chemtrails

[Corsair 115]

Might any chemtrail folks explain why aircraft seventy years ago were also emitting these supposed toxins?

 

[TjW]

I go to school with someone whom believes in Chemtrails. I opened up my AMT textbook (published by ASA) and told them to point it out where the chemicals being stored for it was. That should have ended it there but they moved on to the fuel being the source for them. I'm currently trying to explain to them a) what that chemical make up is versus what they believe it is, b) what that make up is actually used for, and c) just how insanely hot jet turbine engines get.

Moral of the story for Chemtrail believers: Don't get into it with someone actually studying to work on the engines in question.

Well, he's right, in a way. There's quite a lot of water vapor in jet exhaust.
Burn hydrocarbons in oxygen, and carbon dioxide and di-hydrogen monoxide are not unexpected results.

Have him do a search on di-hydrogen monoxide if you really want to get him worried.

 

[ehcks]

Dumbass.

^^^ Exhibit A?

Uhhh.. Contrails are also caused by the water vapor created by the burning of jet fuel in the engines. CO2 is another byproduct that does poison the air. He's not wrong. He's just calling them chemtrails, and appears to be making a joke? Looks like something dihydrogen monoxide parody protesters would say.

 

[Mudcat]

Well, he's right, in a way. There's quite a lot of water vapor in jet exhaust.
Burn hydrocarbons in oxygen, and carbon dioxide and di-hydrogen monoxide are not unexpected results.

I see. How is that any different from piston-driven engines?

Have him do a search on di-hydrogen monoxide if you really want to get him worried.

As amusing as that thought is, I don't want to feed their delusions.

 

[TjW]

I see. How is that any different from piston-driven engines?



As amusing as that thought is, I don't want to feed their delusions.

It's not. Piston-engine aircraft that fly at high altitude also leave contrails.
There are photos of contrails left in high altitude dogfights taken during the Battle of Britain.

Antoine St-Exupery makes reference to his reconnaissance airplane leaving contrails in "Flight to Arras." This is a particularly good reference, because the chem-trailers will often say, "Oh, sure, they left temporary contrails, but today, they last for hours, and even get bigger."
St-Ex comments on how the contrails often do that -- and this was written before 1943.

Why not? As you point out, it's amusing. And then, even when they're in a frenzy, most people have enough chemistry to work out what H2O is.
Face it: you're not going to convince them through logic. They didn't reason themselves into their position, they're not going to reason their way out. They have an emotional attachment to it. If you can switch that emotion from smug certainty to embarrassment, they'll at least shut up about it around you.

Contrails are mostly about upper air conditions. I once watched a jetliner leave a dotted line. There was apparently some waviness to the layers, and as the conditions varied, it alternated between leaving contrails and not.

Or maybe someone in the cockpit was just playing with the switch.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Sorry debunkers, but chemtrails are real!

It is a scientific fact, 100% factual, that jet engines release chemical byproducts of combustion. Those chemicals linger in the air and eventually make it down to Earth, poisoning our farms, waters, and communities!

Chemtrails are real!

That would depend on what you define as a poison.

SOx is pretty low, as sulfur is not a common component of jet A fuel

NOx. Is present, and that can form acid rain, although it also helps put nitrates back into the soil.

 

[Mudcat]

It's not.

Well of course not, they're still internal combustion engines like turbine-driven engines are and they both burn hydrocarbon based fuels in order to derive and produce power.

There's nothing mysterious about either type of engine. I was, however, unaware that water was a byproduct. Now that I think on it, though, it does explain why I sometimes see water drip out of exhaust pipes on automobiles.

Piston-engine aircraft that fly at high altitude also leave contrails.
There are photos of contrails left in high altitude dogfights taken during the Battle of Britain.

I've seen those pictures and the pictures of contrails that linger for a while and spread. Which makes claims of Chemtrails even more baffling.

