Cannabis commercialization question

[Thomas]

Ok.

So you are just arguing over indoor vs outdoor growing? Shouldn't you take it to a dedicated cannabis cultivation forum?

No, because there's a price difference you see

 

[BNRT]

Ding-ding-ding.. Johnny, we have a winner!

Reading a bit closer, I feel I have to add that does not mean that higher quality will become non-existent. You'll probably have a range to choose from, just like beer or wine, which may be better or worse than what you can grow at home, but at a fraction of the time invested.

 

[WildCat]

Yes, absolute nonsense. Because the strains are designed for various properties. Properties that you seem to be ignorant of. Some are bred for outdoors cultivation and some for indoor. It's not algebra for university students.

News flash: all varieties were developed for outdoor cultivation. Your Cannabis Cup winner is likely just a slightly different indica cultivar from a strain developed by growers in Afghanistan for the last few thousand years.

You do realize that "hydro" isn't actually a strain, don't you?

Good, then take your outdoors weed to the next Cannabis Cup and watch yourself getting laughed to the door.

Since all entries must by necessity be grown in the cool climate of the Netherlands it's not surprising if indoor dominates there.

They are due to run 27/4 for certain periods, which is what is implied from whatever post you're quoting from.

Which doesn't add to the potency of the flowers one single bit.

 

[DreadNiK]

No, because there's a price difference you see

Please elaborate

 

[Uncayimmy]

Do you accept that some users will view it as an inferior 'type'?

Do you accept that marketing will change perceptions? Do you accept that once you allow experts in the field to start tweaking the plants that the quality of product and efficiency of production will increase?

You seem somewhat unaware of the distinction between sinsemilla skunk and non-sinsemilla.

I'm just not following this train of thought. Whatever people currently do now in the black market can be done in the legal market with the primary difference being that in an open market, many more minds will be attacking the problem with far superior resources.

 

[WildCat]

Do you accept that some users will view it as an inferior 'type'?

"Some"? Anyone would. But that's a product not of being grown outdoorsa, but of not removing the male plants. Indoor marijuana will also produce seeds if pollinated.

You seem somewhat unaware of the distinction between sinsemilla skunk and non-sinsemilla.

The only difference is the presence of seeds. Sinsemilla literally means "seedless".

I was thinking they might be able to tax it by weight or more sensibly 'thc amount'. But even then is the amount of thc the only factor in the perceived 'quality'?

Taste is important, as is the actual high which is the result of not just THC but other compounds as well.

 

[DreadNiK]

News flash: all varieties were developed for outdoor cultivation. Your Cannabis Cup winner is likely just a slightly different indica cultivar from a strain developed by growers in Afghanistan for the last few thousand years.

You do realize that "hydro" isn't actually a strain, don't you?


Since all entries must by necessity be grown in the cool climate of the Netherlands it's not surprising if indoor dominates there.


Which doesn't add to the potency of the flowers one single bit.

I was just thinking about that. I heard they grow some pretty mean stuff out in like SA and other very sunny places.

Can't we find some sources here?

Hmm discussion forums revealing mild disagreement. A blog post noting other differences mostly of convenience. Wikipedia suggests little difference...more disagreements of hydro vs soil...afaik hydro doesn't have to mean indoors.

Found no rigorous comparisons either by scientific or perceived quality measures yet. Would we want perceived quality per weight, per unit of currency per weight, thc to weight ratio?

Still confused.

 

[DreadNiK]

"Some"? Anyone would. But that's a product not of being grown outdoorsa, but of not removing the male plants. Indoor marijuana will also produce seeds if pollinated.

Yes, but you were suggesting why that would mean outdoor (while illegal so hard to tend frequently) would be lower quality, because it would get pollinated more often - but I don't think that's valid since you'd compare non-pollinated vs pollinated

The only difference is the presence of seeds. Sinsemilla literally means "seedless".

I was strongly under the impression there was a difference in potency due to the plant using the energy it would have used for pollen on the bud. Still we get again down to the question of what is potency - is it purely volume of THC and how easy is that to measure?

