Mid
Graduate Poster
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- Jun 11, 2005
- Messages
- 1,123
Having watched QI on BBC2 on Friday I've got to ask, do you have evidence to back this up?
A quick google would seem to disagree, but I'm no medical expert.
Having watched QI on BBC2 on Friday I've got to ask, do you have evidence to back this up?
A quick google would seem to disagree, but I'm no medical expert.
Morrigan
Crone of War
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2006
- Messages
- 8,262
I have never been drunk in my entire life (I'm 24). I don't like alcohol (of all of those I've tasted - and that includes beer, various wines, tia maria, porto and a few others - the only one I found even remotely drinkable was beer), and I don't care about getting drunk, so I just don't drink at all.
Yet, nosho, I think your posts are full of crap. People react "negatively" to your posts not because anything you say hits a nerve, but because they're full of logical fallacies, baseless assumptions and pretentiousness disguised as faux-modesty. There is also a strong implication that people who drink are "brainwashed" by media, "like robots", which is insulting no matter how you spin it.
A good refutation of your post was the comparison with Internet addiction, or porn, or other "cravings" that can be "dangerous". You haven't replied to that. Other refutations include the comparison with Saudi Arabia and Iran (so much for the "culture of drinking"). I'll add my own: your notion of a "culture of drink" is absurd. Drinking alcohol is pretty much universal (despite religious taboos, as we can see with Euromutt's post, that really doesn't stop people much).
People have been drinking, and getting drunk, for ages. You only have to look at Dionysus and various pagan rituals involving wine to know that it's nothing new. Excessive drinking... I doubt Roman orgies were done totally sober, hmm. While it could be that some cultures have a stronger presence of alcohol than others, I don't think it has anything to do with the media exposure. After all, the media doesn't invent anything, it just throws at us what we already know.
Yet, nosho, I think your posts are full of crap. People react "negatively" to your posts not because anything you say hits a nerve, but because they're full of logical fallacies, baseless assumptions and pretentiousness disguised as faux-modesty. There is also a strong implication that people who drink are "brainwashed" by media, "like robots", which is insulting no matter how you spin it.
A good refutation of your post was the comparison with Internet addiction, or porn, or other "cravings" that can be "dangerous". You haven't replied to that. Other refutations include the comparison with Saudi Arabia and Iran (so much for the "culture of drinking"). I'll add my own: your notion of a "culture of drink" is absurd. Drinking alcohol is pretty much universal (despite religious taboos, as we can see with Euromutt's post, that really doesn't stop people much).
People have been drinking, and getting drunk, for ages. You only have to look at Dionysus and various pagan rituals involving wine to know that it's nothing new. Excessive drinking... I doubt Roman orgies were done totally sober, hmm. While it could be that some cultures have a stronger presence of alcohol than others, I don't think it has anything to do with the media exposure. After all, the media doesn't invent anything, it just throws at us what we already know.
wine guards against lung cancer
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/96/103567.htm
wine reduces cardiovascular disease
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/14/1671_51501.htm
wine reduces against prostate cancer
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/94/102796.htm
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/96/103567.htm
wine reduces cardiovascular disease
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/14/1671_51501.htm
wine reduces against prostate cancer
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/94/102796.htm
kalen
Your Daddy
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2004
- Messages
- 933
One of the best sites around: Modern Drunkard Magazine
Yes, some thoughts are irresponsible, but I think them anyway.
Same with beer and wine. I like 'em, and have no need to stop enjoying them. So I enjoy them. Is it "responsible?"
Not to you, but I'm not here to make you happy.
Sorry. Those are my irresponsible thoughts.
Sally
Critical Thinker
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2006
- Messages
- 387
I admit I did not read much after the first page. The orginal poster seemed a bit hung up on some issues involving themselves and those close to them.
I just wanted to added who drinking enhances my life personally. The $500 I left with in tips friday night from bartending is going to go to this months rent. Drinkers are providing a roof over my head and I am very thankful for them.
I just wanted to added who drinking enhances my life personally. The $500 I left with in tips friday night from bartending is going to go to this months rent. Drinkers are providing a roof over my head and I am very thankful for them.
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
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- Sep 10, 2006
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If you drink alcohol, you have a serious problem.
That stuff tastes so gross, why would you want to
!
That stuff tastes so gross, why would you want to
!Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
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- 38,527
If you do not drink Scotch, you have a serious problem. That stuff tastes so good, why would you not want to drink it?If you drink alcohol, you have a serious problem.
