Christianity is a grotesque blight!

<snip strawmanning and whataboutism >


Nope... the Anglican Church and the Vatican and Orthodox Churches and Protestant Churches are the richest elites by far.

Nope... they do not just tell stories... they do vile deeds and corrupt minds and souls and psyches... and markets too.

Nope... they too throughout centuries have robbed and pillaged and plundered and enslaved and vitiated humanity.

Thomas Jefferson said:
... the priest has been hostile to liberty. he is always in alliance with the Despot abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. it is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them...
 
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You really dislike the French Revolution... do you also dislike the American Revolution too??

You are still holding the mirror, reflective side facing Catholicism and Christianity and theism... that is what is being reflected in your above post.

Is that what you read in my arguments?
That I dislike the French Revolution?

It would explain some of your remarks, if you read this in them.

No, I don't dislike the French Revolution. It was very much needed at the time.
On the other hand, it is also a fascinating tale of ever going more and more extreme, eventually resulting in the mere whisper of suspicion, being moderate for instance, being enough for a person to be send to the guilliotine.
these ever more extreme actions being fueled by people, like Hébert, Marat, or Saint-Just (I omit Robespierre in this list, as he was even more dangerous than these persons. Holding the French people to an ideal, they could never hope to fullfil).

But yeah.
If I read your arguments, I see the same kind of haranguing (beautiful word, that is), the same lack of understanding the views of other people, like Marat, Hébert or Saint-Just did in their time.
 
Nope... the Anglican Church and the Vatican and Orthodox Churches and Protestant Churches are the richest elites by far.


Simply wrong. There are hundreds of corporations with capital values much larger than the Catholic Church. Many governments hold even more wealth.

Saying a priest is wealthy and powerful is like saying a Walmart assistant manager is wealthy and powerful because they work for a $500 billion corporation. In Thomas Jefferson's day in England, when a successful entrepreneur ran a farm or a grain mill or a fishing boat, a medical doctor was a lowly tradesman, a scientist was a hobbyist, and only the church and the hereditary nobility owned any land at all, there might have been cause to envy the parish priest's four-room rectory, shelf of books, and set of gold-plated dishes used for worship services. But more likely, even Jefferson was engaging in some hyperbole. Applying the same comparison to the modern world is just ridiculous.
 
...
On the other hand, it is also a fascinating tale of ever going more and more extreme, eventually resulting in the mere whisper of suspicion, being moderate for instance, being enough for a person to be send to the guilliotine.


Yup... much like what the Catholic Church and Christianity of all its risible tentacles, did...

See you are still holding the mirror, reflective side facing Christianity.


these ever more extreme actions being fueled by people, like...


Paul and Eusebius and Martin Luther and John Calvin and Henry VIII and Pope Boniface VIII and Pope John XII and Pope Urban VI and Pope Urban II etc. etc. etc.

I do not mention Tomás de Torquemada and Isabella and Ferdinand as they were even more psychopathic than those persons.

Not to mention other christian psychopaths like Elizabeth I and Thomas Cromwell and Kenneth Copeland and Jim Jones and Pat Robertson and Billy Graham and Jerry Falwell and and and and and and


But yeah.
I read your arguments,... I see the same kind of haranguing,... the same lack of understanding....


Of reality like Catholics Amy Coney Barrett and Brett M. Kavanaugh and Samuel A. Alito and Clarence Thomas...

Not to mention other Christian fanatics like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence and William Barr and Jeff Sessions etc. etc. etc.
 
Simply wrong. There are hundreds of corporations with capital values much larger than the Catholic Church. Many governments hold even more wealth.

Saying a priest is wealthy and powerful is like saying a Walmart assistant manager is wealthy and powerful because they work for a $500 billion corporation. In Thomas Jefferson's day in England, when a successful entrepreneur ran a farm or a grain mill or a fishing boat, a medical doctor was a lowly tradesman, a scientist was a hobbyist, and only the church and the hereditary nobility owned any land at all, there might have been cause to envy the parish priest's four-room rectory, shelf of books, and set of gold-plated dishes used for worship services. But more likely, even Jefferson was engaging in some hyperbole. Applying the same comparison to the modern world is just ridiculous.

Yeah, but they have like $10 trillion worth of rare and unique artifacts, manuscripts, and jewels that they looted from the Aztecs! Robert Langdon said so!
 
