Chain of Custody

[sheeplesnshills]

Let me remind you then. From Harrit e.al.:

[qimg]http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i328/MikeAlfaromeo/ActiveThermiticMaterial/ActiveThermiticMaterial_Fig24.jpg[/qimg]

I stand corrected. Mea culpa.

 

[superlogicalthinker]

Interesting that nobody has touched this!!

in regards to the creation of the spheres:

Still waiting for a comment on the molten concrete. Ignored all day so far.

The floors are vacuumed many times during construction. They must be free of dust before any flooring can be laid down. There might be some iron microspheres inside the columns but not anything close to 6% of the weight of the WTC dust.
There is no data on how many iron microspheres are created by welding so this (your) whole argument is pure wishful thinking.

I am abolutley positive, that someone here will try to say the spheres are fly ash from the lightweight concrete but fly ash is not always used and there is no evidence to establish that it was used during the construction of the Twin Towers. I await someone to post a link and disprove me.

The RJ Lee Group was crystal clear in stating:

iron and lead were melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles

But allot of the posters over here at the JREF have a whole chapter on the RJ Lee report in your "Deniers Play Book" which is enough to waste a lot of time in a debate and fog the issues that should be debated - which is all you can do, but then, that's all that you need to do.....isn't it???

What none of you can dispute is the molten concrete...cmon dispute it!! Please!

Instead you will change the subject or go away and all of Morh's squires will descend upon me like a pack of rabid dogs.

the melting point of concrete varies between 1800-2500°C. (3272-4532 degrees F.)


http://www.weldcare.co.uk/app10.htm

 

[plague311]

in regards to the creation of the spheres:


The floors are vacuumed many times during construction. They must be free of dust before any flooring can be laid down. There might be some iron microspheres inside the columns but not anything close to 6% of the weight of the WTC dust. There is no data on how many iron microspheres are created by welding so this (your) whole argument is pure wishful thinking.

I am abolutley positive, that someone here will try to say the spheres are fly ash from the lightweight concrete but fly ash is not always used and there is no evidence to establish that it was used during the construction of the Twin Towers.

The RJ Lee Group was crystal clear in stating:

iron and lead were melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles

But allot of the posters over here at the JREF have a whole chapter on the RJ Lee report in your "Deniers Play Book" which is enough to waste a lot of time in a debate and fog the issues that should be debated - which is all you can do, but then, that's all that you need to do.....isn't it???

What none of you can dispute is the molten concrete...cmon dispute it!! Please!

Instead you will change the subject or go away and all of Morh's squires will descend upon me like a pack of rabid dogs.

the melting point of concrete varies between 1800-2500°C. (3272-4532 degrees F.)


http://www.weldcare.co.uk/app10.htm

Do you have any experience in construction, be it residential or commercial, at all? You do realize they don't lick the floors clean, or go through with a microscope. You aren't eating off of it, you're just laying some carpet or tile. After the carpet is laid there is still construction going on, especially with the WTC.

As you build multi-floor units, even as small as apt buildings (4-5 floors), it goes in steps. Once the bottom floor is done being sheet rocked, taped and painted that team moves up a floor. Then the flooring guys come through lay the carpet then the finishers come in, etc. They move up, step by step, so when you get to the top the bottom portion is finished product.

While each floor does get cleaned, it doesn't stay that way and, as the construction worker in the 9/11 video states, "There was always construction going on in the towers." To believe that once the floor is cleaned the first time it remains that way is just ludicrous.

 

[triforcharity]

The floors are vacuumed many times during construction. They must be free of dust before any flooring can be laid down.

No, they aren't. They are swept with a broom at best.

However, if you've ever seen a skyscraper or really any building ever being constructed, you would know there are literally hundreds of thousands of nooks and crannys for small particles to hide.

What none of you can dispute is the molten concrete...cmon dispute it!! Please!

Prove it occurred. I'll wait.

 

[NoahFence]

He's been asked to back up his claims many, many times. And like any other truther, it's never going to happen.

 

[tsig]

I am in awe that because one wants to make certain that tests are not being over looked in anyway, he is portrayed as "scared". The fact that another credentialed professional, has the name of Millettte in a document that charges the offense of fraud, along with the EPA ( we all know what happened there) defiantly raises concern.

Whats to say they wont lower the PH level this time too?
The only way to lay this dog to rest is to have both sides present working side by side.
Yes, that is just an opinion. Nevertheless the opinion is valid.

How's your effort to get Jones, et. al to attend the tests working out?

 

[DGM]

So far I think the money I spent on this study is well worth it. "Truthers" are scrambling all over hell looking for ways to dismiss something they've yet to see.

