carlson test and debunking randi

[Complexity]

idunno - What I'd like is for you to come to your senses and give up this astrology nonsense.

You'll never accept any test outcome as suggestive that astrology is wrong and useless - you will always cheerfully explain it away and come up with a new test that you want us to try.

What I'd like from you is an explanation of the mechanism that you propose for the operation of astrology: exactly how do the positions of the planets and whatnot affect the character, personality, and destiny of a person?

 

[drkitten]

We just need one more peson to get the number back to seven, in which case the odds in this test would be 1 in 5040: five times harder than the minimum odds for the million dollar challenge preliminary tests.

Yes.... but we could equally run a much more powerful test (with more room for error/malice on the respondants' parts).

Think of it this way.... suppose a single participant in our hypothetical test, for reasons best known to himself, decided to lie like a rug and write down total gibberish. As a result, idunno makes one mistake -- two, really -- and misidentifies this person with one other participant. The results instantly drop substantially; he's identified five out of the seven correctly, which drops his results down to about the 150:1 level.

We can't prevent dishonesty, but we can guard against it. If one person decided to lie in the previous tests, idunno could still have gotten 6 out of 7 correct, which would still have made Randi's magic cutoff.

Basically, I don't see what the advantage is to running the modified est that will compensate for the lack of power. You're welcome to convince me -- or idunno -- but I just don't see it....

 

[Lennyhipp]

clearing up your confusion...

what was your identity on youtube?

oh! Sorry! Yeah, i can see where that could throw you off... The identity i used on over 400 comments to JY's videos on YouTube was "lennyhipp".

edit: If you've read ANY of the comments on ANY of JY's videos, I would imagine you would have come across more than a few of mine!

Len

 

[Lennyhipp]

response...

Lennyhip - I asked idunno much earlier in this thread if he was in fact James Young; something he (idunno) has denied..

I saw that earlier... i've read every post because the Carlson Test and JY interest me... I seriously doubt it's possibly him though... I'd reckognize the thought patterns/ "speaking". JY couldn't last this long without A)Sounding like a complete loon B) Showing his very short temper for critics C)Nor would he have willingly have been tested!

What you note is most interesting though.

Yeah... I thought so too. Same exact thing Chadow had done/said as well! (with equally bad results you wont be surprised to find out!)

LH

 

[drkitten]

Bump. Specifically, I just wanted to ask idunno if he was planning to submit Western horoscopes for the remaining 6 participants or not.

Idunno, a statement from you on this subject would be appreciated.

 

[idunno]

Idunno, a statement from you on this subject would be appreciated.

yes i will, but since i have to do the interpretations in the net it will take more time.
if you want add one more participant.

one reason i dont have much trust in skeptics is that proving astrology would mean you have to accept the paranormal, and too many people here have invested their energy in debunking paranormal stuff.

 

[idunno]

idunno - What I'd like is for you to come to your senses and give up this astrology nonsense.

You'll never accept any test outcome as suggestive that astrology is wrong and useless - you will always cheerfully explain it away and come up with a new test that you want us to try.

What I'd like from you is an explanation of the mechanism that you propose for the operation of astrology: exactly how do the positions of the planets and whatnot affect the character, personality, and destiny of a person?

This is more COMPLEX than you think

 

[sinnikal]

one reason i dont have much trust in skeptics is that proving astrology would mean you have to accept the paranormal, and too many people here have invested their energy in debunking paranormal stuff.

idunno, I think you fundamentally misunderstand 'skepticism'. Skeptics will accept the paranormal when evidence is presented that there is something concrete there. Then , of course, it will become 'normal'.
Bring it on, we're waiting

 

[idunno]

idunno, I think you fundamentally misunderstand 'skepticism'. Skeptics will accept the paranormal when evidence is presented that there is something concrete there. Then , of course, it will become 'normal'.
Bring it on, we're waiting

just sent the western reading to drkitten
3 people have the same sun and rising sign

 

[Professor Yaffle]

just sent the western reading to drkitten
3 people have the same sun and rising sign

Edit: misunderstood what you meant there for a moment (I think).

 

[Locknar]

idunno, I think you fundamentally misunderstand 'skepticism'. Skeptics will accept the paranormal when evidence is presented that there is something concrete there. Then , of course, it will become 'normal'.
Bring it on, we're waiting

sinnikal - I think it more accurate to say that skeptics accept arguments/theory/etc. based on presented evidence. If something such as astrology were proven to be viable/credible, I'd argue it would move from the paranormal to proven science.