So far it has been the case... and judging by the regression human civilization is going through right now... due to the imbecility of theists and the innate predatory nature of humanity... the prognosis is... more of the past.


Perhaps you misunderstand me, or maybe you did understand me but were only offering a general opinion, as why shouldn’t you; but just to clarify, as far as this, I was actually arguing against religion here. This paragraph is directly connected with what I went on to say in the next paragraph (which you applauded). As such, and given your views, I don’t think we are likely to disagree over it, if you’d relook it in light of what I’ve said.




Thank you. I’m glad there are some things we agree about. (Actually we agree about most things, just like most people here agree with you about most things; and most of these disagreements your threads are littered with are unnecessary, and largely of your own making, self-goals as it were. Pity, really.)



Indeed... but... only if it is "screaming at the clouds" of christianity... but when it is done at the clouds of Islam... then it is cheered on and said to be "exactly what the doctor ordered".... hmmm... I wonder why the special pleading for christianity???


I’m probably going to regret this. It may have been wiser to just let this be. But still, and against my better judgment, here goes:

Thermal’s right, you’re quoting that old post of mine, that you’ve dug out from another thread, completely out of context. That’s either deliberately disingenuous, or else completely misunderstands something entirely obvious.

Here, let me quote fully that old post of mine, that you’ve reproduced in part here:


Yeah, man, bring it on!

Your particular ...style of posting, has been off-putting to (some) others in other parts of the forum, Leumas. Rightly or wrongly, let's not go into that here, and take our attention away from our friend Heydarian's nonsense. But, what I'm saying is, if ever this sort of high-octane stuff, coupled with a meme or two, and tinged with sarcasm and ridicule, were apposite, then this is where it's at. When someone is completely impervious to reason, has a hide that a rhinoceros would pray to the gods for but never ever get, has not a smidgen of shame or intellectual honesty --- or else, just perhaps, is sitting there yanking our chains and giggling away to himself at getting us to fall for his shtick --- well then, what you got is exactly what the doctor ordered! Bring it on, and more!


Surely it is clear what I’d meant, back then, and why, when you read my post fully?

If not, let me spell it out to you, in so many words:

What the OP in that thread was doing was very different than, and in some ways exactly the opposite of, what you’re doing here. Those were arguments presented in defense of religion. Well, hardly “arguments” really, but whatever.

That is what the difference is, between the two cases. Not that the one was about Islam, and the other about Christianity; that part is only incidental.

In fact, should you (or someone else) take to starting threads and ranting on endlessly about Islam here, much as you’re doing about Christianity, then I’ll wager that you (or whoever does that) will mostly get the exact same kind of reactions as you’re getting now. It’s not that we --- heh, all “tribal”, right?! --- don’t agree with what you’re saying, by and large we do, at least as far as the “perniciousness” of religion in general and Christianity in particular. What we find disagreeable are your uncalled-for stridency, your pointless and endless preaching to yelling at the choir, as well as some incidental issues where you refuse to recognize your own mistakes (as with the now-infamous coin flipper thread).

---

I mean, seriously? You really didn’t directly see the actual difference between those two cases, and only registered that the one was about Islam and that your posts were about Christianity? Did you really need me to spell all of this out in such detail?
 
For God and The King!

Simply wrong. There are hundreds of corporations ...


And Christianity is the largest one with numerous branches and sub-branches.

And it has raped and pillaged and plundered humanity for longer than any other corporation and more egregiously.


Saying a priest is wealthy and powerful is like saying a Walmart assistant manager is wealthy and powerful because they work for a $500 billion corporation.


Does an assistant manager at Walmart get to rape the customers' children and Walmart protects them and moves them to work in other Walmarts around the world to avoid the consequences of their crimes?


In Thomas Jefferson's day in England,... Applying the same comparison to the modern world is just ridiculous.


Seriously? Have you seen the reality show called the coronation of Charles III?

I suggest you see it and observe the baubles and foppish accoutrements of obscene wealth and boastful power accumulated over the centuries of plundering and pillaging of autochthonous victims all around the world IN THE NAME OF GOD AND THE KING.
 
Equivocating the medicine with the disease

Perhaps you misunderstand me, ...

I understood the sentiment... but it was too hopeful... given the state of human thuggery and weaselness and cowardice and tribalism and ignorance of their ignorance... I do not have any hope that thugs will not forever be aided and abetted by weasels while the tribal members willingly accept it because of their cowardice and inability to shirk off their tribal indoctrinations.