Yeah, That's not paranoid behavior.

 

[A W Smith]

in regards to the creation of the spheres:

Still waiting for a comment on the molten concrete. Ignored all day so far.

The floors are vacuumed many times during construction. They must be free of dust before any flooring can be laid down. There might be some iron microspheres inside the columns but not anything close to 6% of the weight of the WTC dust.
There is no data on how many iron microspheres are created by welding so this (your) whole argument is pure wishful thinking.

I am abolutley positive, that someone here will try to say the spheres are fly ash from the lightweight concrete but fly ash is not always used and there is no evidence to establish that it was used during the construction of the Twin Towers. I await someone to post a link and disprove me.

The RJ Lee Group was crystal clear in stating:

iron and lead were melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles

But allot of the posters over here at the JREF have a whole chapter on the RJ Lee report in your "Deniers Play Book" which is enough to waste a lot of time in a debate and fog the issues that should be debated - which is all you can do, but then, that's all that you need to do.....isn't it???

What none of you can dispute is the molten concrete...cmon dispute it!! Please!

Instead you will change the subject or go away and all of Morh's squires will descend upon me like a pack of rabid dogs.

the melting point of concrete varies between 1800-2500°C. (3272-4532 degrees F.)


http://www.weldcare.co.uk/app10.htm

start your own thread, Once again, you are OFF TOPIC here in this one.

 

[Justin39640]

But nice try. Oh....and thats a Acetylene torch bud, not a lighter.

Actually, bud, that's a butane mini torch (a lighter, some call them "wind proof" lighters). Oxyacetylene torches look nothing like that. No one would design an acetylene torch with a trigger that close to the flame. (Oxyacetylene torches don't use triggers btw, you have to use a striker to light them)

 

[superlogicalthinker]

Here, try this one:

Is that what happened to 6% of the WTC dust which covered all of lower Manhattan?? Ya! It was an abundance of steel wool's in the mechanical room.

 

[superlogicalthinker]

Actually, bud, that's a butane mini torch (a lighter, some call them "wind proof" lighters). Oxyacetylene torches look nothing like that. No one would design an acetylene torch with a trigger that close to the flame. (Oxyacetylene torches don't use triggers btw, you have to use a striker to light them)

Buddy its a torch not a lighter. You can imagine it it JREF land but its just not in reality.

 

[Justin39640]

Buddy its a torch not a lighter. You can imagine it it JREF land but its just not in reality.

I said it's a torch. It's a butane lighter with a turbo-tip aka butane mini torch. Good for soldering and lighting steel wool on fire. It's not an oxyacetylene torch like you think it is... I own both types and several others.

 

[ozeco41]

I said it's a torch. It's a butane lighter with a turbo-tip aka butane mini torch. Good for soldering and lighting steel wool on fire. It's not an oxyacetylene torch like you think it is... I own both types and several others.

Me too.

Whilst "There's none so blind as those who will not see" why do these people keep on trying to lie when corrected on a factor which is not all that important?

 

[beachnut]

in regards to the creation of the spheres:

Still waiting for a comment on the molten concrete. Ignored all day so far.

The floors are vacuumed many times during construction. They must be free of dust before any flooring can be laid down. There might be some iron microspheres inside the columns but not anything close to 6% of the weight of the WTC dust.
There is no data on how many iron microspheres are created by welding so this (your) whole argument is pure wishful thinking.

I am abolutley positive, that someone here will try to say the spheres are fly ash from the lightweight concrete but fly ash is not always used and there is no evidence to establish that it was used during the construction of the Twin Towers. I await someone to post a link and disprove me.

The RJ Lee Group was crystal clear in stating:

iron and lead were melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles

But allot of the posters over here at the JREF have a whole chapter on the RJ Lee report in your "Deniers Play Book" which is enough to waste a lot of time in a debate and fog the issues that should be debated - which is all you can do, but then, that's all that you need to do.....isn't it???

What none of you can dispute is the molten concrete...cmon dispute it!! Please!

Instead you will change the subject or go away and all of Morh's squires will descend upon me like a pack of rabid dogs.

the melting point of concrete varies between 1800-2500°C. (3272-4532 degrees F.)


http://www.weldcare.co.uk/app10.htm

lol, the RJ Lee dust was after clean up. Plus the slag wool, mineral wool, etc...lol more..

After clean up. So! RJ Lee dust had clean up stuff. You lost this round due to not reading the RJ Lee report, and reading is fundamental. Why are you failing all the time. It tool less than 2 years for the Post to get the Pulitzer for Watergate, when will you and 911 truth get your Pulitzer? You support some of the dumbest claims made by 911.


iron and lead were melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles
LOL, this WTC event includes clean up. Failure is yours again, and again. You have got failure down to a science, you never miss. Practice makes perfect. When is that Pulitzer coming? What did you say?

Why would iron be 5.87 percent of the dust when the earth's crust is only 5 percent and you find these samples next to the two biggest steel building in the world? BTW, the earth's crust is where we live; a reminder since you and 911 truth are anti-science and prefer fantasy. Why have you picked the biggest losers in history, next to Hitler, to support? 911 truth failed with their first insane claim, and it only takes knowledge to defeat them, and stop being a gullible follower.

You sure do love to quote-mine stuff. not very logical

 

[Oystein]

Buddy its a torch not a lighter. You can imagine it it JREF land but its just not in reality.

Buddy, you didn't just say it was a torch. You said specifically, and I quote:

But nice try. Oh....and thats a Acetylene torch bud, not a lighter.

To which Justin corrected you:

Actually, bud, that's a butane mini torch (a lighter, some call them "wind proof" lighters). Oxyacetylene torches look nothing like that. No one would design an acetylene torch with a trigger that close to the flame. (Oxyacetylene torches don't use triggers btw, you have to use a striker to light them)

It is once again exceedingly obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about. It was only a few days ago when you were surprised that someone would know how hot an oxyacetylene torch can get. Do you remember that you have already been schooled on the issue of oxyacetylene before?

As has been discussed elsewhere and mentioned even in this thread: the temperature of oxyacetylene torch exceeds 3000 degrees Celsius, therefore no wonder that heated chip (containing polymer binder) was extremely overheated in this way. ...

BTW...you refer to the degree of 3000 C...where in the paper does it say that temperature was reached and the chip was put to resist those temperatures? Nowhere that I see.

Ivan knows what an Oxyacetylene torch is and that "Acetylene when combined with oxygen burns at a temperature of 3200 °C to 3500 °C (5800 °F to 6300 °F), highest among commonly used gaseous fuels" (Wikipedia).

Yet you chose to once again display your ignorance. Apparently you STILL don't know what's special about an oxyacetylene torch. But instead of saying "thank you for schooling me", you talk back to people who know a million times more about the issue than you. That behaviour is more than merely stupid. It's idiocy. If you act like that in real life, you will fail in life, fail often, and fail badly.

 

[Miragememories]

"lol, the RJ Lee dust was after clean up. Plus the slag wool, mineral wool, etc...lol more..

After clean up. So! RJ Lee dust had clean up stuff. You lost this round due to not reading the RJ Lee report, and reading is fundamental. Why are you failing all the time. It tool less than 2 years for the Post to get the Pulitzer for Watergate, when will you and 911 truth get your Pulitzer? You support some of the dumbest claims made by 911.


iron and lead were melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles
LOL, this WTC event includes clean up. Failure is yours again, and again. You have got failure down to a science, you never miss. Practice makes perfect. When is that Pulitzer coming? What did you say?

Why would iron be 5.87 percent of the dust when the earth's crust is only 5 percent and you find these samples next to the two biggest steel building in the world? BTW, the earth's crust is where we live; a reminder since you and 911 truth are anti-science and prefer fantasy. Why have you picked the biggest losers in history, next to Hitler, to support? 911 truth failed with their first insane claim, and it only takes knowledge to defeat them, and stop being a gullible follower.

You sure do love to quote-mine stuff. not very logical"

And you certainly like to misrepresent the truth.

The RJ Lee report provides provocative data regarding the abundance of observed iron-rich spheres. A WTC dust sample acquired at 130 Liberty Street shows a “mean of composition” of “Fe spheres” of 5.87% which is very high compared with “Fe spheres” found in ordinary building dust of only 0.04% [1]. As the report notes, the WTC dust has unusual identifying characteristics – in particular, the WTC dust in this sample has nearly 150 times (5.87/0.04) the amount of iron-rich spheres as ordinary dust (where Fe spheres can arise from micrometeorites, for example).

The RJ Lee report concludes:

“Various metals (most notably iron and lead) were melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles. Exposure of phases to high heat results in the formation of spherical particles due to surface tension…”

“In addition to the vesicular carbon components, the high heat exposure of the WTC Dust has also created other morphologically specific varieties of particulate matter including spherical metallic, vesicular siliceous and spherical fly ash components. These types of particles are classic examples of high temperature or combustion by-products and are generally absent in typical office dust…”

“Particles of materials that had been modified by exposure to high temperature, such as spherical particles of iron and silicates, are common in WTC Dust because of the fire that accompanied the WTC Event, but are not common in “normal” interior office dust…”

MM

 

[Oystein]

And you certainly like to misrepresent the truth.

