Camera work of Apollo 17

I'm annoyed that when I corrected a typo earlier I didn't spot that I had written

Put in time and date specific images of the moon

I meant 'of the Earth'.

That said, they also took photographs of the lunar surface that were consistent not only with the date and time of the mission but with how the lighting changed over the course of the missions. You'll need to consider that as well, wogoga, when drawing up your model of how it was done.

And to emphasise a point I made above, right now on a social media group I follow people are describing the work their family members did as part of the Apollo programme.

Go ask them about the disinformation agents around their dinner table.
 
In this and other threads wogoga has been presented with completely reasonable, well-documented, scientifically accurate and fully logical explanations for the issues he has brought up. His response unfortunately has been to ignore these rebuttals, selectively mis-interpret them, or to move on to ever more incorrect explanations or imaginary conspiracy explanations ("Well- we don't know for certain there weren't magical unicorns in the NSA basement who could have created artificially low gravity on a movie set on Earth).

I believe that wogoga understands the errors in his posts but that his posts will never concede these errors. There are a number of possible explanations for this, but forum rules justifiably do not permit me to publicly speculate here.

In the meantime I am learning a lot about physics and video from the other posters here. Perhaps I should thank wogoga for this, even though it has proven very embarrassing for the viewpoints he has claimed to support.
 
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Let us ignore technical details and questions...

Sooner or later all the hoax claimants abandon actual evidence. This usually happens because the claimant realizes that skimming a few websites and YouTube videos does not prepare him to argue against people who have actually done the historical research or who have professional qualifications in the relevant sciences. You got caught not having properly researched the Apollo photographic record, so now you're abandoning a discussion of the actual photography to focus on wild accusations of people being "disinformation agents." Your fantasy world does not correspond to reality.

By the way, Jarrah White has a logically quite consistent site, a "must read" for everybody interested in the topic

If you think Jarrah White is an expert or an authority on this subject, you're pretty funny. Jarrah won't debate his claims in any forum he doesn't control. He tried it once, at IMDb. He got his head handed to him and was so embarrassed he went back and deleted all his posts. Further, he was given the opportunity to defend his claims before a panel of experts from the university near his home. It was all arranged by others. He didn't have to do anything except show up. He refused even to acknowledge that the offer hand been made. These occurrences should tell you which side of the debate is more likely to know it's lying.

So far your argument has consisted of nothing but long-debunked nonsense you've cribbed from other people. Why do you deserve serious attention?
 
What I find very distressing is how often in conspiracy theories the same question is asked, answered, and then asked again and again. There appears to be no killing a stupid question- it just lives on and on because the goal of conspiracy theory is the conspiracy, not the facts.
Yup.

CTer: so how come camera moves by itself? Just asking questions :) .
Everyone: here's why.
CTer: [insults and nonsense for 10 pages]

:dust settles:

CTer in new thread: so how come camera moves by itself? Just asking questions, mind :) .
 
By the way, Jarrah White has a logically quite consistent site, a "must read" for everybody interested in the topic:


Firstly, logical consistency is not the same as true.
Secondly, it is neither anyway.
Thirdly, you are invoking the work of a man who didn't know what a 'polar orbit' was as an expert on spaceflight.
 
Firstly, logical consistency is not the same as true.
Secondly, it is neither anyway.
Thirdly, you are invoking the work of a man who didn't know what a 'polar orbit' was as an expert on spaceflight.

I'd forgotten that!!!

A polar orbit that spins above one of the poles

A real wtf moment indeed...
 
Video: "Irrefutable Proof for Moon Landing - Lunar Gravity"

I would say that this video Irrefutable Proof for Moon Landing contains evidence of the opposite.

Here the description of the video:

Lunar gravity as determined from official NASA Apollo footage provides irrefutable proof for being filmed on the moon. In addition to the Apollo 14 SEQ Bay Pendulum the Apollo 16 Flying Bag is analyzed to provide g = 1.54 and 1.57 m/s2 in agreement with lunar gravity (g = 1.62 m/s2) and distinct from earth gravity (g = 9.81 m/s2). Therefore, both, pendulum and free fall motion confirm lunar gravity within a 5% error margin. Moon landing conspiracy theorists have accused NASA to simulate lunar gravity by using wires and decreasing playback speed, but failed to recognize that there is only ONE physically correct playback speed for such an operation: 41% = √(1/6) – as seen by using the equation P = 2π ∙ √(L / g) for the pendulum or t = √(2y / g) for free fall.

