well... Here is the top court in New York Disqualifying a prosector due to the appearance of impropriety:



Just more facts from the Big Dog...

Congratulations. You have mastered google search.

Now, interpreting what you see is more problematic. Were there any indictments in this case? No? I'm puzzled. How can that happen? Here they have the appearance of impropriety, and yet there are no indictments. What could have gone wrong? I guess this was another case where, as @realDonaldTrump put it, the system is rigged.
 
The more I think about the airplane meeting, the more it seems to signal to all parties that AG Lynch and the Clintons are cozy. Even if AG Lynch was not in on the "chance meeting" from the beginning (but, hey, maybe anyone can just hop on the Attorney General's plane unannounced), Clinton still managed to get 30 minutes of "face time" with AG Lynch. Mission accomplished. What career-minded FBI agent is going to run the risk of recommending an indictment against people his boss pals around with talking "primarily" about golf and grandkids?

On a related note, I thought the FBI was also investigating the Clinton Foundation. Perhaps I'm wrong about that. But if accurate, it raises even more ethical issues.
 
What career-minded FBI agent is going to run the risk of recommending an indictment against people his boss pals around with talking "primarily" about golf and grandkids?

An honest one, of which there are many. However, they will only make such a recommendation if supported by the evidence.
 
Did anyone actually claim this was illegal and criminally punishable?

I thought everyone was just saying it was inappropriate, which it was.

Inappropriate != Illegal
Ethically/Morally Questionable != Illegal
 
...

On a related note, I thought the FBI was also investigating the Clinton Foundation. Perhaps I'm wrong about that. But if accurate, it raises even more ethical issues.
I suspect that if there was anything there we'd have heard about it by now.
 
Did anyone actually claim this was illegal and criminally punishable?

I thought everyone was just saying it was inappropriate, which it was.

Inappropriate != Illegal
Ethically/Morally Questionable != Illegal

I'm pretty sure it's an ethical violation for the leader of the department leading an investigation to even put herself in a situation which would give the appearance to a reasonable person that there could be some impropriety. Privatley meeting with the husband of a subject under investigation, as Lynch admits herself, gives the appearance of impropriety. So it's at least an ethics violation. I'm mobile right now but I'm pretty sure ethical violations are against some federal statute. I'll look it up and post later.

16.5 said:
Fortunately here we are talking about the law which includes specific canons of professional responsibility that a lawyer, Judge and prosecutor should also avoid the appearance of impropriety, which Canons have the force of law.
Emphasis added.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom