Clean Unlimited Energy

joobz said:
I wish you luck, but your time is better spent pursuing more realistic goals.
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Ya. But that advise is akin to listening to your old pragmatic uncle tell you it is foolish to spend money on a hot rod, or that you will soon tire of having sex with that 40-24-36 bombshell you are head-over-heels about. Some things in life have to be tried by a person before they find out for themselves, (theme from Wizard of Oz) and then move on. Why? Because if they do not try that which they think is going to give them satisfaction...they will always wonder what it may have been like.

I think that in the back of the mind of perpetual motion inventors (been there and tried myself) is this haunting that this is a puzzle...a conspiracy by God to confound...that someone truly determined can break the puzzle, by stumbling on just the right formula. The odds are definitly against it. And actually the laws of science would say the odds are nil. But it has always been the quest of man to try to beat out nature...to tear down the bounds of the universe...that there is SOME way out there of doing it...that we just haven't found it...yet. In the same way we haven't found out how to stop gravity...yet. Stop gravity (on one side of a motion machine) and there you go!
 
Iamme said:
Ya. But that advise is akin to listening to your old pragmatic uncle tell you it is foolish to spend money on a hot rod, or that you will soon tire of having sex with that 40-24-36 bombshell you are head-over-heels about. Some things in life have to be tried by a person before they find out for themselves, (theme from Wizard of Oz) and then move on. Why? Because if they do not try that which they think is going to give them satisfaction...they will always wonder what it may have been like.

I think that in the back of the mind of perpetual motion inventors (been there and tried myself) is this haunting that this is a puzzle...a conspiracy by God to confound...that someone truly determined can break the puzzle, by stumbling on just the right formula. The odds are definitly against it. And actually the laws of science would say the odds are nil. But it has always been the quest of man to try to beat out nature...to tear down the bounds of the universe...that there is SOME way out there of doing it...that we just haven't found it...yet. In the same way we haven't found out how to stop gravity...yet. Stop gravity (on one side of a motion machine) and there you go!
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I see your point by the hot rod example, but I don't see it that way. It's more like a kid saying they can dig a hole to China. It's an honest assumption to make since the world is round, but when you consider the real size of the earth, the geology of the earth core, .... And the sad thing is, it is more likely to be able to dig that hole than make a PMM.


There is a reason why everyone asks for a working model. It is because a model doesn't make assumptions. A model will expose the reasons why some strategy doesn't work. And in the case of the stopping gravity example, i can assure you the amount of energy required to "stop gravity" would exceed the energy production you'd get from stopping it in the first place.
 
Iamme said:
But it has always been the quest of man to try to beat out nature...to tear down the bounds of the universe...that there is SOME way out there of doing it...that we just haven't found it...yet. In the same way we haven't found out how to stop gravity...yet. Stop gravity (on one side of a motion machine) and there you go!
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Are we tearing down the bounds of the universe, or are we finding more clever ways to work within those bounds?

I bet there is a way to stop gravity. Unfortunately, I'm equally certain that the amount of energy required to do so will exceed any possible energy savings.

ETA: Joobz already said it first.
 
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I have dicided to try a different approach (post #30 realy got to me).
I will send the plans to peaple if thay sign a
NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT .
My email is unlimitedenergy @ bluebottle . com .

 
allmee1 said:
I have dicided to try a different approach (post #30 realy got to me).
I will send the plans to peaple if thay sign a
NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT .
My email is unlimitedenergy @ bluebottle . com .
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That's a pretty good idea. Your ideas would not become public knowledge and should the information get out you could sue for any profits.
 
I think the PMM inventors are going about it the wrong way.

If I were entrepreneurial, I'd open a fitness center (spinning classes) either next door to a laundromat or merely wired back to the grid. (For the latter, I think in most places the power company has to buy back your surplus when you're generating more than you use.) There can never be an energy crisis when people are paying to burn off calories.*

Or how about a little tiny water powered generator to turn that leaky faucet into usable energy? (And most renters don't pay the water bill anyway. . . )

*Since most of our food supply is supported by oil-derived fertilizers, this idea still isn't green!
 
allme, I haven't seen your idea, but I bet it's some version of an unbalanced wheel.