Consequently, it should be possible to restore the alleged original 1 g conditions by increasing the playback speed to 246% = √6. Under these conditions objects move as if accelerated by earth gravity (g = 9.81 m/s2) but movements of the astronauts become incredibly fast, showing the impossibility to simulate lunar gravity by slowing down footage recorded on earth.

All NASA footage obtained from public domain, AS14 SEQ Bay Pendulum cropped, AS16 Flying Bag animation with timer reproduced at 80% playback speed. All other footage reproduced at 100% (for lunar gravity) or 246% (for earth gravity) playback speed.

It is true that by reducing playback speed to 1/√6 ≈ 41% = 9n41 we can transform the film of a terrestrial pendulum into a lunar pendulum. The argument brought forward against such a playback speed reduction: "movements of astronauts become incredibly fast". The quality of the film is so incredibly bad that at best we can say that the movements of the astronauts are unnaturally fast. Yet it is far from impossible to perform or fake such unnatural movements on Earth.

Even more revealing is the flying bag, reaching a height of only 4.1 m and a distance of probably less than 10 meter. Such a throw is certainly easy to perform on Earth, at least if the "bag" has (somewhere) enough weight. For comparison: Hammer throw world record is more than 80 m; on the moon such a hammer throw would result in more than 6 ∙ 80 m = 480 m.

Due to 1/6 gravity and lack of atmospheric friction, height and distance of a throw are at least 6 times bigger on the moon than on Earth. Therefore such a bag would easily have reached a height of 25 m and a distance of 60 m, if the throw actually had happened on the moon.

Again, the film quality is very poor, and the angle of the throw with respect to the camera has been chosen in such a way that we cannot verify whether the bag follows a genuine parabola or whether its longitudinal speed is decelerated by air friction.

However, there is a smoking gun: Rotation of the bag is continuously slowing down, due to air friction. Here the corresponding sequence further slowed down: pandualism.com/upload/apollo_flying_bag.mp4

We also get the impression that the part of the bag which first touches the soil after the throw is heavier than the rest of the bag. At t = 3.7 this heavy end becomes the lowest part of the bag. Because of more weight and/or less air friction, it then seems to pull the rest of the bag downwards. Thus, the heavy end remains the lowest part, and rotation has essentially stopped when the bag touches the soil at t = 4.5 with a vertically elongated shape (probably also created by air friction).

Cheers, Wolfgang

A compilation of the posts of this thread: Slow Motion and other Techniques of Apollo Camera Work
 
So which is it? Is the picture quality so bad that you can't tell that the astronauts movements turn into absurd, unnatural scuttling when you speed the film up? Or is it so good that you think you can perceive the bag slowing in its rotation as it flies? Or is it so bad that you can't decide if the bag follows a parabola? Or is it so good that you think you see the heavy end of the bad land first?

This is desperate trolling even for you.

By the way, how long would that pendulum keep swinging like that if it weren't in a vacuum? Have you considered attempting a practical experiment?
 
So which is it? Is the picture quality so bad that you can't tell that the astronauts movements turn into absurd, unnatural scuttling when you speed the film up? Or is it so good that you think you can perceive the bag slowing in its rotation as it flies? Or is it so bad that you can't decide if the bag follows a parabola? Or is it so good that you think you see the heavy end of the bad land first?
This is desperate trolling even for you.

By the way, how long would that pendulum keep swinging like that if it weren't in a vacuum? Have you considered attempting a practical experiment?

^^THIS^^ is exactly what I was thinking as I read the latest screed.
 
All NASA footage obtained from public domain...

No, it's obtained via convenience sources with no ability to control for such things as variable or inconsistent frame rates. Since these armchair video "analysts" always use frames as their time base, you're in trouble already.

The quality of the film is so incredibly bad...

Because it's a convenience source, not actual footage obtained through NASA's photography and video distribution contractor. The analyst is responsible for assuring his data is suitable to make the analysis he purports. He doesn't get to claim his desired conclusion simply because he has chosen inconclusive data.

Such a throw is certainly easy to perform on Earth...

And difficult to perform on the Moon wearing a space suit that intentionally restricts certain movements, and the speed of all movements. We went through this before. Your ongoing ignorance of how space suits work doesn't absolve you from the responsibility to incorporate it into your findings. Once again you just ignore the physics you don't know about.

