carlson test and debunking randi

Ideally, they shouldn't even know that astrology is being tested.

If you will excuse me, I need to go administer CPR to my local Human Subjects Committee chair. He found your suggestion.... um, exciting. Yeah, that's the word. Exciting.
 
If you will excuse me, I need to go administer CPR to my local Human Subjects Committee chair. He found your suggestion.... um, exciting. Yeah, that's the word. Exciting.

i just missed my bus so i still have some time.
CA is based on Chi and Yin-Yang.

yang- positive, masculine, man, light,logic
yin- negative, feminine, woman, darkness,intuition

the history of the west has been one of repressing the yin in favor of yang, so
- we repressed women
- wevrepressed the dark races(who normally believe in Wow)
- we ignore the right sideof the brain at our peril, logic is everything, things must be black or white. No greys.
- since we find the more yin night and sleep useless, we try to get rid of it in divese manners, by turning lights on at night, watch TV, or go to Nite clubs filled with lights(yang). And naturally we have sleeping problems cause sleeping is a waste of time.
Since repression is dangerous, the Yin is now getting even. Wow is on rampage, the dark races are deemed sexier and women are taking over.
Only natural.:cool:
 
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idunno, I find many of your comment puzzling.

--IDUNNO: --protective parents usually disagree with our decisions.They supported you so i would classify this one as «Yes»

What I don't understand is that I get "too much support"... but my parents have barely done a thing for me since I moved out. If they actively support me, I get support, if they merely "agree to disagree" and do next to nothing... it counts as support too? Is there any way this part of the reading would have yielded a "no", short of all ties being broken or our relationship being dysfunctionnal?

IDUNNO:----this one is typical of too much parent element. The lack of motivation should be duesto the easy life parents give you. You may call it protection or not

Are you excluding any other source that could explain my lack of motivation? Because it certainly sounds like it. Though I am wondering why the reason provided by your reading should trump any other explanation, based on what little you know of me.

IDUNNO:----A Yes. The friends dont have to be new and people with such chart wanrt to get rid of family as soon as possible

Nonsense. You said "should seek friends to escape family influence". I didn't want to escape family influence until several years after I made the friends I still have to this day. My friends had little, if anything to do with "escaping family influence". Heck, I didn't even actively pursue "escaping family influence": it happened, that's all. At one point in my life, I realized I didn't share my parents' worldview, and that was it.

You are taking the statement "should seek friends to escape from family influence" and turned it into "having friends" and "wanting to get rid of family". The first is true, I have friend (shocking!). The second is patently false. I still love my family. I disagree with my parents' worldview, that is all. We still have supper together every other week and have lots of fun.

To reiterate: my friends have nothing to do with my family. There is and was no drama surrounding me adopting a different worldview from my parents.

--IDUNNO:--Another yes. As i mentioned in one chart, when the creative element is in the hidden part of the chart the talents arent visible to the world so we must create the oportunities. I have a similar chart and do that all time, otherwise nobody would know about my artistic skills as i had little oportunity to make them public. Also, we`re often afraid of coming out and show talenyts

Who doesn't have to work to create opportunities for their artistic talents to be expressed?! Is there any way your reading could have been negative, short of someone being born the son of a famous rock start and as such being able to rake in contracts just because of his name?

These explanations seem crafted for one thing and one thing only: to rake as large as possible. Have friends? Think differently from your parents? Then you "should seek friends to escape family influence"! :rolleyes:

I'll tackle the western reading later this afternoon. It should be fun, from what I could gather in a first quick read.
 
If you will excuse me, I need to go administer CPR to my local Human Subjects Committee chair. He found your suggestion.... um, exciting. Yeah, that's the word. Exciting.

Oooh. Down Kitten. Bad sarcasm!

I can see a fairly simple way to do this, much like the test you have just moderated. Simply pay a bunch of college students a nominal fee, like $20 to fill out a questionaire which includes date/time/location of birth as well as a bunch of unrelated questions ("what is your favorite color", e.g.) Try to get a cross section of nationalities and cultures (fairly easy to do at colleges). Remove everything but the birth info from the questionaires and give them to an astrologer to run the charts. Scrub the charts (like you did) and then have the students pick theirs. In short, just like what you did, but without knowledge of what was being tested.