That stuff tastes so gross, why would you want to
DR
senorpogo
Master Poster
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- Mar 18, 2006
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- 2,100
Glad to see I'm not the only fan.
As for the OP: I don't know if I could quit drinking for thirty days. I just enjoy it too much. Do I have a problem? Maybe. If I do, it's one of many and I'm okay with that.
Tsukasa Buddha
Other (please write in)
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Ew
! That stuff was the worst! I am mandating my personal preferences here, not yours!ETA:
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I just started reading this thread today. When I read the original post and saw it was a four-pager thread, I wondered "how long did it take for people to start posting drink recipies?" I'm counting the martini discussion somewhere on page two, which led me to mix a Belvedere martini (just a touch of vermouth, with an olive and a pearl onion).
Just one serious point to make to the original poster. Has it occurred to you that one of the ways you can be a good role model is to use alcohol responsibly? Insisting on abstinence as the only acceptable behavior will work no better for alcohol than it will for sex education, and for similar reasons. Whether you agree with it or not, "premarital sex is bad" is not a very effective message for the vast majority of teenagers. Similarly, "all drinking is bad" is a message that kids are going to reject (and for good reason). "It's ok to drink, as long as ..." is a message that has a hope of getting through.
You're welcome. Now I'll take another martini. And please chill the glass first. There's nothing sillier than shaking a martini over ice only to dump it into a room temperature glass (or worse yet, one that's still hot from the dish dryer).
Just one serious point to make to the original poster. Has it occurred to you that one of the ways you can be a good role model is to use alcohol responsibly? Insisting on abstinence as the only acceptable behavior will work no better for alcohol than it will for sex education, and for similar reasons. Whether you agree with it or not, "premarital sex is bad" is not a very effective message for the vast majority of teenagers. Similarly, "all drinking is bad" is a message that kids are going to reject (and for good reason). "It's ok to drink, as long as ..." is a message that has a hope of getting through.
You're welcome. Now I'll take another martini. And please chill the glass first. There's nothing sillier than shaking a martini over ice only to dump it into a room temperature glass (or worse yet, one that's still hot from the dish dryer).
If you drink alcohol, you have a serious problem.
That stuff tastes so gross, why would you want to
Never tried homemade blueberry wine, made from wild blueberries picked in the mountains while glancing up every now and then for a moose to put in the freezer, or to ensure a bear isn't sharing the blueberry patch with you?
A gentle breeze blowing by, with the smells of the mountains rushing by your nose......later rolling the berries down a screen to separate them from leaves and stems......the smells of the berries fermenting in the pot................
You don't know what you're missing................
ClintonHammond
Unregistered
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2006
- Messages
- 867
" Can you stop drinking?"
I MIGHT stop drinking when I'm dead.... MIGHT!!
Until then, if you don't like my fire
Don't come around
I MIGHT stop drinking when I'm dead.... MIGHT!!
Until then, if you don't like my fire
Don't come around
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
This guy reminds me of a (now former) friend. She has the potential to be very violent, abusive, and obnoxious. She appears incapable of maintaining a healthy relationship, has a very difficult time coping with people significantly different than her ideologically, and cannot handle disagreements well. And she's never had a drink or used any recreational drug in her life. She had the attitude that anyone who drank or used any kind of recreational drug, no matter how minimally, had a problem; and if they denied that they did, that was simply proof that they had an even bigger problem. Being raised by violent alcoholics, I can understand it to some extent; but ultimately her strident self-righteousness manifested in fairly abusive ways. She verbally attacked me rather visciously several times, one of which was over a meaningless triviality. I put up with it for a while, but when I disagreed with her, politely i might add, on the efficacy of "alternative" medicine (she's a huge supporter of "naturopathy"), and she stated somewhat graphically how much she would like to see me dead because of that and my "obvious drug problem" (never mind that I haven't used anything of any sort for nearly a year) I had to cut off our friendship.
I've grown up in a family with a serious history of drug abuse on both sides. I'm capable of recognizing and undestanding the difference between responsible use and abuse. She was not, and was not interested in leaning the difference.
The problem isn't the drugs or alcohol. The problem is extremes of behaviour that are exacerbated by drugs use. I agree that there are some people who simply should not use any sort of drug, including alcohol. They are simply not able to do so responsibly. They're usually also not able to responsibly manage their money (she certainly wasn't), relationships, or any other part of their life.
