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Can you stop drinking?

I'm not really qualified to diagnosis alcoholism............there are various things (referred to as signposts) that might indicate an indivual may be drifting into alcoholism.
But is there a real diagnosis? Does it mean anything more than you have problems with alcohol? That was argued above that you do not have to have any of the social ramifications to be an alcoholic, so that is not a valid criteria for everyone. What is?
 
Has anyone had luck going the month? I just keep getting thristy. I fall off the wagon, drink some water, then try the whole month over again.
 
OK, maybe you're strong enough and responsible enough to stop at just one drink.

It's pretty common for me that when I want a beer, I only have one beer and don't even finish that. You know, once in a while when you just think a beer would taste good with your sandwich. That’s if I’m drinking for the flavor of the drink.

If I’m drinking for the effect that’s a different matter entirely. If the purpose is to get tipsy, then certainly there is no point at stopping at one as that isn’t enough to do it.
 
Well, you could look that up and make sure you're getting the right info, but I will tell you what I was told for years in Al-Anon, the support group for families of alcoholics:

"If your drinking is causing problems in your life, then you have a drinking problem. If you cannot choose to abstain from alcohol in spite of the problems it causes, then you are an alcoholic."

The reason I ask is because Ralph said in one of his posts

Alcoholism is progressive--there are early-mid- and late stages. Most people are fairly functional through the early stages. The nasty stuff tends to occur in the later stages although many alcoholics get well into old age keeping their jobs, not getting arrested, and never beating up the kids.

It sounds like if you drink at all yet show no signs of being an alcoholic, well, you still might really be one, you just haven't matured deep into alcoholism. That doesn't sound right.
 
"P.S. I love the way the shop keepers look at me when I buy beer at 8 a.m. its very delightful"

I love when I just buy beer and a big bag of chips. It's as though my purchase is soundly conveying to the shopkepper - "yes, I'm not going out tonight, but I will be drinking and eating chips." I enjoy revealing a little about my life to such a complete stranger.
 
It sounds like if you drink at all yet show no signs of being an alcoholic, well, you still might really be one, you just haven't matured deep into alcoholism. That doesn't sound right.

It's not much easier for those who are in it, either, as I recall. It took us a few years (really bad years) for my ex to admit what he says he knew all along. He'd been drinking since 15, and became almost immediately addicted. Both parents were alcoholics, too, and it killed his dad. When he died, they found cases and cases of some local Boston beer or ale stacked in his house. Can't remember what it was called, but it was a brand we didn't see out west, at the time.

But the difficulty is why Al-Anon and AA use the "definition" they do. There is no real hard-and-fast; everyone is different. So the basic premise is if it is causing problems, then it's a drinking problem.

I haven't cared about the topic for 15 years, since I left him, but I recall that during my tenure in hell, there was talk that some folks might actually have a sort of allergy to the grains in alcohol. The ex was tested for grasses and pollens and was found to be highly allergic to several types.

I used to wonder how true that was, and how meaningful or significant.

In Al-Anon and AA, they used to tell us: "You can be a weekend-alcoholic. You can be an alcoholic on beer alone. You can drink one weekend a month, but if it seems to change your personality, or have other obvious effects, you probably have a problem. Alcoholisim comes in many forms and types, but the single common thread is that drinking makes your life worse."

They also used to stress the idea that an alcoholic cannot stop at just one drink, so that could be another sign.

I feel it's one of those complicated issues where you can't logically or correctly say it's all physical, or all mental, or all social, or all moral. That all these things are part of it is what makes it so confusing.
 
Right now, I try desperately to stop. In less than a week, I predict that I will have changed my mind and started drinking again. It's easy to make the choice to stop, it's very hard not to change your mind after a while. I don't know why.
 
I used to drink heavily, back in the 1980s. I got tired of it and pretty much stopped. Now I buy a twelve-pack two or three times a year... and usually forget it's there.
 
I have let this thread simmer down for several months. During that time, I've become even more convinced of my original position.

Some of the posts in this thread really surprise me, because they express so much pain, so much negativity, so much animosity. I believe one has to generate a huge amount of negativity in oneself before one seeks to lash out at another. And many of the posts in this thread clearly have nothing to do with a courteous and respectful exchange of thoughts and opinions.

Alcohol use is so deeply imbedded into our socialization as human beings, some of us don't seem to be able to separate it from our sense of self. Criticism of alcohol use becomes tantamount to criticism of oneself. For those of you who really became angry or disgusted with what I had to say, I fear there is no basis for rational dialogue at all unless you are strong enough to take a step back and try to look at yourself objectively. Really look, honestly and deeply. Understand what it is within yourself that is causing you this pain you are trying to express.

From my vantage point, society looks as if it has been brainwashed. The slogan "drink responsibly" is a hugely successful marketing ploy of the American Beverage Institute. Look at the group's website, www.abionline.org. The entire purpose of this type of slogan is to send the affirmative message: "DRINK."

