Building demolished from the top down.

[A W Smith]

Now that you have stepped into the fecal matter that is explosive demolition, let me remind you that at least on the perimeter. It wasn't only the truss seats that tied the floors to the exterior column trees. There were also "V" bars that were welded to brackets on the spandrel plates between truss centers. These were embedded into the floor slab and were attached to the upper chords of the trusses. So its not so easy to disconnect the floors at least at the perimeter.

 

[Java Man]

So you are abandoning your notion that a small amount of force was concentrated on one place?

No I'm not, because I never held it in the first place.

You're taking that analogy on your own. I never meant it that way. A simple concentrated charge can break the 5/8" piece holding the floor struss to the columns. It's not that there is one uber charge breaking them all. They are small charges which are focused on what they need to do, break the 5/8" piece. It's small element and a shaped charge can break it.

Stretched skin?? Hahahahaha, where do you get this stuff?

 

[A W Smith]

And at the interior, the reinforced slab which is composite with the truss due to the embedded knuckles, wraps around the core columns and bears on the girder that wasps around the entire core.

 

[jaydeehess]

Yup, just like NIST inferred columns exposed to higher heat levels because the sample size was too small to rule them out. Even when none were actually found.

As Lefty S said NIST had samples from others areas and the FEA they created using data and methods derived frtom decades of fire engineering.

The FEA correctly predicted not only the temperature of the steel at the locations of the samples it also predicted the observed spread of the fire.

You keep brushing this aside even going so far as to suggest that NIST fudged the whole thing.

Thus you simply ignore, or worse, evidence that contradicts your bald contentions.

If you are interested in 'truth' then why would you do that?

 

[ozeco41]

Aside from being destroyed by the same explosion I'd add the same way computer hardware disappeared. Telling a PC board piece from a device like that. Wire for that from wire the coil of a wrecked laptop power supply. Then there's the added complexity that they were not being actively searched for, as you claimed here nobody believed in explosives...

Of course nobody believed in explosives.

There never was any reason to look for explosives or, as I said on another forum in this context, they did not look for Santa's custard which Rudolph tipped off the Christmas pud. to lighten the sleigh.

Both are equally likely.

Explosives are a totally constructed figment of the imagination of the so called "truth movement".

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Explosive remains in the human remains is something to be found in the scenario were larger explosives are used. If explosives are used locally on the supports there is no exposure of humans to the devastating effects of explosives.

I did not say explosive remains were found within human remains. I said human remains have been located as late as last year; that in many incidences they consisted on small bone fragments at most. Explosive materials are identifiable using some of the same methods used to ID human remains. You cannot reconcile this.

Once again you're looking for explosive damage on the columns when all you need to release a floor is cut a 5/8 piece of metal.

You don't get it do you? Explosives release energy; enough to cut through the material. It doesn't matter where you cut it, it will leave physical indicators pointing to its use. Out of all of the perimeter and core columns examined signs pointed to shear failure during the collapse process. Not a single one pointed to features exclusive to explosives including but not limited to; cuts, blast trauma, shrapnel, or fractures that are immediately characteristic of explosive detonations. Whether you like it or not, since the evidence simply, and absolutely doesn't exist, any theory/speculation pertaining to the idea can be dismissed outright. In otherwords your speculation is more or less a waste of time beyond playing mental gymnastics.

Effects similar to thermite were found and attributed to something else. Now once again let us not fall into the one theory excludes the other fallacy. There can be thermite equivalent effects produced by non thermite causes, but among them there can be real thermite remains which are being brushed away in the bigger "its not thermite, its something else theory".

There's no evidence that thermite was present to begin with. No damage to any of the recovered steel consistent with 4000oF temperatures and the like; that is, unless you prefer to include clean-up related cuts at the base of the building which have nothing to do with causing the collapse in the first place. Like I've said repeatedly, you can play fence-sitter all day critiquing any argument you want with your own opinions, but your critiques lack any relevance because you continue wanting to speculate rather than define your case with specific examples of where you find fault with the reports. If there's any reason you get constantly barraged with responses, then that would be it.

 

[aggle-rithm]

You're taking that analogy on your own. I never meant it that way. A simple concentrated charge can break the 5/8" piece holding the floor struss to the columns. It's not that there is one uber charge breaking them all. They are small charges which are focused on what they need to do, break the 5/8" piece. It's small element and a shaped charge can break it.

HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of small charges. It would have been a huge project that couldn't have gone unnoticed in a busy high-rise. Setting them off simultaneously would have made a HUGE sound, and would have had visible effects.