Their big problem is that they lack both self control and a strong sense of personal responsibility. They act primarily on impulse, and do not have the tools to regulate their behaviour; and often no interest in developing those tools. Because they cannot control themselves, they are unable to cope with the temptation provided by others around them. They don't want to believe anyone else has a level of self-control that they don't, because it points up their own personal failing. They put the blame for their problem on the substance itself, instead of their own lack of control, because it absolves them of responsibility for their own lives and actions. They would rather see themselves as innocent victims of a magical evil force than admit that their problems originate within themselves.
Part of what I don't like about 12-step programs is that, although they purport to teach personal responsibility, they do so only at a very shallow, superficial level. Ultimately, they perpetuate the victimhood mentality, fail to deal with the core problem that causes the alcoholism, drug abuse, or behaviour addiction, and as others have noted, simply exchange one addiction for another, one bad behaviour for another. Self-abuse becomes self-righteousness. It's telling that there are 12-step programs for addiction to 12-step programs.
But there are plenty of us, I'd say the majority, who do not have such extremist natures, and aren't going to go out and destroy everything around us just by having a couple drinks at the club on a weekend.
This guy doesn't strike me as quite that way, though he's got more than a little of the self-righteous streak to him. But he's clearly the type who lacks self control and doesn't want to take responsibility for that fact.
One of my favorites, when I'm in the mood for something sweet, is a drink a friend and I call a "Chocolate Rocket". Two parts Godiva dark chcolate liquer, one part Sylk (or Bailey's or Brendan's, but I prefer Sylk) cream liquer. Hit with one part of Vodka to punch it up a bit, or one part of Kalhua or Tia Maria for a Coffee Rocket.
One of my favorite drinks is also one of the most expensive. Absinthe. Not that evil pseudo-absinthe Czech or Spanish crap, but real French and Swiss absinthe. There's simply nothing else like it.
I've grown up in a family with a serious history of drug abuse on both sides. I'm capable of recognizing and undestanding the difference between responsible use and abuse. She was not, and was not interested in leaning the difference.
The problem isn't the drugs or alcohol. The problem is extremes of behaviour that are exacerbated by drugs use. I agree that there are some people who simply should not use any sort of drug, including alcohol. They are simply not able to do so responsibly. They're usually also not able to responsibly manage their money (she certainly wasn't), relationships, or any other part of their life.
Their big problem is that they lack both self control and a strong sense of personal responsibility. They act primarily on impulse, and do not have the tools to regulate their behaviour; and often no interest in developing those tools. Because they cannot control themselves, they are unable to cope with the temptation provided by others around them. They don't want to believe anyone else has a level of self-control that they don't, because it points up their own personal failing. They put the blame for their problem on the substance itself, instead of their own lack of control, because it absolves them of responsibility for their own lives and actions. They would rather see themselves as innocent victims of a magical evil force than admit that their problems originate within themselves.
Part of what I don't like about 12-step programs is that, although they purport to teach personal responsibility, they do so only at a very shallow, superficial level. Ultimately, they perpetuate the victimhood mentality, fail to deal with the core problem that causes the alcoholism, drug abuse, or behaviour addiction, and as others have noted, simply exchange one addiction for another, one bad behaviour for another. Self-abuse becomes self-righteousness. It's telling that there are 12-step programs for addiction to 12-step programs.
But there are plenty of us, I'd say the majority, who do not have such extremist natures, and aren't going to go out and destroy everything around us just by having a couple drinks at the club on a weekend.
This guy doesn't strike me as quite that way, though he's got more than a little of the self-righteous streak to him. But he's clearly the type who lacks self control and doesn't want to take responsibility for that fact.
Actually, the alcohol itself does. In moderate doses, it promotes the formation of HDL cholesterol over LDL cholesterol; maintaning a healthy balance and reducing the buildup of fatty deposits in arteries. Of course, heavy consumption completely undoes any benefits.
Only if it's a good Islay or similar; or one of a very few Highland malts.
One of my favorites, when I'm in the mood for something sweet, is a drink a friend and I call a "Chocolate Rocket". Two parts Godiva dark chcolate liquer, one part Sylk (or Bailey's or Brendan's, but I prefer Sylk) cream liquer. Hit with one part of Vodka to punch it up a bit, or one part of Kalhua or Tia Maria for a Coffee Rocket.
One of my favorite drinks is also one of the most expensive. Absinthe. Not that evil pseudo-absinthe Czech or Spanish crap, but real French and Swiss absinthe. There's simply nothing else like it.
If I may interject, this is a poor analogy. While addiction in and of itself may be psychologically harmful, alcohol is physically harmful.
What does this have to do with the price of bread? People have been doing all sort of things for ages that are illogical and/or harmful, based on what we know today.