It won't work--you just haven't accounted for all the forces.
 
Do any of you Want to check the design.
Heres another email ( allmee @ aemail4u . com )
 
allmee1 said:
Do any of you Want to check the design.
Heres another email ( allmee @ aemail4u . com )
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Thanks much!

Here is the e-mail that I just sent you.

RE: Clean Unlimited Energy

Dear sir:

I saw your postings on the James Randi web site regarding your perpetual motion machine.

I would be most interested in reviewing your work. If you could show me your ideas, then I would be pleased to evaluate them for you.

Thanks much and please contact me if you have any questions.

Steve Kimble
Charleston, WV
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I look forward to hearing from you.
 
allmee1 said:
(post #70) Yes i have checked the site and no it different from all the rest.
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Thanks.

In that case, which physics principle needs to be violated to make your design work? For example, AgingYoung claims that gravity is not a conservative force. What is your claim?
 
allmee,

allmee1 said:
I will send the plans to peaple if thay sign a
NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT .
Click to expand...

Most nda's aren't worth the paper they're written on. If you happen to have one that is legally binding in some jurisdiction there could be loop holes in others. Law is as much political as it is about truth or fact gathering.

If you felt someone violated the nda you would have to go thru the process of seeking a judgment. That wouldn't be nearly as difficult as collecting on that judgment. I know someone that has had their ideas posted at a couple of sites by 'honorable', 'respectable' folk who had signed nda's. Maybe in your case it would be different.

Gene
 
I'll trust Cross' judgment for the moment and wait for a comment.



JoeTheJuggler said:
I think the PMM inventors are going about it the wrong way.

If I were entrepreneurial, I'd open a fitness center (spinning classes) either next door to a laundromat or merely wired back to the grid. (For the latter, I think in most places the power company has to buy back your surplus when you're generating more than you use.)
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Joe... My understanding is that yes, they buy the surplus. With a credit to your account. :(
 
KingMerv00 said:
Oh? Are there any scientific discovers that do not conform to the Laws of Thermodynamics?
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Discovery in pure mathematics wouldn't conform to the inter-relation between heat, work and internal energy of a system. The point of something conforming to the laws of thermodynamics is different from what you first said ....
  • Well I learned something today. Apparently, something has managed to convince the US Patent Office that PMMs are impossible. Must have been every scientific discovery ever.
In the instance of a medical discovery it might be said that the process of a cure conforms to the laws of thermodynamics; it would be quite a stretch to say the process is convincing proof of those laws.

I think a good contemporary example of a mathematical discovery is the proof of Fermat's Last Theorem. In as much as ideas don't have mass they are free to roam around and totally ignore any effect the Laws would like to impose on them.

Upthread I mentioned why I didn't think a simulator could model perpetual motion...
  • In the real world forces are precisely distributed as they are.
Someone mentioned the idea (and I've heard it before) ...
  • Physical simulations will be written with the know phisical laws in them.
But are simulators really programmed with known physical laws? I don't think they are and for the reason I mentioned. Most simulators I'm aware of calculate frames then base the next set of calculations on the prior results. I'm guessing but I think the calculations a sim makes is based on averages. In reality you can't infinitely divide a distance. You'll get to a point where you have an atom on the left and one on the right (a molecule). If you try to divide that mass into 10th's you'll no longer have matter. There is something that can reside in the infinite divisions of distance between two atoms; that is the forces that exist. We couldn't possibly measure them but we could calculate them.

In the real world although matter can't be forced between the space in a molecule there is something there. That's what I meant when I said, 'In the real world forces are precisely distributed as they are.' I've discovered it has been put far more eloquently than I did...
God does not care about our mathematical difficulties - he integrates empirically. A. Einstein
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Albert beat me to the punch.

Gene
 
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AgingYoung said:
In as much as ideas don't have mass they are free to roam around and totally ignore any effect the Laws would like to impose on them.
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An idea may be representable in many, many ways but all of those ways are going to be subject to the laws of physics. And many of those representations are going to have mass.
 
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