People seem to buy that marketing message because they want to. Because alcohol is such a huge part of our society. We're hit with the message constantly to drink responsibly, drink responsibly, until we don't even question it any more. And the underlying message is: Drink. We no longer question it. We're like robots.

Alcohol kills brain cells. Alcohol deadens the ability to feel sensations in the body. Alcohol has an effect that is unlike the effect of any of the other activities people here have posted about in this thread, such as dancing, or using the Internet. You're comparing apples with oranges if you liken alcohol use to these other activities.

Take another look at the studies I referred to in the OP. For that matter, do some research on the Internet on fetal alcohol syndrome. It's alarming.

Fetal alcohol syndrome is a powerful argument in favor of recognizing that our behavior can and does have an effect on others. We have to take responsibility.

Browse through the newspaper and see how often alcohol is a factor in the crimes you read about, from murder to fatal accidents. It's appalling.

This has nothing to do with trying to live a life without risks. Rather, it has everything to do with living a life that's healthy and affirmative for oneself and others. This is real freedom, the freedom to be able to make healthy choices that support and enhance well-being.

I very sincerely wish each of you the strength to have this kind of freedom.

Peace.
 
I have let this thread simmer down for several months. During that time, I've become even more convinced of my original position.

Having just read through your OP, I still call it BS.

Some of the posts in this thread really surprise me, because they express so much pain, so much negativity, so much animosity. I believe one has to generate a huge amount of negativity in oneself before one seeks to lash out at another. And many of the posts in this thread clearly have nothing to do with a courteous and respectful exchange of thoughts and opinions.

Have you been reading the same thread as me?

Alcohol use is so deeply imbedded into our socialization as human beings, some of us don't seem to be able to separate it from our sense of self.

Yes and no. Some people have a problem with alcohol. That doesn't make it the scourge of the world as others have no problem distinguishing between drinking and a sense of self. I cannot help but think that the real problem is within in YOU.

Criticism of alcohol use becomes tantamount to criticism of oneself. For those of you who really became angry or disgusted with what I had to say, I fear there is no basis for rational dialogue at all unless you are strong enough to take a step back and try to look at yourself objectively. Really look, honestly and deeply. Understand what it is within yourself that is causing you this pain you are trying to express.

Or maybe it's exasperation at someone whom come across as "I'm Hollier than Thou".

From my vantage point, society looks as if it has been brainwashed. The slogan "drink responsibly" is a hugely successful marketing ploy of the American Beverage Institute. Look at the group's website, www.abionline.org. The entire purpose of this type of slogan is to send the affirmative message: "DRINK."

And what about those of us whom are not American? I drink responsible.

People seem to buy that marketing message because they want to. Because alcohol is such a huge part of our society. We're hit with the message constantly to drink responsibly, drink responsibly, until we don't even question it any more. And the underlying message is: Drink. We no longer question it. We're like robots.

Disagrees. But then again, according to you, I'm brainwashed. Riddle me this: How come I didn't manage to get my first real buzz untill I was 18? According to you I should have been drinking pretty much since birth and my parents should have encouraged me all the way.

Alcohol kills brain cells. Alcohol deadens the ability to feel sensations in the body. Alcohol has an effect that is unlike the effect of any of the other activities people here have posted about in this thread, such as dancing, or using the Internet. You're comparing apples with oranges if you liken alcohol use to these other activities.

And yet there is something called "Internet Addiction". And the other things have effects as well.

Take another look at the studies I referred to in the OP. For that matter, do some research on the Internet on fetal alcohol syndrome. It's alarming.

Yes, fetal alcohol syndrome is alarming. But you are using a fallacy as evidence. And that's a no-no.

Fetal alcohol syndrome is a powerful argument in favor of recognizing that our behavior can and does have an effect on others. We have to take responsibility.

But you still haven't provided evidence for your assertions that alcohol consumption cannot be done responsible or that some big conspiracy is out to make addicts of us all.

Browse through the newspaper and see how often alcohol is a factor in the crimes you read about, from murder to fatal accidents. It's appalling.

Fallacy. Not evidence.

This has nothing to do with trying to live a life without risks. Rather, it has everything to do with living a life that's healthy and affirmative for oneself and others. This is real freedom, the freedom to be able to make healthy choices that support and enhance well-being.

Don't you mean freedom to live a life YOU see as being fit? I like my occasional glass of wine with my fish. I like my beer from time to time. That is part of what makes my life worth living. And it's my life, not yours.

I very sincerely wish each of you the strength to have this kind of freedom.

Peace.

I already have.
 