I’m probably going to regret this. It may have been wiser to just let this be. But still, and against my better judgment, here goes:

Thermal’s right, you’re quoting that old post of mine, that you’ve dug out from another thread, completely out of context.


No I did not... the context is that in a thread about Islam... arguing about Islam... I execrated Islam and Allah and their desert brigand.

You cheered my

...expression, and screaming at clouds...


and told me

Yeah, man, bring it on!

Your particular ...style of posting, has been off-putting to (some) others in other parts of the forum, Leumas.... what you got is exactly what the doctor ordered! Bring it on, and more!


So you ENJOYED my "screaming at the clouds" when you want me to do it and in fact you thought it was "exactly what the doctor ordered" and asked me to "bring it on and more".

So it is "what the doctor ordered" and you want even more "screaming at the clouds" when you want it.

But when it is "screaming at the clouds" of Jesus and Christianity that you don't want to be screamed at... and you wrongly cannot see a need for the "doctor's orders", you then take umbrage at the MEDICINE that the "doctor ordered" and which you wanted more of for the Muslim guy.

As you yourself correctly say... but not see how it applies to yourself....

That’s either deliberately disingenuous, or else completely misunderstands something entirely obvious.


What the OP in that thread was doing was very different than, and in some ways exactly the opposite of, what you’re doing here. Those were arguments presented in defense of religion. Well, hardly “arguments” really, but whatever.


And of course... here comes the EQUIVOCATION of the medicine that the "doctor ordered" with the disease.

You only can see the need for the medicine when the disease is not Christianity...


In fact, should you (or someone else) take to starting threads and ranting on endlessly about Islam here, much as you’re doing about Christianity,


Here you go again... equivocating the snake oil salesman with the "doctor you want more of".

When the snake oil being peddled is not what you recognize as snake oil... you do not want "what the doctor ordered and more of it".

Equivocating "what the doctor ordered" against the disease of peddling Islam but rejecting "what the doctor ordered" when the disease is Christianity.


I mean, seriously? You really didn’t directly see the actual difference between those two cases, and only registered that the one was about Islam and that your posts were about Christianity? Did you really need me to spell all of this out in such detail?


The one who is not seeing the special pleading for Christianity is you....

When "what the doctor ordered" is applied to Christianity it is rejected and you equivocating the medicine with the disease...... but when it is applied to Islam you want to "bring it on and more".
 
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Looks Like We're Titling Our Individual Posts Now

So that's refreshingly new, yet already growing repetitive.
 
Yeah, but they have like $10 trillion worth of rare and unique artifacts, manuscripts, and jewels that they looted from the Aztecs! Robert Langdon said so!


The fact that Robert Langdon (I had to look up who he is) is a fictive character saying what the writer wrote him as saying... does not detract from the fact that the words written by the all too real writer are mostly correct...

Just with a slight correction by substituting the words "looted from the Aztecs" with "looted from the European and all other continents' autochthonous populations throughout the ages".

How much money does "god" have?
The church has vast assets, including billions in real estate and some priceless art, not to mention the Vatican Bank. But its finances are largely secret. Tallying that immense wealth is pretty much impossible, according to experts.
There are also national churches in countries like the United States and Germany, which have decentralized economic systems, said Jason Berry, an investigative reporter who wrote the book “Render Unto Rome: The Secret Life of Money in the Catholic Church.”
...

“Based on these figures, the church is clearly the largest non-government property owner, by value, in the state, and close to the largest in Australia,” The Age wrote.
...
 
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Habemus Antipapam!

Which, being translated from the Albigensian, meaneth

Auntie Pope
Unca Pope
Went ta bed
Can't tellya more
Cuzzat's all they said!

Burma Shave
 
How is what you highlighted in my post wrong?

Without emotions and rationally... please explain

Was the the Anglican church created by a lecherous horny despotic murdering KING ... or not?

Do you deny the HISTORY of the crimes against humanity of Christianity?

I have been watching a YouTube channel called MythVision, and it's very interesting. Christianity is actually a natural evolution of Judaism combined with Greek and Roman theology. And Judaism itself was a synthesis of other prior and contemporary theologies.

