Building demolished from the top down.

[Java Man]

The only problem with this alternate mechanism is that you have to find a way to make them disappear after they are triggered. Otherwise, since there would have to be at least one such mechanism for each bolt you wanted to cut, the investigators looking through the rubble would have found THOUSANDS of them. One or two they might overlook, but at some point, someone is going to say, "What the hell are THESE things?"

Aside from being destroyed by the same explosion I'd add the same way computer hardware disappeared. Telling a PC board piece from a device like that. Wire for that from wire the coil of a wrecked laptop power supply. Then there's the added complexity that they were not being actively searched for, as you claimed here nobody believed in explosives. Isn't that your position? More so there is the issue of pieces exposed to high temperatures which were never found either, but that didn't stop the official report from considering them in their models. Simply put, not finding something hasn't stopped the official report from including it. Why can't I enjoy the same privilege?

ETA: Oh, let us not forget that the connections between the floors and perimeter columns were strong enough to bow the columns inward when the floors began to sag...it would take quite a bit of energy to sever them all in one fell swoop. Where did this energy come from?

Not really. It's concentrated energy that matters. Skin is very strong to pulling and stretching yet easy to cut with a sharp knife.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Let's just keep in mind, that human remains have been found off and on as late as last year despite construction of the Freedom Tower getting underway. If we had explosive or incendiary agents in the debris, it would have been found, even if it had been years after the fact, and sometimes in the most unexpected of manners, for example, the suicide note from the hijacker of PSA 1771 which turned the plane into confetti was located, identifying the culprit right away. Damage to the columns of the WTC consistent with the use of explosives could substitute the lack of physic remains of explosive agents, yet strangely despite all of your speculation, no such traces have ever been found, absolutely none, and this includes cases where the signs would stick out like a uranium glowstick.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Aside from being destroyed by the same explosion I'd add the same way computer hardware disappeared. Telling a PC board piece from a device like that. Wire for that from wire the coil of a wrecked laptop power supply.

These components cannot cut through steel. The parts that can, being durable enough to cut through steel and numerous enough to cut through the many connections, would be found, even if 90% of them were destroyed or overlooked.

Then there's the added complexity that they were not being actively searched for, as you claimed here nobody believed in explosives. Isn't that your position?

Not looking for something there is no reason to look for doesn't add complexity.

More so there is the issue of pieces exposed to high temperatures which were never found either, but that didn't stop the official report from considering them in their models. Simply put, not finding something hasn't stopped the official report from including it. Why can't I enjoy the same privilege?

It is reasonable to assume that conditions that are often found in office fires were present. It is NOT reasonable to assume complex mechanisms installed as part of an even more complex plot.

THAT's why.

Not really. It's concentrated energy that matters. Skin is very strong to pulling and stretching yet easy to cut with a sharp knife.

Easy to cut with a sharp knife in one place. How about skinning an entire organism in the space of one second? That is the equivalent of what we're talking about here; removing hundreds of connections simultaneously.

 

[Java Man]

Let's just keep in mind, that human remains have been found off and on as late as last year despite construction of the Freedom Tower getting underway. If we had explosive or incendiary agents in the debris, it would have been found, even if it had been years after the fact, and sometimes in the most unexpected of manners, for example, the suicide note from the hijacker of PSA 1771 which turned the plane into confetti was located, identifying the culprit right away. Damage to the columns of the WTC consistent with the use of explosives could substitute the lack of physic remains of explosive agents, yet strangely despite all of your speculation, no such traces have ever been found, absolutely none, and this includes cases where the signs would stick out like a uranium glowstick.

Explosive remains in the human remains is something to be found in the scenario were larger explosives are used. If explosives are used locally on the supports there is no exposure of humans to the devastating effects of explosives. Once again you're looking for explosive damage on the columns when all you need to release a floor is cut a 5/8 piece of metal.

Effects similar to thermite were found and attributed to something else. Now once again let us not fall into the one theory excludes the other fallacy. There can be thermite equivalent effects produced by non thermite causes, but among them there can be real thermite remains which are being brushed away in the bigger "its not thermite, its something else theory".