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 38,527
I was tweaking your nose a bit, of course.Ew
ETA:
The suggestion that the collective "you" must have problems if choosing to drink (alcohol) was the point of the parody. I understand personal taste, and that many people do not like Scotch. My father likes a glass of wine now and again, but he abhors beer.
Teatotalling is OK. More beer left for me.
DR
Darth Rotor
Salted Sith Cynic
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2006
- Messages
- 38,527
I hope you realize that an internet addiction = porn addiction NSFW!!.
WARNING: Crass humor in the video, and a couple of NSFW cartoon images near the end. (I figured from your avatar that you might be familiar with the MMORPG the video came from. My son alerted me to this little funny. )
DR
nosho, I would have guessed that you were the co-dependent of an alcoholic, but you say no one in your immediate family is alcoholic. But, damn, you sound a lot like a co-dependent, I must say.
I am an alcoholic. I have been sober for more than 11.5 years. And you know what? Ain't nobody responsible for my drinking except me. I was an alky from the very first sip, nosho. I didn't need any role models to get me hooked or to tell me it was okay to drink. In fact, I was spoken to often about my problem. And every time someone told me that I really ought to give it up, it was "Buh-bye, I don't want to know you any more".
It is convenient for an alky to blame everyone else but himself for his problem. Society, bad parents, blue fairies on the moon, James Bond and his goddam martinis. I tried a few of those on, and it only succeeded in me drinking some more, because now I had a REASON to drink!
"You'd drink, too, if..."
Buncha bull.
Let me tell you how an alcoholic thinks, okay?
You talked about how you just drinking one or two sets an example that drinking is okay. Well, let me straighten you out on that.
You know what an alky thinks when he sees a guy like you drink one drink and walk away? He thinks, "What the ever-loving F*** is the point of drinking if you aren't going to get WASTED?!?!"
I still think that way. I don't get "normal" people. One drink. Geezus, give me a break! Freaking earthlings, man. One drink. Get thee behind me!
Sure, on an intellectual level, I can get it. Like cake. I might eat a piece of cake, and if it's really good, maybe I'll have a second slice. Okay. I'm not going to eat the whole freaking bakery, though, right?
So I sorta get it.
But inside where it really counts, I don't get it. I really don't. When I drink, I drink to get wasted. There is no other point to it for me.
Okay. Done.
I am an alcoholic. I have been sober for more than 11.5 years. And you know what? Ain't nobody responsible for my drinking except me. I was an alky from the very first sip, nosho. I didn't need any role models to get me hooked or to tell me it was okay to drink. In fact, I was spoken to often about my problem. And every time someone told me that I really ought to give it up, it was "Buh-bye, I don't want to know you any more".
It is convenient for an alky to blame everyone else but himself for his problem. Society, bad parents, blue fairies on the moon, James Bond and his goddam martinis. I tried a few of those on, and it only succeeded in me drinking some more, because now I had a REASON to drink!
"You'd drink, too, if..."
Buncha bull.
Let me tell you how an alcoholic thinks, okay?
You talked about how you just drinking one or two sets an example that drinking is okay. Well, let me straighten you out on that.
You know what an alky thinks when he sees a guy like you drink one drink and walk away? He thinks, "What the ever-loving F*** is the point of drinking if you aren't going to get WASTED?!?!"
I still think that way. I don't get "normal" people. One drink. Geezus, give me a break! Freaking earthlings, man. One drink. Get thee behind me!
Sure, on an intellectual level, I can get it. Like cake. I might eat a piece of cake, and if it's really good, maybe I'll have a second slice. Okay. I'm not going to eat the whole freaking bakery, though, right?
So I sorta get it.
But inside where it really counts, I don't get it. I really don't. When I drink, I drink to get wasted. There is no other point to it for me.
Okay. Done.
rserocki
Scholar
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2004
- Messages
- 52
I don't think I have anything useful to add here, but I'll post anyway. I started drinking a few years ago. In order to be moderate about it, when I get buy alcohol along with my groceries, I don't buy any more than once every two weeks, and this would typically be a six-pack of beer or a bottle of wine. When I drank, I'd have two servings a day. I sometimes skipped buying alcohol on the visits when I'd allowed myself to, and the last time I had anything alcoholic was when I had dinner at my sister's place in the second half of September. I haven't had any since that time.
Trivia: Certain kinds of beer have given me sneezing fits. Maybe it's the hops?
Trivia: Certain kinds of beer have given me sneezing fits. Maybe it's the hops?
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