Antoine St-Exupery makes reference to his reconnaissance airplane leaving contrails in "Flight to Arras." This is a particularly good reference, because the chem-trailers will often say, "Oh, sure, they left temporary contrails, but today, they last for hours, and even get bigger."
St-Ex comments on how the contrails often do that -- and this was written before 1943.

I was unaware of that, I'll keep that in mind. Thank you for sharing it.

Why not? As you point out, it's amusing. And then, even when they're in a frenzy, most people have enough chemistry to work out what H2O is.
Face it: you're not going to convince them through logic. They didn't reason themselves into their position, they're not going to reason their way out. They have an emotional attachment to it. If you can switch that emotion from smug certainty to embarrassment, they'll at least shut up about it around you.

Point well taken. Any suggestions on how to phrase it?

 

[LaurelHS]

According to Rense, you can protect yourself against chemtrails by using colloidal silver (they don't say what to do about the possible blue skin you can get from that). Way to compound the woo.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

If you are interested in understanding why some contrails dissipate quickly, while others persist and even spread, google up the term: "Ice Supersaturated Region."

 

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Are you saying jet propulsion engines do not give off chemicals?

I believe your first post was a joke, sarcasm, and nothing else. That said, the problem with "chemtrail" believers is that they attribute an INTENTION behind the "chemicals used".. and of course, that intention is other than transport passengers...

 

[Courier]

I believe your first post was a joke, sarcasm, and nothing else. That said, the problem with "chemtrail" believers is that they attribute an INTENTION behind the "chemicals used".. and of course, that intention is other than transport passengers...

Its a lot easier to argue that they are "chemtrails" because there are hazardous chemicals in the planes' engine emissions.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

"Hazardous" is a relative term.

 

[Kid Eager]

Its a lot easier to argue that they are "chemtrails" because there are hazardous chemicals in the planes' engine emissions.

Why isn't there a conspiracy movement around car exhausts, then? Oh, wait...

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Why isn't there a conspiracy movement around car exhausts, then? Oh, wait...

That will be in the future when we all have flying cars.

 

[Philth53]

When you see water dripping from an exhaust pipe...........all that means is the vehicle in question hasn't been driven or run enough to dry out the exhaust system.

This is the main reason that exhaust systems on cars and trucks rust out.

Phil

 

[JaysonR]

Well...there's some sympathy for understanding the paranoia, considering Project SHAD's controversy.

 

[Philth53]

When you see water dripping from an exhaust pipe...........all that means is the vehicle in question hasn't been driven or run enough to dry out the exhaust system.

This is the main reason that exhaust systems on cars and trucks rust out.

Phil

 

[TjW]

When you see water dripping from an exhaust pipe...........all that means is the vehicle in question hasn't been driven or run enough to dry out the exhaust system.

This is the main reason that exhaust systems on cars and trucks rust out.

Phil

Generally it means that the exhaust system is still cold enough to condense some of the water vapor that is in the exhaust.

 

[Macgyver1968]

What?

 

[Jhau]

What?

What what?

Well...there's some sympathy for understanding the paranoia, considering Project SHAD's controversy.

Other than that the US and other countries tested chemical warfare substances on their own troops, I don't see what's so controversial about it. To be frank, that's not even that controversial, as plenty of armies have tested weapons against their own troops - there's plenty of evidence for US, British and Australian soldiers being exposed to nuclear blasts during weapons testing in the 1940s and 1950s, but I don't recall any conspiracy theories about the government secretly irradiating the population.

Also, it's not as though no-one's ever actually used chemical weapons against soldiers or civilians before - chemical warfare has been recorded as far back as the 15th century, when chemical-dipped cloth was burned to send poisonous clouds of smoke wafting towards the enemy in the siege of Belgrade.

The controversial issue here isn't so much the use of chemical weapons, but the accusation that commercial airliners are busily spraying chemical weapons whilst flying over large civilian populations. Seriously, that's fruitcake territory as it makes no sense, absolutely no sense, whatsoever.