After all, that is really the difference between paranormal (something that can not be proven, not repeatable via testing) and science (something that is proven, is repeatable via testing).

 

[idunno]

i just missed my bus so i still have some time.
CA is based on Chi and Yin-Yang.

yang- positive, masculine, man, light,logic
yin- negative, feminine, woman, darkness,intuition

the history of the west has been one of repressing the yin in favor of yang, so
- we repressed women
- wevrepressed the dark races(who normally believe in Wow)
- we ignore the right sideof the brain at our peril, logic is everything, things must be black or white. No greys.
- since we find the more yin night and sleep useless, we try to get rid of it in divese manners, by turning lights on at night, watch TV, or go to Nite clubs filled with lights(yang). And naturally we have sleeping problems cause sleeping is a waste of time.
Since repression is dangerous, the Yin is now getting even. Wow is on rampage, the dark races are deemed sexier and women are taking over.
Only natural.

funny that nobody commented on this?????

 

[drkitten]

funny that nobody commented on this?

Not especially funny that no one commented on that post. The post is total, unadulerated, 100% happy horsemanure; it's complete bollocks from beginning to end, and everyone who read it is now stupider than they were before they began.

 

[sackett]

funny that nobody commented on this...

Okay, I'll bite. Are you talking about the I Ching?

 

[sinnikal]

sinnikal - I think it more accurate to say that skeptics accept arguments/theory/etc. based on presented evidence. If something such as astrology were proven to be viable/credible, I'd argue it would move from the paranormal to proven science.

Locknar - you're right, it is more accurate and less clumsy than my not-awake-yet mumble.
Thanks, you did a good thing

 

[Madalch]

Idunno- I have a suggested test for you.

I am the proud father of a pair of twins, born in the same geographical location within an hour or so of each other. If I give you exact details of the place and their times of birth, can you tell me what (if any) personality differences we should observe between the two of them?

Edit to add: If you suspect I might cheat, I can send my answer as a PM to, say drkitten or Locknar before you start casting your horoscope.

 

[drkitten]

Okay, I'll bite. Are you talking about the I Ching?

No, he's not. The I Ching is one method of divination that makes a lot of noise about yin/yang, but the soi-disant principles extend to many other realms of Chinese paranormality, including astrology, alchemy, martial arts, medicine, and so forth. I've even seen a couple of cookbooks that talk about yin and yang in the context of flavor contrasts.

I believe the earliest extant writings that we have on yin and yang are actually medical texts. For suitably relaxed definitions of "medicine," of course.

 

[idunno]

Idunno- I have a suggested test for you.

I am the proud father of a pair of twins, born in the same geographical location within an hour or so of each other. If I give you exact details of the place and their times of birth, can you tell me what (if any) personality differences we should observe between the two of them?

Edit to add: If you suspect I might cheat, I can send my answer as a PM to, say drkitten or Locknar before you start casting your horoscope.

okee dokee

 

[idunno]

Not especially funny that no one commented on that post. The post is total, unadulerated, 100% happy horsemanure; it's complete bollocks from beginning to end, and everyone who read it is now stupider than they were before they began.

please be specific!!! Dont just laugh it away

 

[drkitten]

please be specific!!!

It is specifically happy horse manure.

The concepts of "yin" and "yang" have no observable basis in reality; they're simply lumping together several unrelated concepts. I might as well define the word "zurp" as meaning "related to football, painted green, larger than twenty stories tall, or battery-operated" and then note that the increase in the number of football teams, the increasing size of buildings, and the increasing number of battery-operated things all show a dangerous increase in the amount of zurp in the world that can only be addressed by painting green things in another color.

The "right side"/"left side" dichotomy you cite is a discredited (false) popularization of science, up there with the "10% of our brain" myth -- as is the disctinction you draw between "logic" and "intuition" (check out some of the psych research on how people actually solve "logic" puzzles; start with Wason's four-card task).

Basically, very few of the statements you make have any basis in reality. Most of it doesn't even rise to the dignity of error.

It is -- specifically -- a load of fetid dingo's kidneys that is not worth addressing in any greater specificity. It is intellectually vacuous when not actively wrong, and has all the conceptual merit of a half cup of warm spit. I would express myself with greater strength but there is that pesky new Membership agreement and I have no wish to face a suspension for telling you just how asinine it is.