 

[Java Man]

These components cannot cut through steel. The parts that can, being durable enough to cut through steel and numerous enough to cut through the many connections, would be found, even if 90% of them were destroyed or overlooked.

Hahaha, good one. You think explosives cut through metal with the PC board of their circuitry rather than the explosive itself? Hahahaha

Easy to cut with a sharp knife in one place. How about skinning an entire organism in the space of one second? That is the equivalent of what we're talking about here; removing hundreds of connections simultaneously.

Equivalent. Hahahaha, once again you're trying to stretch things out. Skinning an entire organism, hahahahaha. What goes through your head when you come up with stuff like this. This is by no way the equivalent of anything we are talking here. What would you've equated it to had I mentioned a guillotine cutting through a stack of papers? Or an ax through wood. You miss the point that a relatively low force concentrated on a small area by means of a sharp blade can cut through things. My hand can't cut paper, but using the guillotine it can easily cut it. My arms can't break the wood, but they easily can using the ax. Concentrating a small explosive charge will also cut through metal.

 

[alienentity]

I never said the projections were produced by explosives. I stated that the projections were product of overpressure from falling floors. The misuse of the term squib has already been addressed by another member and I've refrained from using it instead of the correct term "projections".

Exactly. Your inquiry serves only to demonstrate that the building was collapsing. We already know this.

The video I linked to demonstrates that 'projections' are going to happen when a building collapses, even without explosives. So such phenomena cannot tell you whether explosives were used or not.

Get the point now?

 

[alienentity]

Further complicating your argument for explosives is the engineering and human obstacle to placing cutter charges in numerous locations of an occupied office building.

Not that you've even begun to properly justify this truther myth, but it is a ludicrous and absurd idea. Yes, to the technically illiterate CD cultist it may seem to offer a glimmer of hope, but it's still a laughable premise.


* note: it's already been pointed out to you by others, but as the Truther arguments for CD become year by year closer to the claim 'indistinguishable from a collapse from fire and purposefully engineered to look that way' they become ever more irrelevant. Technically knowledgeable people look at the complete absence of evidence for CD as fatal to that theory; truthers see the exact opposite. Truthers are in all probability wrong.

 

[Java Man]

Exactly. Your inquiry serves only to demonstrate that the building was collapsing. We already know this.

The video I linked to demonstrates that 'projections' are going to happen when a building collapses, even without explosives. So such phenomena cannot tell you whether explosives were used or not.

Get the point now?

Yes I get your point, but it seems you don't get mine. I'm not even getting into the explosives yet. Just pointing out as you clearly state that those projections are occurring and doing so way above the collapse zone. Thus using that to support my theory that a controlled demolition was initiated by releasing floor panels many stories above the impact zone. A much simpler task than the generally proposed "cut the core columns" theory.

Now you get my point?

 

[alienentity]

Y Just pointing out as you clearly state that those projections are occurring and doing so way above the collapse zone.

You mean do I understand that you've invented another misinterpretation of the collapse to support yet another flavour of CD theory? Yes, I understand perfectly what you are attempting to do.

But in order to even come close to a legitimate theory, you'd have to properly define both the 'collapse zone' and the other areas in question, which you haven't even begun to do.

I suggest that, instead of just throwing any wild idea hoping it will stick, as you are doing, that you go back home and carefully and thoroughly research the idea before presenting it.
In fairness you haven't got a theory (beyond a guess) yet, let alone begun to prove it.

 

[alienentity]

I'm not even getting into the explosives yet.

Don't bother. You're wasting everybody's time. You're just going to end up having to infer explosives without evidence, like every other truther on the planet.

The flat earth you see is not flat. Your efforts are futile and pointless.

 

[Java Man]

Further complicating your argument for explosives is the engineering and human obstacle to placing cutter charges in numerous locations of an occupied office building.

Unless it is not occupied as in a weekend and unless you don't need to place charges in every floor. Thus greatly simplifying things.

 

[Java Man]

Don't bother. You're wasting everybody's time. You're just going to end up having to infer explosives without evidence, like every other truther on the planet.

Yup, just like NIST inferred columns exposed to higher heat levels because the sample size was too small to rule them out. Even when none were actually found.