None of this was observed.

Stretched skin?? Hahahahaha, where do you get this stuff?

As fascinating as it is to observe someone trying as hard as you are to make an untenable position sound reasonable, I've got more productive things to do with my time.

You are clearly either a sociopath (you have what you believe is rock-solid proof of horrendous crimes, but you don't care enough to report it to anyone in authority), or you are a common troll. Either way, you're not worth my time.

Lotsa luck with the whole delusion thing.

 

[triforcharity]

On all floors? Wow that's a lot of dogs. No wonder the WTC wasn't profitable, all that dog food must cost millions a year.

They patroled the loading docks, the entrances, etc. I would even be willing to bet that they patroled the floors on occasion too.

 

[TruthersLie]

bump for JM. YOu seem to have missed this.

Please note one of the calls is on the 83rd floor (you know... just above the impact zone and the fire zone... where you claim they could have had explosives to start the collapse.

ah...
then I'm sure you can show us the sounds of these explosions ABOVE the imapct zone. The ones you claim.

I mean it isn't like there is audio proof of anyone above the impact zones which refutes your explosives ABOVE the impact zone... oh wait.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/911-phone-calls-from-the-towers/articles/more-about-the-programme

I'm sure in all of the audio from the people trapped above the impact zones you can hear those explosives... you can hear them in this right?


Please tell me where you can hear the explosives in this heart breaking phone call. I'll wait for it.

I'm sure you can hear the explosives in this audio tape...


Please point them out to me.

or please provide any audio evidence. I"m sure that people in the towers MUST have heard any explosives... Please provide some evidence.

 

[Java Man]

HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of small charges. It would have been a huge project that couldn't have gone unnoticed in a busy high-rise. Setting them off simultaneously would have made a HUGE sound, and would have had visible effects.

Where are you coming up with this? Why would it make a loud noise? Well maybe a bang, but hey that was reported. And BTW it was also inside the building prior to collapse so it could have been mistaken for other things. Plus, unfortunately there were no survivors close enough to witness that. So you really can't claim it wasn't heard. Maybe it was, but nobody survived to tell about it.

 

[LightningTeg]

Where are you coming up with this? Why would it make a loud noise? Well maybe a bang, but hey that was reported. And BTW it was also inside the building prior to collapse so it could have been mistaken for other things. Plus, unfortunately there were no survivors close enough to witness that. So you really can't claim it wasn't heard. Maybe it was, but nobody survived to tell about it.

And the residue from the charges on any of the steel collected? There is NO evidence.

 

[Java Man]

bump for JM. YOu seem to have missed this.

Please note one of the calls is on the 83rd floor (you know... just above the impact zone and the fire zone... where you claim they could have had explosives to start the collapse.

I can't seem to open the one below, but looking at the source code it seems to be the same video as the one above. Can you just place the links please.

In regards to the first video which I could see I have the following to comment.

It's on the 105 floor not the 83 as you claim.
The line goes dead shortly after he says Ohhh and there is a lot of background noise.
Shouldn't the cell phone have free fallen until crushup caught on the floor?
It seems like the floor collapses quickly and shortly after he says "oh".

It proves that floor 105 fell quickly in the whereabouts of collapse initiation. I say whereabouts because there is no time stamp on the transcript. A bit of omission on the editor's part.

Could the background noise be the "blasts" we are so dearly expecting? Notice that his concern was with the smoke. He never mentions any tremors or titling or similar concerns that would indicate a fault in the structure prior to collapse. And all of a sudden bang.

 

[Java Man]

bump for JM. YOu seem to have missed this.

Please note one of the calls is on the 83rd floor (you know... just above the impact zone and the fire zone... where you claim they could have had explosives to start the collapse.

Oh, almost forgot. It does come to show that explosives could have survived in those floors until the very last moment. Nowhere near the ludicrous claims of 300º temps there as brought up by some debunkers here. Comes to show how sloppy they've gotten due to the lack of burden of proof.

 

[Java Man]

And the residue from the charges on any of the steel collected? There is NO evidence.

Maybe they missed it. The were not looking for explosives anyway. Then there is also the molten metal. Which of course has been explained by other reasons. But that doesn't exclude that among those molten metal remains there were some with real thermite damage. And now with all the evidence shipped away an reprocessed, well it's to late for you to go out and prove conclusively that there is NO evidence.

