Can Hillary be elected?

[Upchurch]

Hillary was at one time politically tone deaf. She held a significant contempt for those who were of a different ideology though to be fair the opposition held her in contempt. She didn't always respond well to snipping from the opposition. She headed a commission to enact national health care. She was brusque and refused to listen to any outsiders and purposely excluded a number of important segments of the medical field. Whenever caught in a scandal she always blamed the opposition and never ever accepted responsibility for her woes. Because she was an attorney she always took the position to withdraw and not answer questions which is good for keeping one out of jail but not good for keeping a good relationship with the public. Again many of the problems were the result of unfair accusations.

{snip}

Exchange "George" for "Hillary" and "war in Iraq" for "national health care" and I think this could equally describe much of the problem that the left has for Bush.

(okay, ignoring that Bush was not an attorney, etc.)

 

[Darat]

So she was involved in some reform of the Health system that went pear shape (I vaguely remember that from the time) and that is way she is today a controversial figure?

 

[Number Six]

I don't think Hilary can win in 2008. For whatever reason too many people strongly dislike her.

I think the GOP is just stepping into good luck after good luck. So many things have gone right for them and then when something finally goes wrong for them what is it?...the misreading of the Terri Schiavo case...and it happen right after elections thus giving them time to recover and also the one Republican it hurts the most (Bill Frist) happens to be the social conservative candidate for 2008. So just when the Repubicans start going too far right for the national mood something happens to push them back to the center and it happens at just the right time.

Can anyone really imagine Hilary beating John McCain or Rudy Guiliani in a _national_ election? Before Rudy came down with prostate cancer the New York senate race was looking to be a big, close showdown between Rudy and Hilary and that is New York, which is a strongly Democratic state.

Like someone said, what states did Kerry lose that Hilary could win? Unless the Republicans do something stupid like nominate Newt Gingrich then IMO Hilary doesn't have a chance.

 

[Jocko]

So she was involved in some reform of the Health system that went pear shape (I vaguely remember that from the time) and that is way she is today a controversial figure?

It wasn't so much the reform efforts as the star chamber-like quality of the panel. Lots of people prefer that their First Ladies keep one thing in mind: No one elected them to anything, in spite of cute little fusion names like "Billary." Perceived power grabs tend to rub Americans the wrong way... just ask Al Haig.

 

[RandFan]

Exchange "George" for "Hillary" and "war in Iraq" for "national health care" and I think this could equally describe much of the problem that the left has for Bush.

(okay, ignoring that Bush was not an attorney, etc.)

No argument.

 

[TragicMonkey]

How much of the anti-Hillary sentiment is just plain old sexism?

 

[Upchurch]

It wasn't so much the reform efforts as the star chamber-like quality of the panel. Lots of people prefer that their First Ladies keep one thing in mind: No one elected them to anything, in spite of cute little fusion names like "Billary." Perceived power grabs tend to rub Americans the wrong way... just ask Al Haig.

You pretty much had to have your head in the sand during both elections to not recognize that Bill and Hillary were more of a package deal than anything. In fact, I almost consider it a technicality that Hillary is even eligable to run (again). If she were to ever to actually become President, I think the only health reasons would keep Bill from being just as active as he was the last time he was in the White House.

And since I never actually answered the question: At this point, I think she's got a snowball's chance to win the Presidency in '08. Maybe something will happen to change that in the next three years.

 

[hgc]

...

Can anyone really imagine Hilary beating John McCain or Rudy Guiliani in a _national_ election?
...

I don't see how it matters. The Republican Party will nominate neither of these men as long as the fundies run the show.

 

[TragicMonkey]

If she were to ever to actually become President, I think the only health reasons would keep Bill from being just as active as he was the last time he was in the White House.

That, and Hillary not liking him very much. I would think it would be a really awkward relationship at that point. "Hey, Bill, look, it's my desk now! Guess what I won't be doing at it?"

 

[crimresearch]

So she was involved in some reform of the Health system that went pear shape (I vaguely remember that from the time) and that is way she is today a controversial figure?

That and the fact that men who confront her suddenly come down with prostrate cancer or other messy ways to go.

Frank Zappa, Rudy G., etc.

 

[BPSCG]

The Whitewater "scandal" was a big bust, with millions expended to find no evidence of wrongdoing whatever.

So all these friends of Hill and Bill were convicted on trumped-up charges?