So when you single out Christianity for 'crimes against humanity' you are tarring Jews and others with the same brush. The truth is that every society has been guilty of crimes in the past, and most still are to some extent. The Anglican church may have been created by a lecherous horny despotic murdering king, but that doesn't mean much because every organization back then was created by similar types. The modern Anglican church is far more benign and doesn't deserve your vitriol.

Leumas said:
How does what Stalin did show "us" that what you highlighted in my post is wrong?
You are putting the blame on Christianity, when the real problem is people. Theist or atheist makes no difference - all zealots commit atrocities in pursuit of their ideology. Your own rhetoric is dangerously close to that of monsters like Stalin.

Does an idiot messing up the intestines of a person infested with tapeworms while using an incorrect procedure to remove the tapeworms, make "us" know that tapeworms are not a blight and that it is wrong to try to correctly remove tapeworms from people infested with it?
A better analogy would be describing gut bacteria as a 'blight' that must be removed. You may think it's disgusting, but we need it to help digest our food. Similarly, most people need a little religion in their lives to help 'digest' the cold hard facts of reality.

Let's say you got your way and managed to remove the 'tapeworm' of Christianity 'infesting' everybody. Are you prepared for the increase in suicides as many people are forced to face the utter futility of existence? Will you also 'remove' the Christian cultural heritage and traditions we enjoy? And after you have finished doing that, will you then find something else that offends you? You are more like Stalin than you think.

Leumas said:
Does the Anglican Church uphold KINGS and QUEENS as the DIVINELY appointed ELITES... or not?

Divine right of kings
Over time, opposition to the divine right of kings came from a number of sources, including poet John Milton in his pamphlet The Tenure of Kings and Magistrates, and Thomas Paine in his pamphlet Common Sense. By 1700 an Anglican Archbishop was prepared to assert that Kings hold their Crowns by law alone, and the law may forfeit them.
 
I find this thread fascinating. It's like Dunning-Kruger and paranoia had a baby, and that baby picked up a thesaurus.
 
I note Leumas that in your responses to Lukraak wherein you disagreed with him regarding where the current attack on democracy is coming from, that you assumed he is American. He isn't. He's Dutch.

Speaking as a Brit, I concur with his point. The primary attacks on Democracy that I see are from populists and new wave fascists and not Christianity. It's the same all over the world, with the possible exception of America because those groups in the US are intertwined with the evangelical movement.

I can assure you that is not always the case anywhere else in the world.

But you didn't even bother to think that he might be from somewhere else, did you? Your narrow minded parochialism led you to lash out at him as a liar because he dared to have a different perspective than you.
 
...The Anglican church may have been created by a lecherous horny despotic murdering king,...


So I am wrong because I am correct?


You are putting the blame on Christianity, when the real problem is people. Theist or atheist makes no difference - all zealots commit atrocities in pursuit of their ideology.


So I am again wrong because I am right?


Let's say you got your way and managed to remove the 'tapeworm' of Christianity 'infesting' everybody. Are you prepared for the increase in suicides as many people are forced to face the utter futility of existence? Will you also 'remove' the Christian cultural heritage and traditions we enjoy?


So you are a Christian then?

If not then you are a theist at least?

If not then what was it that enabled you to "face the utter futility of existence" and not "suicide"?


... the Christian cultural heritage and traditions we enjoy?


Do you say the same about Islam?

Do you "enjoy" the heritage of barbequing witches and heretics and blasphemers?
 
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So you cite a section called "Opposition To the Divine Right Of kings" in defense of the Anglican Church's TENET of Devine Right of Kings???

Then you give as witnesses for the defense of the Anglican Church's TENET of Divine Right Of Kings???
  1. Atheist Thomas Paine... one of the fathers of the American Revolution to shed off the tyranny of the Divinely Ordained King of England...
  2. John Milton a revolutionary with Oliver Cromwell who beheaded the Divinely Ordained King of England, and who himself was labeled a "dangerously radical heretic"...
  3. A single solitary anonymous Anglican Archbishop

So do you think that negates that the Anglican Church upholds as one of its tenets that kings are divinely appointed?

Let me ask you... do you think Oliver Cromwell was "more like Stalin than you think" or not?


From here
In England, it is not without significance that the sacerdotal vestments, generally discarded by the clergy – dalmatic, alb and stole – continued to be among the insignia of the sovereign (see Coronation of the British monarch). Moreover, this sacrosanct character he acquired not by virtue of his "sacring", but by hereditary right; the coronation, anointing and vesting were but the outward and visible symbol of a divine grace adherent in the sovereign by virtue of his title....