 

[TruthersLie]

Where are you coming up with this? Why would it make a loud noise? Well maybe a bang, but hey that was reported. And BTW it was also inside the building prior to collapse so it could have been mistaken for other things. Plus, unfortunately there were no survivors close enough to witness that. So you really can't claim it wasn't heard. Maybe it was, but nobody survived to tell about it.

and maybe little pixies ran up into the building and turned parts of it into swiss cheese.

maybe mothra did it.

maybe

maybe

maybe.

This isn't a "maybe" kind of event.

The sound of the types of charges required would have been clearly audible (especially since you keep on harping on that huge hole in the side of the building.)

Where is the evidence? Oh you don't have any. Just bald ass speculation.

 

[TruthersLie]

I can't seem to open the one below, but looking at the source code it seems to be the same video as the one above. Can you just place the links please.

In regards to the first video which I could see I have the following to comment.

It's on the 105 floor not the 83 as you claim.
The line goes dead shortly after he says Ohhh and there is a lot of background noise.
Shouldn't the cell phone have free fallen until crushup caught on the floor?
It seems like the floor collapses quickly and shortly after he says "oh".

Kevin Costgrave was on the 105th.
Where are the sounds of explosives in his audio? Where are the complaints of explosions or the building rumbling? It should be clealry audible. Yet there is nothing.

And I LOVE your last bit there... about the cell phone having fallen free until the crush up. What an insect you are. This man DIED on the phone to people who were trying to save him. Those were HIS LAST WORDS before he ws horribly and horrendously crushed to death.

The call from the 83rd floor is the second clip which is here. If you spent 30 seconds doing basic research you could EASILY find it. But instead you try to spin fantasies which are baseless and without evidence.

Here it is




where are the explosions?
How about in the dozens (if not hundreds) of other cell phone calls from the people who died in the towers?

Could the background noise be the "blasts" we are so dearly expecting? Notice that his concern was with the smoke. He never mentions any tremors or titling or similar concerns that would indicate a fault in the structure prior to collapse. And all of a sudden bang.

Where is the "bang?"

I don't hear one. I hear the building collapsing and killing him.

 

[TruthersLie]

Oh, almost forgot. It does come to show that explosives could have survived in those floors until the very last moment. Nowhere near the ludicrous claims of 300º temps there as brought up by some debunkers here. Comes to show how sloppy they've gotten due to the lack of burden of proof.

In the fire zone the temps were over 300 C. Your own "expert" Danny J says that the detonators would fail.

Are you saying that he is wrong?

 

[TruthersLie]

Maybe they missed it. The were not looking for explosives anyway. Then there is also the molten metal. Which of course has been explained by other reasons. But that doesn't exclude that among those molten metal remains there were some with real thermite damage. And now with all the evidence shipped away an reprocessed, well it's to late for you to go out and prove conclusively that there is NO evidence.

Gish galloping noted and rejected. Nice attempt to shift shift shift.

maybe it was pixie dust.
maybe it was mothra
maybe it could have been a DEW
maybe it could have been HAARP
maybe it could have been AARP
maybe it could have been 20000 ninjaneers.
wowsers batman, you just cracked the case.

 

[TruthersLie]

JM.

I'm sure there must be some audio evidence
maybe in here


or maybe in here



Oh wait... da gubmint must have blocked it out.

and you claim it would be quiet...
this is a small BOLT breaking on a crane under load.


You can clearly hear that... outside, with the wind and other things running, while being several hundred feet away from the crane.

Amazing...
Yet not one person hear your "mini" charges on hundreds of support columns. absolutely amazing.

 

[Java Man]

And I LOVE your last bit there... about the cell phone having fallen free until the crush up. What an insect you are. This man DIED on the phone to people who were trying to save him. Those were HIS LAST WORDS before he ws horribly and horrendously crushed to death.

Now you come around with the personal attacks calling me an insect! I'm quite sure we all know what happened. He was crushed. Others died on impact. Others must have burned to death in the ensuring fireball. Yet some others plunged to their death.

Please don't disregard a very valid questioning I'm putting forward by pulling the sentimental line. If someone is an insect here it is you for using his death as a shield not to answer the question.

The line goes dead shortly afterward. Not that he drops it. It goes dead as if the cell phone is destroyed. But we are only a fraction of a second into the collapse. What could have caused the cell phone to go dead so soon?

Once again that supports my theory that something fell on them early in the collapse. Or maybe an explosion occurred near them killing them and destroying the apparatus. They clearly state that they are near a window.