It would be an easy and (relatively) inexpensive student project.
 
thats why i dont like this type of reading...it fits me about 60%:)


That's precisely my point: it probably fits most people well enough for them to ignore the misses, especially when you take into account that it is saying nice things. So if it's presented to somebody as their reading, they'll probably think it fits.
 
Allrighty, so to save us all time, I will only comment on the hits/near hits/other tidbits I want to comment on. Everything I have edited out of the reading I consider a miss.

This is especially true in love, and you put your whole heart into your affections.

I guess so. Having had 3 serious crushes, that lead to 2 girlfriends, that lead to 1 wife, I certainly hope I am "passionate" in a sense.

You know you are to be trusted, and you view others in the same light.

First part true, second part depends highly on a variety of factor. From my experience, I am more trustful than many, but I'm far from being naively trustful.

You were born with a natural disposition to be humane, sympathetic, original and refined in your dealings with others.

I really hate "you were born with" statements. If it's true, hit! If it's a miss, blame your upbringing.

The common Aquarian is good and kindly, but usually led astray by eccentric and bizarre companions.

I also dislike statements such as the above. If it's true, hit! If it's a miss, well, it was just a generalization about "common Aquarians", not necessarily you, so disregard it.

Although changeable in appearance, your life is guided by very definite and fixed principles, one of which is a constant demand for personal freedom.

This could be interpreted in so many different ways that I cannot comment on it.

You have a very airy, intelectual personality as air is very strong in your chart

What the heck is a airy person? A orilla?
 
A test like the one you just took eliminates most of that problem since the target doesn't know what he is reading and is required to pick the one closest to his actual characteristics. The only way negation bias would come into play would be if the targets were intentionally choosing the reading least like themselves. I seriously doubt that many people here would do that. Still, it would be best if the pool of targets were people who had no knowledge or opinions of astrology. Ideally, they shouldn't even know that astrology is being tested.

Unfortunately, we cannot produce those conditions here. Of course, if astrology had any practical basis, like suppose it could identify who would do certain jobs well, then grant money would be easy to come by for such a study. Employers would love to have such a useful tool.


I wonder what would happen if you instructed the participants to pick the chart most unlike themselves.
 
That's precisely my point: it probably fits most people well enough for them to ignore the misses, especially when you take into account that it is saying nice things. So if it's presented to somebody as their reading, they'll probably think it fits.

This probably explains why skeptics always say "Nah, not me mate"
A skeptical mindset will immediately register the misses as well as the hits, they are less likely to be blinded by the glare of the glittery bits.
 
Chinese astrology has nothing to do with the stars. The word Fortune- telling is more appropriate.

The studies have shown that there is no correlation between the time and location of birth and personality profiles. It doesn't matter if you use the stars and planets or numerology, the results are still bogus.

You have taken your shot to prove science wrong and failed. Why should you be given another chance? If you try enough times, eventually the probability will fall in your favor and you will succeed. Why should you be given a chance to proclaim a success when you don't accept your failures?
 
The studies have shown that there is no correlation between the time and location of birth and personality profiles. It doesn't matter if you use the stars and planets or numerology, the results are still bogus.

You have taken your shot to prove science wrong and failed. Why should you be given another chance? If you try enough times, eventually the probability will fall in your favor and you will succeed. Why should you be given a chance to proclaim a success when you don't accept your failures?

Hey, it took Edison something like 1000 failures to produce a single success with the electric light. Tweaking the experimental setup to try to see if you can rescue victory from the jaws of defeat is a time-honored tradition in science, and the JREF recognizes this as well. Applicants can apply as many times as they like, without prejudice or penalty -- there's simply a one-year wait time in between.

The flip side is that the more one tries and fails, the more likely one's failure is to be a real failure and not simply an experimental fluke. That's the "educational" part of the JREF; showing people that lots of others have done this experiment and failed at it.