The RJ Lee report provides provocative data regarding the abundance of observed iron-rich spheres. A WTC dust sample acquired at 130 Liberty Street shows a “mean of composition” of “Fe spheres” of 5.87% which is very high compared with “Fe spheres” found in ordinary building dust of only 0.04% [1]. As the report notes, the WTC dust has unusual identifying characteristics – in particular, the WTC dust in this sample has nearly 150 times (5.87/0.04) the amount of iron-rich spheres as ordinary dust (where Fe spheres can arise from micrometeorites, for example).

The RJ Lee report concludes:

“In addition to the vesicular carbon components, the high heat exposure of the WTC Dust has also created other morphologically specific varieties of particulate matter including spherical metallic, vesicular siliceous and spherical fly ash components. These types of particles are classic examples of high temperature or combustion by-products and are generally absent in typical office dust…”

“Particles of materials that had been modified by exposure to high temperature, such as spherical particles of iron and silicates, are common in WTC Dust because of the fire that accompanied the WTC Event, but are not common in “normal” interior office dust…”

MM

What you don't understand is that "common office dust" is neither the product of vast fires nor of huge structures collapsing to the tune of hundreds of tons of TNT, but of people walking on carpets, wearing clothes, shuffling paper work, printing dokuments, eating bread, losing hair and skin, turning on the A/C, driving cars etc.
The RJ Lee report explains that in plain and easy words for those willing to understand. I highlighted the sentences that you might want to read again.

 

[chrismohr]

SLT here are my debate notes. In the debate with Gage I had 60 seconds to respond and used these notes to quickly review the evidence as I understood it then. At the time I was unaware how common iron-rich microspheres are in fires

Please show me a reference to formerly molten elemental iron rich micro sphere's which resulted from a fire.

Debunkers speculate the microspheres are from extensive torch-cutting of the debris following the collapse–

What about the sample taken off the Brooklyn Bridge right after it happened?? They didn't do any torch cutting on the BB did they? If so show me by citation.

But back in the early 70s, hundreds of welders involved in the construction of the towers heated the steel with their welding torches to a temperature high enough to build these iron-rich microspheres right into the structure. Richard, do you think the iron microspheres could have come from the welders during the original construction in 1972-73?

No they don't. They're the same micro spheres that appear when you heat the red/gray chip to 430 C.

Hi SLT,
My notes were not clear on this point: I actually looked at and rejected several hypotheses of the source of iron mircospheres in my debate. One was printer toner: rejected. Another was welding torches being used during the debris removal: rejected, for exactly the reasons you say above. I mentioned welding during construction in the 70s as a possible explanation. I do doubt that tiny microscopic iron-rich spheres that splattered then solidified and probably attached themselves to the steel beams at that time could have been swept away with a broom.
The only question I have about melted concrete is: if that "meteorite" had melted concrete, why is there unburned paper stuck in it where the words can still be read? I thought paper burned at 451 degrees? But I have not thoroughly studied the melted concrete issue.
As you can see, there is a lot I don't know in chemistry realms. Ivan and Oystein have had to correct me before, and they just did again. While I doubt we'll find thermitics in the dust, my bias is irrelevant. Jim Millette says he has no opinion on the matter until he does the tests, and he i willing for the tests to come out as they may. I am forwarding him things from this thread, now including the iron microsphere issues and your requests too. I don't want to overwhelm him or tell him how to do his job, but he is receiving and reading things that appear here.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

Me too.

Whilst "There's none so blind as those who will not see" why do these people keep on trying to lie when corrected on a factor which is not all that important?

because if they admit to themselves that they could be mistaken on any point they have to face up to the fact that they may be wrong (and on 911 the are) on everything......
They lack the mental stability to do that so they simply deny deny deny

 

[superlogicalthinker]

iron and lead were melted during the WTC Event, producing spherical metallic particles
LOL, this WTC event includes clean up.

You actually think that this reply is valid? Very sad. When RJ Lee says "during the event" it's a metaphor for during the collapse. Anybody can decipher that. Well, almost anybody.

Why would iron be 5.87 percent of the dust when the earth's crust is only 5 percent and you find these samples next to the two biggest steel building in the world?
[/QUOTE]

LMAO!! 6% of the dust bro....the dust....dust. It is purely in regards to the amount of iron rich micro spheres that were present in the dust. Not 6% of the earths core. That would be a separate thing totally. I understand what you are trying to say but you are comparing the planet to the WTC 1 and 2 towers. You can't do that.

I hope someone can help this poor soul out on this.