In England the doctrine of the divine right of kings was developed to its most extreme logical conclusions during the political controversies of the 17th century; its most famous exponent was Sir Robert Filmer. It was the main issue to be decided by the English Civil War, the Royalists holding that "all Christian kings, princes and governors" derive their authority direct from God,...
 
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I have been watching a YouTube channel called MythVision, and it's very interesting. Christianity is actually a natural evolution of Judaism combined with Greek and Roman theology. And Judaism itself was a synthesis of other prior and contemporary theologies.

So when you single out Christianity for 'crimes against humanity' you are tarring Jews and others with the same brush.


Defense attorney: Your honor...Psychopathy is a natural evolution of Humanity... so when you blame psychopathy for crimes you are tarring the French and others with the same brush.


The truth is that every society has been guilty of crimes in the past, and most still are to some extent.


The truth, your honor, is there has been many psychopaths who did crimes and most still are to some extent.


The Anglican church may have been created by a lecherous horny despotic murdering king, but that doesn't mean much because every organization back then was created by similar types.


Your honor... my client might be a serial killer psychopath but there has been many other serial killer psychopath before and after him.


.. The modern Anglican church is far more benign and doesn't deserve your vitriol.


And your honor... this serial killer psychopath is quite benign he only raped and killed 5 girls... the psychopaths before and after him killed much more than that and this psychopath serial killer does not deserve to be prosecuted so harshly.


...You are putting the blame on Christianity, when the real problem is people.


You are blaming this psychopath for the crime of raping and killing 5 victims, when in fact all people commit crimes.


Theist or atheist makes no difference - all zealots commit atrocities in pursuit of their ideology.


Psychopaths and non-psychopaths alike all commit crimes in pursuit of their ideas.


...Your own rhetoric is dangerously close to that of monsters like Stalin.


The Prosecuting attorney accusing and prosecuting my psychopathic criminal client is itself a dangerous crime that is close to the crimes of Stalin.


A better analogy would be describing gut bacteria as a 'blight' that must be removed. You may think it's disgusting, but we need it to help digest our food.


Your honor... the Stalin like prosecuting attorney is drawing an analogy between my serial killing psychopathic client and tapeworms which kill their victims. But your honor... a better analogy is the symbiotic bacteria in our guts that help us digest food and do no harm and kill none.

Your honor... you may think symbiotic bacteria in the intestines that kill none and in fact are a necessary element of the biotic echo systems, is disgusting...

But... your honor... it is a better analogy to a psychopathic serial killer who preys upon and kills his victims than the analogy with a tapeworm that preys upon its victims and kills them.


...Similarly, most people need a little religion in their lives to help 'digest' the cold hard facts of reality.


Similarly most societies need a few psychopathic serial killers to help society face the harsh facts of reality.


Let's say you got your way and managed to remove the 'tapeworm' of Christianity 'infesting' everybody. Are you prepared for the increase in suicides as many people are forced to face the utter futility of existence?


Your honor... let's say that the Stalin like prosecuting attorney got his way and removed this psychopathic serial killer from amongst the people... are you prepared for the crimes that the would be victims he will not prey upon, will do when they remain alive and most likely commit crimes like most people do?


Will you also 'remove' the Christian cultural heritage and traditions we enjoy?


Your honor... my psychopathic serial killing client is the owner of a very powerful corporation that makes products our society loves and cherishes... will the Stalin like prosecuting attorney also 'remove' his products that we all enjoy?


And after you have finished doing that, will you then find something else that offends you? You are more like Stalin than you think.


And your honor... after this Stalin like prosecuting attorney finishes prosecuting this benign psychopathic serial killer, will he find some other criminals that offend him?

He is more like Stalin and Hitler and Robespierre than he thinks.



.
 
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I find this thread fascinating. It's like Dunning-Kruger and paranoia had a baby, and that baby picked up a thesaurus.

..Your narrow minded parochialism ..


Thanks Mark for that passionate emotional calumny in defense of Christianity... thus proving how acrimonious the apologetics for Christianty can get.... :thumbsup:

ETA: at least you did not call me Hitler or Stalin or Robespierre or Atilla.
 
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Why do you think I'm defending Christianity?

Why do you refuse to actually answer the substance of my posts and instead whine about the tone of them?
 
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