I see no reason to force idunno to wait a year before he tries again; I'm fairly confident that the results won't be substantially different given a second or third bite at the cherry. While my patience isn't limitless (by the fifth or so, I'm likely to suggest that a new moderator be picked), I've not exhausted it yet.

However, I would like to draw everyone's attention to the very important statistical concept called "post-hoc analysis." Basically, if you want to keep taking bites at the cherry, the generally accepted standards for "success" keep getting higher and higher. Any decent statistician or psychologist can provide the technical details (Beth? You around?). In particular --- you know that doing twenty trials and pointing at one 5% success isn't impressive. I know it. Now (I hope) idunno knows it too....
 
Hey, it took Edison something like 1000 failures to produce a single success with the electric light.
No, the electric light was around long before Edison. His contribution was to tweak the electric light to make it commercially viable. The equivalent would be to have some known astrological principles that were demonstrably valid and through experimentation develop a process to produce horoscopes that are near 100% accurate.

I agree with the rest of your post though.
 
hi
an astrology reading may look vague but one thing that shouldnt be vague is sun and ascendant meaning.
the sun is a bit like the self, what we identify with or want to be in youth, whereas the ascendant is our mask but not only a mask as it is related with our body and our early personality.This personality usually becomes stronger again around age 40 or later.

if you are an aries you aspire to be a pioneer, show your assertyiveness and courage, but if taurus is rising you may become a lazy bastard, a gourmet, a pleasure seeker later on as adulthood settles in.
We all have a bit of all Astrological archtypes but the ones related to Sun and ascendant sign should be stronger. Check in any free astrology site if your sun and ascendant archtypes fit you stronger than the others.
Ill make a test based on this soon:)
 
Allrighty, so to save us all time, I will only comment on the hits/near hits/other tidbits I want to comment on. Everything I have edited out of the reading I consider a miss.



I guess so. Having had 3 serious crushes, that lead to 2 girlfriends, that lead to 1 wife, I certainly hope I am "passionate" in a sense.



First part true, second part depends highly on a variety of factor. From my experience, I am more trustful than many, but I'm far from being naively trustful.



I really hate "you were born with" statements. If it's true, hit! If it's a miss, blame your upbringing.



I also dislike statements such as the above. If it's true, hit! If it's a miss, well, it was just a generalization about "common Aquarians", not necessarily you, so disregard it.



This could be interpreted in so many different ways that I cannot comment on it.



What the heck is a airy person? A orilla?

being a libra with aquarius rising, you must put on a peaceful and diplomatic front but be prone to intrigue in the background. Relationships and finding the right partner are most important at least in youth. U are fascinated by all aspects of human relationships, and try to give an image of balance, serenety and hate agressive people.
the aquarius gives you a more unconventional, original side and like unconventional relationships, freedom in relationships.No emotional heaviness here. All is light and easygoing.is this accurate?;)
 
being a libra with aquarius rising, you must put on a peaceful and diplomatic front but be prone to intrigue in the background. Relationships and finding the right partner are most important at least in youth. U are fascinated by all aspects of human relationships, and try to give an image of balance, serenety and hate agressive people.
the aquarius gives you a more unconventional, original side and like unconventional relationships, freedom in relationships.No emotional heaviness here. All is light and easygoing.is this accurate?;)


Humm....I'm neither libra or aquarius, yet what you wrote is so general & overall self serving that I'd argue it would fit most folks.

All you are doing now is rehashing your original reading, based on feedback, trying to explain what you "really meant"…after enough re-interpretation you’re bound to meet with success of some sort eventually.
 
Humm....I'm neither libra or aquarius, yet what you wrote is so general & overall self serving that I'd argue it would fit most folks.

All you are doing now is rehashing your original reading, based on feedback, trying to explain what you "really meant"…after enough re-interpretation you’re bound to meet with success of some sort eventually.

no the other rading is from astro.com, or are you referring to the CA chart?:p
 

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