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Bumper sticker. . .(shudder)

But why does everyone need to be truth driven? It seems to me that many people have no desire for truth and will create any fiction they wish.

I see no problem with self delusion provided they don't try to physically force their delusions on others.
Well it all depends on what the subject is, if they have limited interest then that is true, many also have their mind made up and are not interested in finding themselves wrong.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Originally Posted by Huntster
So?
So faith does not lead to truth.

We do not know. That is why one must employ faith, doubt, or indifference.

Faith might lead to truth, and it might not.

One could stumble upon the truth accidentally be employing faith, but it is far more likely that one will simply choose a faith that is pleasing to oneself but that has no basis in reality.

Similarly, one could stumble upon the truth accidentally by employing doubt, but it is far more likely that a policy of employing doubt will result in doubting everything for which there is no proof.

Thus, one lives a life of eternal doubt; the negative side of the equation.

No, thanks. I'll stick to the positive side.
 
Thus, one lives a life of eternal doubt; the negative side of the equation.

No, thanks. I'll stick to the positive side.
There is also the "neutral point" of the equation and that is the "uncertain/I don't know yet" view. It is neither doubt nor faith but a reservation until more data is available. I would have to guess that this is Foster Zygote's position.
 
The lack of proof leaves question. That question will result in faith, doubt, or indifference.
Often it leads to discovery. It is the lack of proof that drove many scientists and philosophers to question assumptions and to find new paradigms and discovery. Doubt is a very good thing. In fact it could be a good word to describe science and skepticism. But don't mistake doubt for a passive thing or simply rejection of orthodoxy. Skeptics don't just doubt, they continue to seek answers and not simply accept or reject current beliefs. That's the mark of science and progress.
 
Originally Posted by Huntster
Thus, one lives a life of eternal doubt; the negative side of the equation.

No, thanks. I'll stick to the positive side.
There is also the "neutral point" of the equation and that is the "uncertain/I don't know yet" view. It is neither doubt nor faith but a reservation until more data is available.

Correct. I call that the "indifference" side. The question is uncertain, and the person really isn't concerned enough to exercise faith or doubt. They simply await further information.
 
Originally Posted by Huntster
The lack of proof leaves question. That question will result in faith, doubt, or indifference.

Often it leads to discovery.

That is an attempt to put doubt in a better light. Doubt does not lead to discovery.

Inquiry does.

Doubters and faithful both are capable of inquiry.
 
Correct. I call that the "indifference" side. The question is uncertain, and the person really isn't concerned enough to exercise faith or doubt. They simply await further information.
I don't think it is as passive a position as you make it. uncertainty means you need more information. That can be a strong instigator to perform experiments to learn more. At least this has been my primary motivator in my work. I don't doubt or have faith in a unknown. I have uncertainty.

Although, there have been times i've doubted myself and my ideas and had faith in myself and my ideas, but that isn't the same thing.
 
No, doubt is that which destroys ignorance. It was doubt that replaced geocentrism with heliocentrism. It was doubt that pushed Columbus into the unkown.

Bullspit.

If Columbus didn't have faith that the world was round, he never would have left Europe.

It wasn't doubt of the claims of a flat world, it was faith that the world was round.

Doubt says I'm not sure so let's find out.

No, it isn't.

Doubt says "I doubt that".

"Let's find out" is inquiry.
 
Originally Posted by Huntster
Correct. I call that the "indifference" side. The question is uncertain, and the person really isn't concerned enough to exercise faith or doubt. They simply await further information.

I don't think it is as passive a position as you make it. uncertainty means you need more information.

Correct. However, there is nothing in either faith or doubt that mandates whether or not you will seek that information you need.

That is why there is indifference. One isn't motivated enough to utilize either faith or doubt.

That can be a strong instigator to perform experiments to learn more. At least this has been my primary motivator in my work. I don't doubt or have faith in a unknown. I have uncertainty.

Okay. Then you have utilized inquiry.

So do you wish to add "inquiry" to "faith", "doubt", and "indifference"?

I can go for that, but I really think inquiry is another stage which either the faithful or doubter is capable of moving to.
 
Originally Posted by Huntster
Then you are a denialist.

You are denying it.
No, you need labels for people...

I don't need labels for people. I really don't give much of a damn what you are (even if I already have an opinion of what that might mean).

I guess you can call me "indifferent" regarding what you think or what you think you know.

I don't, denying something that isn't is just being right.

Therefore, you claim to know something that is unknowable, that something is that God doesn't exist, thus you deny God exists (even though you can't possibly verify that).

You are a denialist.

Sorry. It's the language. Language is a science. It's undeniable. There's proof.
 
You know that no matter what Huntster, your going to work that word faith into the conversation if it is relative or not.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
If Columbus didn't have faith that the world was round, he never would have left Europe.
First off, whether the world was round or not was not an issue to Columbus.

To have faith in an idea that is counter to orthodoxy one must first doubt the orthodoxy.

Doubt says "I doubt that".

"Let's find out" is inquiry.
One usually precedes the other.
 

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