 

[triforcharity]

Unless it is not occupied as in a weekend and unless you don't need to place charges in every floor. Thus greatly simplifying things.

Well, you know, forget the fact that this building was occupied damn near 24/7/365. You seem to conveniently forget about that.

Also, you seem to forget, that if someone came into your office, and started tearing down ceilings and walls, that it would be noticed.

Also forget that the dogs that were there 24/7/365 also.

But yeah, other than that.....

 

[Java Man]

Well, you know, forget the fact that this building was occupied damn near 24/7/365. You seem to conveniently forget about that.

Also, you seem to forget, that if someone came into your office, and started tearing down ceilings and walls, that it would be noticed.

Also forget that the dogs that were there 24/7/365 also.

But yeah, other than that.....

On all floors? Wow that's a lot of dogs. No wonder the WTC wasn't profitable, all that dog food must cost millions a year.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Equivalent. Hahahaha, once again you're trying to stretch things out. Skinning an entire organism, hahahahaha. What goes through your head when you come up with stuff like this. This is by no way the equivalent of anything we are talking here. What would you've equated it to had I mentioned a guillotine cutting through a stack of papers? Or an ax through wood. You miss the point that a relatively low force concentrated on a small area by means of a sharp blade can cut through things. My hand can't cut paper, but using the guillotine it can easily cut it. My arms can't break the wood, but they easily can using the ax. Concentrating a small explosive charge will also cut through metal.

No, YOU miss the point. In the hypothesis you seem to be putting forth, you suggest that all or most of the supports of a floor are severed simultaneously. This is not "a" small explosive charge cutting through "a" support. It is many such charges.

If some other mechanism was used, then the same would be true. It would take a lot of these mechanisms, not one.

Unless you are prepared to speculate on how a single, concentrated force could simultaneously sever all the supports on one floor?

 

[aggle-rithm]

On all floors? Wow that's a lot of dogs. No wonder the WTC wasn't profitable, all that dog food must cost millions a year.

If it wasn't profitable, why were so many groups competing for the lease?

 

[Java Man]

No, YOU miss the point. In the hypothesis you seem to be putting forth, you suggest that all or most of the supports of a floor are severed simultaneously. This is not "a" small explosive charge cutting through "a" support. It is many such charges.

If some other mechanism was used, then the same would be true. It would take a lot of these mechanisms, not one.

Unless you are prepared to speculate on how a single, concentrated force could simultaneously sever all the supports on one floor?

Why should I speculate that one single force should do it? Many charges can be set, there is no problem with that.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Why should I speculate that one single force should do it? Many charges can be set, there is no problem with that.

So you are abandoning your notion that a small amount of force was concentrated on one place?

Remember, this all started with my comment:

Oh, let us not forget that the connections between the floors and perimeter columns were strong enough to bow the columns inward when the floors began to sag...it would take quite a bit of energy to sever them all in one fell swoop. Where did this energy come from?

You replied:

Not really. It's concentrated energy that matters. Skin is very strong to pulling and stretching yet easy to cut with a sharp knife.

If we take this skin as being an analogue to one of the floor modules in the WTC towers, it wouldn't be sufficient to "cut" it in one place. It would be like a piece of skin stretched among hundreds or thousands of connection points. You would have to cut all the connections simultaneously. How do you do that using "concentrated energy"?

The whole notion is so convoluted that it's difficult to believe that you really expect anyone to take it seriously.

 

[leftysergeant]

Yup, just like NIST inferred columns exposed to higher heat levels because the sample size was too small to rule them out. Even when none were actually found.

Yeah, right. But they had a better sample of heat-damaged columns than you lot have of explosive-damaged floor brackets, which is precisely sod-all.

You are also missing witnesses to explosions loud enough to have been sufficient to sever any steel structure stronger than the roof of a KIA sedan.

 

[LightningTeg]

Those projections you pointed out are very large. If they were caused by explosives, once again WHERE IS THE SOUND!?

Why were none of these devices or their components ever found in the remains? If they were explosives, something would have least have to have been holding the explosive in the correct position. Where are those devices?