On the other hand, if I choose not to drink, I create in my own small way the momentum of social change. If more people did the same thing, we could slowly change the culture of drinking in our society that clearly and obviously results in tremendous harm.
I'm sure you'd love to think that, but it's wishful thinking. Consider Saudi Arabia: a place par excellence where alcohol consumption is frowned upon culturally and legally, being punishable by flogging ("about forty lashes") for a first offense, ranging up to the death penalty for repeat offenders. Yet strangely, one of the most dangerous stretches of road in the world is the causeway which connects Saudi Arabia with Bahrain. See, what happens is that Saudis drive to Bahrain, where alcohol is heavily regulated but not banned outright, get thoroughly tanked in the bar at the airport, and then drive back to Saudi. They aren't breaking the law in Saudi, because the Kingdom has no law against driving while under the influence; for how could you drink and drive in a country where you supposedly can't drink in the first place? The key word there, incidentally, is "supposedly." Strangely, Saudi supermarkets stock bulk containers of grape juice right alongside the industrial-sized bags of sugar and yeast. It's almost as if they expected their customers to have wine-making equipment, or even a still, set up in their spare bathrooms. But clearly that's impossible, right? Surely, in a place which exhibits such cultural disapproval of drinking as Saudi Arabia, nobody would even think of manufacturing their own booze.

Then there's Iran. With the right connections, getting hold of booze is no problem, nor is ensuring the cops won't come and bust up your party on Thursday night, either, especially if you live in north Tehran. Most Iranians, however, don't have these connections, so drinking is a little harder to do in Iran. Since the penalties for being caught with a beer are as harsh as for being caught with a bottle of 40% ABV hard liquor, though, the latter is more prevalent than the former, since it's easier to conceal the amount of alcohol required to get a buzz going when it's in more concentrated form. On the other hand, heroin is cheap and plentiful, what with Afghanistan being right next door and Iran being the first stop on the trafficking route to Europe, and the number of heroin addicts in Iran is staggering, despite heroin being considered as bad as, if not not worse than, alcohol.

Now, note that Iran doesn't have a substance abuse problem because it has "a culture of substance abuse"; it has a substance abuse problem because it's Iran. And, in my experience, substance abusers don't have problem because they abuse substances; they abuse substances because they have a problem (even if the substance abuse may lead to additional problems). I used to work at ICTY, and my first job there was analyzing witness statements to determine who (according to that particular document) did what, where and to whom, and entering that information into a relational database. The ten months in which I did that were the period in which I drank most heavily in my life. Significantly, I drank heavily Mondays through Fridays, after work, but significantly less (if at all) on Saturdays and Sundays. If, during that period, you'd told me, while I was cracking open my sixth beer of the evening, that I wasn't "doing myself any favors by drinking," my response would have been:
"Listen, I just spent eight hours today alone reading accounts of beatings, torture, rapes, murders, and how people lost everything and everyone they ever cared about. Alcohol will help me sleep tonight. Alcohol-induced sleep may not be as good as the regular thing, but it beats no sleep."
Significantly, when I moved to another job, my drinking dropped dramatically. Again, I didn't have problem because I drank; I drank because I had a problem. If it hadn't been drinking, I'd have compulsively engaged in some other activity to distract me.

That's the flaw in Twelve-Step programs: they operate on the basis that the "addiction" to whatever it is that particular program is supposed to be treating is the problem, and that if the subject can kick the "addiction," that'll be the end of it. The fact is that, even in "successful" cases, all that happens is that the subject switches "addictions." An AA attendee who successfully weans himself off booze will, if his "root" problem isn't identified and dealt with, instead turn to cigarettes, coffee, even AA meetings themselves as a means of distracting his attention from what's really bothering him.
 
If you drink regularly in moderation, ask yourself, can you stop drinking for a month?

Yes.

If so, then do it, as an experiment.

Done it already, several times. Not as an experiment, but simply as a "too lazy to buy booze."

If you can stop for a month, why not do yourself and everyone else a favor and stop for another month?

Because it wouldn't actually be a favor to anyone. Not to myself, not to anyone else, not even to the nice person at the local off-license.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no negative results -- to myself to anyone else -- from my drinking at all. (Netdoctor seems to agree with me.) And, if the medicos are correct, there are substantial benefits to myself. It's also simply fun.

If you have a rational basis for suggesting that my drinking harms people, let me know. But, as you put it, "I fear there is no basis for rational dialogue at all unless you are strong enough to take a step back and try to look at yourself objectively." And I similarly fear that you have no objective basis to complain about social drinking.....
 
I drink on occasion. I don't do it so much these days on account of all the drugs, but I still like it. I'm not really concerned if my drinking an alcoholic beverage influences someone else. I never asked to be a role model, and I don't drink in public schools or on playgrounds.
 
Yes.

Done it already, several times. Not as an experiment, but simply as a "too lazy to buy booze."

Ditto. In a week, I won't have had a drop in a month, simply because it's such a pain to buy alcohol in Ontario (and I don't have a car).

/will be enjoying some cidre de glace soon after I return to civilization...
 
Since I am 9 weeks into a quit of an addiction (tobacco), I have to say I know where this guy is coming from. Unfortunately, just like it is in my case, an addict assumes that the substance he/she was addicted to is evil.

I chewed for 10 years. I gave up and quit. I am trying to convince anybody else I see that is chewing to do the same. Yet, I know there are a few people that can chew whenever they want. They aren't addicted. I can't enjoy that random hit.

I do agree with the premise that if you can't quit drinking for a month, than you may have a problem.
 

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