Taste is important, as is the actual high which is the result of not just THC but other compounds as well.

Yup. It is important to some people therefore it is important. And there's the sativa/indica/hybrid distinctions

 

[WildCat]

Do you accept that marketing will change perceptions? Do you accept that once you allow experts in the field to start tweaking the plants that the quality of product and efficiency of production will increase?

Humans have been tweaking these plants for thousands of years, there's not much more to be gained unless you want to genetically engineer them to be resistant to pesticides or disease. Frankenjuana!

I don't see much need to "increase efficiency" of a product which would require only 1,500 acres or so to satisfy the entire US demand.

I'm just not following this train of thought. Whatever people currently do now in the black market can be done in the legal market with the primary difference being that in an open market, many more minds will be attacking the problem with far superior resources.

How have these minds improved, say, oregano in the last 100 years?

 

[DreadNiK]

Do you accept that marketing will change perceptions? Do you accept that once you allow experts in the field to start tweaking the plants that the quality of product and efficiency of production will increase?


I'm just not following this train of thought. Whatever people currently do now in the black market can be done in the legal market with the primary difference being that in an open market, many more minds will be attacking the problem with far superior resources.

???

What do you think my position is? What do you think I'm even debating here? I think you've got the wrong end of the stick somehow as I don't understand the relevance of your response here...

 

[Thomas]

News flash: all varieties were developed for outdoor cultivation. Your Cannabis Cup winner is likely just a slightly different indica cultivar from a strain developed by growers in Afghanistan for the last few thousand years.

Wrong again, some are bred specifically for indoor operations, consider this list..

http://www.canaseed.com/SeedsDetails.aspx?pid=31&content=Yes

Some says: indoor, others say, both.. Understand?

You do realize that "hydro" isn't actually a strain, don't you?

Would you like to show me where I indicated that, or just retract your pathetic attempt to make it look as if?

Since all entries must by necessity be grown in the cool climate of the Netherlands it's not surprising if indoor dominates there.


Which doesn't add to the potency of the flowers one single bit.

You're wrong, the seeds are transported to the Netherlands quite legit and then grown there, so the thousands of judges can decide from a worldwide perspective. Would you like to talk about anything you know something about now?

 

[Thomas]

Please elaborate

The price will be higher for indoor cultivated marijuana since it demands artificial lights, humidity control etc etc.

 

[Dr. Keith]

You're wrong, the seeds are transported to the Netherlands quite legit and then grown there, so the thousands of judges can decide from a worldwide perspective. Would you like to talk about anything you know something about now?

Isn't that exactly what he said? Grown in the Netherlands.

For some reason, I get the feeling that in more temperate regions the distinction between indoor and outdoor grown product would fade quickly. Say, 2/3 of the United States?

Everyone I know who smokes would be happy to plant a small garden at their lake house if only it wouldn't be confiscated, the lake house that is. And yes, everyone I know who smokes owns a lake house. they seem to go hand in hand in my rather small sampling.

 

[Thomas]

Isn't that exactly what he said? Grown in the Netherlands.

Well, it sort of was, wasn't it.. The score is now 12-1 to Denmark.

For some reason, I get the feeling that in more temperate regions the distinction between indoor and outdoor grown product would fade quickly. Say, 2/3 of the United States?

Everyone I know who smokes would be happy to plant a small garden at their lake house if only it wouldn't be confiscated, the lake house that is. And yes, everyone I know who smokes owns a lake house. they seem to go hand in hand in my rather small sampling.

And what about thieves? And the quality of the product?

Do you think people would make premium bourbon in their backyard if they could? Well, perhaps they would, if they had a laser fence to keep thieves out.

 

[This is The End]

There was a show on PBS a few days ago about this very argument (the off topic argument from this page, not the original topic)..... and potatoes!

I believe you can watch it at the link at the end of this article, but it seems to be down.