Again, the film quality is very poor...

Not NASA's fault. This is what happens when you try to do photogrammetric rectification using convenience data.

However, there is a smoking gun: Rotation of the bag is continuously slowing down, due to air friction.

Except that in order to justify the height of the throw in Earth gravity and air, you speculated:

...at least if the "bag" has (somewhere) enough weight.

Mass affects moment of inertia, which makes the bag less susceptible to having its rotation slowed by air resistance. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Notably absent from your "expert" analysis is a demonstration showing this in Earth air and gravity. You simply dictate what you think would be the case. The conspiracy theorists always rely on these dicta rather than demonstrations.

We also get the impression that the part of the bag which first touches the soil after the throw is heavier than the rest of the bag.

If the mass of the bag is not uniformly distributed, it won't rotate around its centroid as seen. Yet another physics fail on your part.
 
Would the world record hammer thrower have done as well in a big cumbersome suit?

How far can you throw a geology hammer?

As far as Jack Schmitt threw his? 1/6 as far?

Prove it.
 
A paradigm of fake pictures?

Is the photo below a paradigm of fake photos? It would have been rather nonsensical for the Lunar Module to climb above the Command Module only in order to take a picture.

600px-Apollo_11_CSM_photographed_from_Lunar_Module_%28AS11-37-5445%29.jpg


Description: "The Apollo 11 Command and Service Modules (CSM) are photographed from the Lunar Module (LM) in lunar orbit during the Apollo 11 lunar landing mission. The lunar surface below is in the north central Sea of Fertility. The coordinates of the center of the picture are 51 degrees east longitude and 1 degree north latitude. About half of the crater Taruntius G is visible in the lower left corner of the picture. Part of Taruntius H can be seen at lower right."

"At launch, the Lunar Module sat directly beneath the Command/Service Module (CSM) with legs folded, inside the Spacecraft-to-LM Adapter (SLA) attached to the S-IVB third stage of the Saturn V rocket. There it remained through earth parking orbit and the Trans Lunar Injection (TLI) rocket burn to send the craft toward the Moon. … After achieving a lunar parking orbit, the Commander and LM Pilot entered and powered up the LM, replaced the hatches and docking equipment, unfolded and locked its landing legs, and separated from the CSM, flying independently. … After visual inspection of the landing gear by the Command Module Pilot, the LM was withdrawn to a safe distance, then the descent engine was pointed forward into the direction of travel to perform the 30 second Descent Orbit Insertion burn to reduce speed and drop …" (Source)

Source resp. credit for this post: Anomalien der Mond-Fotos - Das Wunder

Cheers, Wolfgang
pandualism.com/d/apollo.html
 
It would have been rather nonsensical for the Lunar Module to climb above the Command Module only in order to take a picture.

This statement, and in particular the usage of the word "climb," seems to suggest a misunderstanding of orbital dynamics. it seems to me that it would have been trivially easy to perform a very small alteration to the orbit of the LM so that it was able to take a photo of the CM against the backdrop of the lunar surface, and as such a very cost-effective piece of PR.

"At launch, the Lunar Module sat directly beneath the Command/Service Module (CSM) with legs folded, inside the Spacecraft-to-LM Adapter (SLA) attached to the S-IVB third stage of the Saturn V rocket."

And this looks like a classic piece of misdirection, intended to suggest that (a) "below" was the position of the LM relative to the CM right up to the point where they separated, and (b) this usage of "below" is in some sense related to their relative heights in orbit above the moon. (a) is, of course, nonsense, because everybody who knows anything about Apollo knows that the CM/SM had to turn around to dock to the LM as part of separation from the S-IVB, and (b) is the fallacy of equivocation.

Lying by implication is not, in general, a good way to determine the truth.

Dave
 
Is the photo below a paradigm of fake photos? It would have been rather nonsensical for the Lunar Module to climb above the Command Module only in order to take a picture.

[qimg]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Apollo_11_CSM_photographed_from_Lunar_Module_%28AS11-37-5445%29.jpg/600px-Apollo_11_CSM_photographed_from_Lunar_Module_%28AS11-37-5445%29.jpg[/qimg]

No, it demonstrates that you have no clue whatsoever about orbital mechanics.

Both CSM and LM had elliptical orbits, thus either one could be at a higher altitude than the other at any given time.
 

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