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Chiropractic diagnosis

Unsubluxated said:
How is it quackery? If the brain is unable to communicate with the body and control it's function, dysfunction occurs. Tissues swell and compress nerves and hinder nerve impulses. Comunication is restored by adjusting the spine and giving the joints more normal mobility. This decreases the swelling in the tissue surrounding the joints, easing the nerve pressure. It's simple, we all have innate intelligence (at least most of us) which makes our bodies self-regulating organisms. By giving the brain the best possible communication with the body, dysfunction disappears. There are many documented cases of infertile women concieving after T/L adjustments. Just because it's not a medical solution, doesn't mean it's quackery, especially if it works!

So how does this apply to infertility specifically? Please explain the pathophysiology involved. And your reasoning of "it helps the brain communicate with the organs" is not nearly precise enough.

At any rate, you need to become familiar with teh language of science. Just because a woman conceives after having a spinal adjustment proves nothing. You would have to take a bunch of infertile women, expose them to different treatments, including placebo and chiro, and show that chiro treatment restored fertility in a manner statistically significant to placebo. The women would have to be assigned randomly to the groups, and you would need a "sham" manipulation to offer as a control to chiropractic manipulation.

Also, how do you know that the "dysfunction" disappears? Do you a pre-chiro X-ray showing clear pathology and another X-ray after manipulation showing the reduction or removal of said pathology?

Or are you defining dysfunction purely in terms of what the patient claims regarding fertility?
 
brief digression from well deserved taunting of chiro-spokesmodel:
Chanileslie said:
The University of Nevada charges each school year a mandatory $76 fee for student health services and it doesn't matter if one requires or even wants these services, one is required to pay the fee. Of course, that also gives one unlimited access to the student health center which one can get most of the basic medical care.
i am -very- pleased to know that in one state (:() i am wrong. i wish it was more. here, they even have to pay to go to the health center, although it is $10/visit.

right. (draws up chair and popcorn)
carry on!
 
bug_girl said:
brief digression from well deserved taunting of chiro-spokesmodel:

i am -very- pleased to know that in one state (:() i am wrong. i wish it was more. here, they even have to pay to go to the health center, although it is $10/visit.

right. (draws up chair and popcorn)
carry on!

UK students all get free healthcare (well except for thoes who somewoh earn enough to pay tax) for some reason the US doesn't seem to want to go down the road of universal healthcare.
 
Has anyone ever gone to a chiropractor and heard them say, "Alrighty then! Everything looks fine. See you next year for your checkup!".
 
First of all, this site is not a cult site. A cult site would seek to seduce you into their way of thinking. No one here seduces anyone. On that level, anyway.

Secondly, your quote
Chiropractors are trained to diagnose and treat, and refer if necessary. (snipped) When was the last time you went to a chiropractor or visited a chiropractic college? Or just take drugs and have body parts removed, it's a free country-I would be better off talking to the nearest brick wall anyway. Medical bigots.
is wrong. I check out these colleges every year, what their criteria is, their schedules, their standards of education. And while they are taught to make a Chiropractic diagnosis, they are not medical diagnoses, which is also necessary to know in order to "heal the whole patient." They ignore the medical aspect. Not very professional, you know, especially when "top Chiro colleges" like Palmer advertise and educate that a Chiropractor is a Primary Care Physician, which is an outright lie.
Thirdly (bouncing around, I know, but sorry):
Yes, mine too, because everyone knows thats impossible, everyone's legs are exactly the same length!!! hahahahaha
misses the point entirely. I went to several chiropractors (6) in ONE DAY, and none of them agreed on what the diagnosis was.
How is it quackery? If the brain is unable to communicate with the body and control it's function, dysfunction occurs. Tissues swell and compress nerves and hinder nerve impulses. Comunication is restored by adjusting the spine and giving the joints more normal mobility. This decreases the swelling in the tissue surrounding the joints, easing the nerve pressure. It's simple, we all have innate intelligence (at least most of us) which makes our bodies self-regulating organisms. By giving the brain the best possible communication with the body, dysfunction disappears. There are many documented cases of infertile women concieving after T/L adjustments. Just because it's not a medical solution, doesn't mean it's quackery, especially if it works!
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chirosub.html discusses this "theory of innate healing." Mainstream Medical Doctors know the body can heal itself; they know far better than a Chiropractor how the body works to maintain and heal itself if necessary. It's not in a subluxated manner; at least in a Chiro's way of thinking of subluxations. If Chiropractics doesn't work the way it says it does, with tiny spine misalignments affecting health, it is a lie, and that is quackery.
And the infertility issue: there are no studies that I know of that affirm chiro helps solve infertility problems; this is merely a tale of anecdotes, same as when Chiro supposedly cures cancer, autisms, deafness, and hiccups.
Someone said I should check out this site, I read a post that was attacking something I hold very dear and I was angry. I'm sure you would react the same way (which you have). If my posts were too abrupt, I apologize.
If you come in here angry, the reaction will be angry. As this is a message board, you had the option to calm down and wait before posting angrily. Many people do. Also, this is probably going to be your only warning: nothing is sacred here. We will discuss and criticisize and tear apart everything from chiropractics to brain surgery to religion, to choices of food and family and career and moral decisions. If you take it personally and lash out, the response is your own damn fault.

to Phaycops:
Just because it's called a college doesn't mean that what it teaches is true. A doctor of chiropractic does NOT have the same schooling or qualifications as a medical doctor.
True. And quantity is not the same as quality.
 