...or perhaps here

 

[GeeMack]

For some reason, I get the feeling that in more temperate regions the distinction between indoor and outdoor grown product would fade quickly. Say, 2/3 of the United States?

Yes. As Wildcat has mentioned, when the risk of legal complications is no longer a factor, people will happily take advantage of the superior quality of real sunlight.

Everyone I know who smokes would be happy to plant a small garden at their lake house if only it wouldn't be confiscated, the lake house that is. And yes, everyone I know who smokes owns a lake house. they seem to go hand in hand in my rather small sampling.

When marijuana is legal it will be like growing cucumbers, green beans, or tomatoes. And just like tomatoes when they're ripe and ready to pick, everyone who grows it will be giving some away to their friends and neighbors.

 

[BenBurch]

Wildcat is right.

It's genetics.

As I understand matters;

Good seed just put in the ground and left to its own devices makes good plants. Poor seed makes poor plants. Period. You can smoke Indiana ditchweed until your lungs seize up and get nothing at all from it. This does not stop dozens of idiots from getting arrested trying to harvest it each year.

The only major differences in growing techniques are yield. and the length of time the female plant waits to be fertilized.

A female plant that is never allowed to produce seed is always more potent than its sister plant which gets pollenated.

Once a plant starts producing seed it's done changing in potency and the only place to go then is down.

In this regard indoor plants can be more easily kept from pollen by identifying and killing the males before they flower.

Outdoors you are at the mercy of the winds unless you tie plastic bags around each growing bud. And most outdoor operations are intended to be unattended from planting to harvest because of prohibition, so almost all outdoor plant is seedy.

I have an old friend who grows medical marijuana near San Francisco and she has been a wealth of knowledge on this topic over the years.

 

[Thomas]

Wildcat is right.

It's genetics.

As I understand matters;

Good seed just put in the ground and left to its own devices makes good plants. Poor seed makes poor plants. Period. You can smoke Indiana ditchweed until your lungs seize up and get nothing at all from it. This does not stop dozens of idiots from getting arrested trying to harvest it each year.

The only major differences in growing techniques are yield. and the length of time the female plant waits to be fertilized.

A female plant that is never allowed to produce seed is always more potent than its sister plant which gets pollenated.

Once a plant starts producing seed it's done changing in potency and the only place to go then is down.

In this regard indoor plants can be more easily kept from pollen by identifying and killing the males before they flower.

Outdoors you are at the mercy of the winds unless you tie plastic bags around each growing bud. And most outdoor operations are intended to be unattended from planting to harvest because of prohibition, so almost all outdoor plant is seedy.

I have an old friend who grows medical marijuana near San Francisco and she has been a wealth of knowledge on this topic over the years.

We have reached a point where you buy feminized seeds, welcome to the year 2010.

 

[BenBurch]

We have reached a point where you buy feminized seeds, welcome to the year 2010.

Seriously? That passed me by.

 

[WildCat]

Wrong again, some are bred specifically for indoor operations, consider this list..

http://www.canaseed.com/SeedsDetails.aspx?pid=31&content=Yes

Some says: indoor, others say, both.. Understand?

The only reason one is indoor and one is outdoor is the height of the plant. Indica is short plants, which are what you want to grow indoors. Sativa grows tall, up to 20', so unless you have 25' ceilings this won't be what you want to grow indoors. Indica/sativa mixes can be either depending on how tall they get.

*It has nothing to do with the lighting.

Would you like to show me where I indicated that, or just retract your pathetic attempt to make it look as if?

For starters, you started off comparing skumk to "field weed", and attributed the difference not to genetics but to indoor/outdoor. So forgive me if I'm not sure you know wat you're talking about.

You're wrong, the seeds are transported to the Netherlands quite legit and then grown there, so the thousands of judges can decide from a worldwide perspective. Would you like to talk about anything you know something about now?

Exactly - grown there. That was my entire point, wasn't it?

*eta: except of course the difficulty of lighting the full length of a 12' high plant with lights.