 

[Jocko]

You pretty much had to have your head in the sand during both elections to not recognize that Bill and Hillary were more of a package deal than anything. In fact, I almost consider it a technicality that Hillary is even eligable to run (again). If she were to ever to actually become President, I think the only health reasons would keep Bill from being just as active as he was the last time he was in the White House.

Granted, but disclosure alone doesn't change the fact that Hillary was not elected to any position and therefore should not be molding policy. Some might call it sexism, but I classify her conduct during Bill's terms as somewhere between presumptuous and megaloamanic. Even Democrats were uncomfortable with it, which I presume is a big reason she kept a low profile during reelection time.

And since I never actually answered the question: At this point, I think she's got a snowball's chance to win the Presidency in '08. Maybe something will happen to change that in the next three years.

Anything is possible, but if Hillary runs and loses (a likely scenario, IMHO), it won't be due to sexism. The first woman in the white house (and the first black, for that matter) will be a conservative. The electorate is too fragmented right now for anyone to win on one core consituency, especially when they - like Hillary - have so many deficits in other areas to overcome. It will need to be a populist in the McCain vein, and Hillary just ain't a populist... no matter how many press releases she issues.

 

[Rob Lister]

That, and Hillary not liking him very much. I would think it would be a really awkward relationship at that point. "Hey, Bill, look, it's my desk now! Guess what I won't be doing at it?"

And Bill would reply, "Hey Hillary, look at my desk now and try to guess which intern is under it."

Bill Clinton: First Man. The irony of it is almost as sweet as Hillary: First Lady. Hell, I may vote for her just for the humor aspect alone.

 

[Jocko]

Bill Clinton: First Man. The irony of it is almost as sweet as Hillary: First Lady. Hell, I may vote for her just for the humor aspect alone.

She may have been Bill's First Lady, but she sure as hell wasn't his last.

 

[coalesce]

How much of the anti-Hillary sentiment is just plain old sexism?

A whole lot, more than most are willing to admit. But those are probably the same people who complain abouut a female NASCAR driver.

If it looked like she were going to run, I think the Republicans would trot out Rudy Giuliani so fast that the anti-Hillary forces would have no choice but to put aside the fact that they would be electing an (*gasp*) Italian-American as president. I think he'd wipe the floors with her in New York. Rick Lazio lost the Senate race to her only because outside of his immediate family, no one knew who Lazio was. Giuliani doesn't have that handicap.

Still, it's sad that we cannot look past what a person is (race, gender, etc.) and look to what they've done instead.

Michael

 

[Mark]

I like Hillary. I will never understand the hatred she generates; I can only assume it is because the Right are afraid of her.

The only problem is, if she were to win, no doubt the Right's slime machinery will go to work full time again (using tax payer money, I might add).

 

[Grammatron]

I like Hillary. I will never understand the hatred she generates; I can only assume it is because the Right are afraid of her.

The only problem is, if she were to win, no doubt the Right's slime machinery will go to work full time again (using tax payer money, I might add).

Well, '"This is a vast right win conspiracy" - Hillary' after all.

 

[Mark]

Well, '"This is a vast right win conspiracy" - Hillary' after all.

The 44 million spent by Republicans chasing after something---anything---against The Clintons is a matter of public record. As is the fact that they found absolutely nothing.

The bj occured after the "investigation" was already going on (and was the dumbest move by any sitting president since Nixon, IMO). It also said little or nothing about Hillary, other than her loyalty.

 

[Grammatron]

The 44 million spent by Republicans chasing after something---anything---against The Clintons is a matter of public record. As is the fact that they found absolutely nothing.

The bj occured after the "investigation" was already going on (and was the dumbest move by any sitting president since Nixon, IMO). It also said little or nothing about Hillary, other than her loyalty.

The quote was about the bj allegations and no apology, explanation or retraction was ever issued for that very irresponsible comment.

At any rate, that's why I am not fond of her. I won't lose any sleep if she ever gets elected, though I highly doubt it.

 

[Cleon]

The quote was about the bj allegations and no apology, explanation or retraction was ever issued for that very irresponsible comment.

Well, aside from the bizarre-sounding wordage, she was essentially correct. There was a large ("vast"), concerted, organized effort--a "conspiracy" if you will--to go after the Clintons using every legal means possible. "Monicagate" was merely one of them...There was also the whitewater BS, Paula Jones, Juanita Broderick, the whole nine yards. This effort came from the right wing, spearheaded largely by a group called Judicial Watch.

"Vast right-wing conspiracy" might sound comical, but it certainly isn't inaccurate.