Jas said:
Has anyone ever gone to a chiropractor and heard them say, "Alrighty then! Everything looks fine. See you next year for your checkup!".

With all the 100's of clients I've spoken with, who went to see a chiropractor and were told they needed an adjustment... short answer is "no." They all needed adjustments. Then again, according to some chiros, every person in the WORLD has spinal misalignment of some kind; it happens from the moment you're born, and there is a certain type of chiro who advoated adjusting the spine of a baby to help it "early in life." It's a really rude term describing this type of chiropractor, so I will leave it to you to decide what it's called. So, as every person in the world has subluxations, every person in the world needs them. And so do domestic dogs, horses, etc.... our spines are so delicate and get knocked out of alignment so easily. Kind of scary if a chiro really COULD knock it back into alignment so easily.

Oh, I'm not saying Chiro is not beneficial, but the way they are managed now, they do more harm than good.
 
Unsubluxated said:


Chiropractors are trained to diagnose and treat, and refer if necessary. I don't know what part of the country you live in, but that's not the way it is here. Last time I checked D.C. stands for DOCTOR of Chiropractic, which would indicate a Doctorate degree. (snipped)
Looking at this again, people can also become DOCTOR of Literature, DOCTOR of foreign language, DOCTOR of social science, etc. DOCTOR doesn't mean a thing, unless the term Medical is attached.
 
bug_girl said:
brief digression from well deserved taunting of chiro-spokesmodel:

i am -very- pleased to know that in one state (:() i am wrong. i wish it was more. here, they even have to pay to go to the health center, although it is $10/visit.

right. (draws up chair and popcorn)
carry on!

Share the popcorn bug_girl!
 
HopkinsMedStudent said:
Unsubluxated,

Give me a list of problems/symptoms in which you believe chiropractic is more effective than placebo.

Chiropractic only treat vertebral subluxations. If the body functions better as a result of this, why is that such a problem for you?
 
Unsubluxated said:


Chiropractic only treat vertebral subluxations. If the body functions better as a result of this, why is that such a problem for you?

Still being a bit antagonistic?

The body is not better for it because vertebral subluxations don't exist in the medical community. How can the body benefit from a hypothesis that hasn't been proven viable?
 
geni said:


Please provide evidence. So far all you have done is commited an appeal to popularity fallicy.

I believe the information that was quoted about infertility was from a study, ask Johns Hopkins where he got it.
 
Unsubluxated said:


I believe the information that was quoted about infertility was from a study, ask Johns Hopkins where he got it.

No, Unsubluxated, you asserted the correlation between infertility and chiropractic adjustment. It is for you to provide the evidence.
 
HopkinsMedStudent said:


So how does this apply to infertility specifically? Please explain the pathophysiology involved. And your reasoning of "it helps the brain communicate with the organs" is not nearly precise enough.

At any rate, you need to become familiar with teh language of science. Just because a woman conceives after having a spinal adjustment proves nothing. You would have to take a bunch of infertile women, expose them to different treatments, including placebo and chiro, and show that chiro treatment restored fertility in a manner statistically significant to placebo. The women would have to be assigned randomly to the groups, and you would need a "sham" manipulation to offer as a control to chiropractic manipulation.

Also, how do you know that the "dysfunction" disappears? Do you a pre-chiro X-ray showing clear pathology and another X-ray after manipulation showing the reduction or removal of said pathology?

Or are you defining dysfunction purely in terms of what the patient claims regarding fertility?

What the hell is a 'sham' adjustment?
 
Unsubluxated said:
My tone was in response to the overall tone of this thread. Wow, no spirited debate on this site, just 'if you don't agree with me, get the hell out'. No willingness to learn, to accept or consider that there might be another option for health care. You guys should start calling yourself a cult instead of a website. Nooooo, the world is flat, dammit and I don't care what anyone says.

*covers ears and chants "I can't hear you, I can't hear you...*
That would be YOU in that last sentence, wouldn't it? :rolleyes:

Oh, and who has asked you to leave here? Or even to agree with us? What we HAVE asked you for is evidence. That's evidence. E. V. I. D. E. N. C. E. Got any? I mean REAL evidence?

We wait...
 
Zep, did I ever mention you axlotl is so cuddly looking? I wanna take it to sleep with me like a teddy bear.
 
Jas said:
Has anyone ever gone to a chiropractor and heard them say, "Alrighty then! Everything looks fine. See you next year for your checkup!".

Nope, never heard the dentist say that either. Don't see anybody attacking them.
 
Unsubluxated said:

If the body functions better as a result of this, why is that such a problem for you?

Kindly provide good quality studies that show that this is the case.

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Unsubluxated said:


Nope, never heard the dentist say that either. Don't see anybody attacking them.

Really? They it to me about once a year (ie every time I go).
 
Unsubluxated said:


Nope, never heard the dentist say that either. Don't see anybody attacking them.

Dentists play a different role in healthcare, but you already know that.
Nice attempt to divert.

What the hell is a 'sham' adjustment?
what the hell, you don't know what a placebo is? How about double-blind studies?
 
Suezoled said:

Looking at this again, people can also become DOCTOR of Literature, DOCTOR of foreign language, DOCTOR of social science, etc. DOCTOR doesn't mean a thing, unless the term Medical is attached.


HAHAHAHAHAHA-that has got to be the funniest thing I have ever seen-aren't WE important HAHAHAHAHAHA
 

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