• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: Brexit XII

I've never seen the problem with personalised ads.
They are going to be there anyway, they might as well be of things I may have an interest in.
 
Andy_Ross said:
I've never seen the problem with personalised ads.
They are going to be there anyway, they might as well be of things I may have an interest in.
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The only way to personalise ads and video recommendations is to collect data on you. If they are not serving you personalised videos, they don't need to collect the data.

That said, this is a nothing burger. This is not about the ads but the video recommendations. I'd much rather Tik Tok recommended videos I might be interested in than videos from the place I live. And since the recommendations are picked based on videos the users have already watched, the only way to not collect the relevant data is to not remember the users' history. That would be pretty daft.
 
jeremyp said:
The only way to personalise ads and video recommendations is to collect data on you. If they are not serving you personalised videos, they don't need to collect the data.

That said, this is a nothing burger. This is not about the ads but the video recommendations. I'd much rather Tik Tok recommended videos I might be interested in than videos from the place I live. And since the recommendations are picked based on videos the users have already watched, the only way to not collect the relevant data is to not remember the users' history. That would be pretty daft.
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I can think of some reasons you might want to turn them off, even if only temporarily. I don't use Tic-Tok but there are times when I might consider clicking on a link from here or elsewhere because someone thinks it makes a compelling argument for their particular woo-woo. Sometimes I might want to watch some random niche interest geeky Star Wars video or something because the title intrigues me. It would be nice to be able to do so without it then filling my feed with every similar video.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
I can think of some reasons you might want to turn them off, even if only temporarily. I don't use Tic-Tok but there are times when I might consider clicking on a link from here or elsewhere because someone thinks it makes a compelling argument for their particular woo-woo. Sometimes I might want to watch some random niche interest geeky Star Wars video or something because the title intrigues me. It would be nice to be able to do so without it then filling my feed with every similar video.
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Well yes, having the option would be nice but I don’t miss it on YouTube (I don’t watch tik Tok either).
 
I've probably asked this question before, but why do certain people persist in thinking that the UK can enter the Customs Union and Single Market without first joining the EU?

I know this idea isn't posed here too much, but I see it lots of places elsewhere the matter is discussed and it always bugs me, because the idea is an obvious non starter. The closest arrangement possible is being part of the EEA through EFTA membership (which is not happening), which offers access to some aspects of both with financial and rule taking obligations.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
I've probably asked this question before, but why do certain people persist in thinking that the UK can enter the Customs Union and Single Market without first joining the EU?

I know this idea isn't posed here too much, but I see it lots of places elsewhere the matter is discussed and it always bugs me, because the idea is an obvious non starter. The closest arrangement possible is being part of the EEA through EFTA membership (which is not happening), which offers access to some aspects of both with financial and rule taking obligations.
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It's obviously just some kind of admin error as we were reassured before the Brexit vote we would not be leaving the single market.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
I've probably asked this question before, but why do certain people persist in thinking that the UK can enter the Customs Union and Single Market without first joining the EU?

I know this idea isn't posed here too much, but I see it lots of places elsewhere the matter is discussed and it always bugs me, because the idea is an obvious non starter. The closest arrangement possible is being part of the EEA through EFTA membership (which is not happening), which offers access to some aspects of both with financial and rule taking obligations.
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I think the real question is why would we want to? It seems pointless to me to rejoin the single market and agree to abide by the rules without having some say in the rules. The only way to get that influence is to rejoin the EU.
 
jeremyp said:
I think the real question is why would we want to? It seems pointless to me to rejoin the single market and agree to abide by the rules without having some say in the rules. The only way to get that influence is to rejoin the EU.
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Reasons I can think of:

  • A political commitment has been made not to re-join the EU but no similar commitment has been made w.r.t. single market membership
  • Other post-Brexit trade deals the UK has signed up to prohibit EU membership but not single market membership - though I struggle to think how that could come about
  • The EU refuse to have the UK re-join (because of fears of future disruptive behaviour) but are willing to allow the UK to join the single market - as long as we abide by the rules
  • The prerequisites for EU membership are much more onerous than those for single market membership (a commitment to join the Euro may be one, Schengen membership may be another)

I'm 56 and intend to live for a good while longer. I cannot envisage the UK deciding to re-join the EU in my lifetime. It'll be a long time before the true penalties of Brexit become apparent and the right wing press are currently (and possibly always) strongly pro-Brexit. It'll be 10-20 years before there's any kind of impetus and at least that long before there are any significant steps towards re-joining.
 
The Don said:
Reasons I can think of:

  • A political commitment has been made not to re-join the EU but no similar commitment has been made w.r.t. single market membership
  • Other post-Brexit trade deals the UK has signed up to prohibit EU membership but not single market membership - though I struggle to think how that could come about
  • The EU refuse to have the UK re-join (because of fears of future disruptive behaviour) but are willing to allow the UK to join the single market - as long as we abide by the rules
  • The prerequisites for EU membership are much more onerous than those for single market membership (a commitment to join the Euro may be one, Schengen membership may be another)



I'm 56 and intend to live for a good while longer. I cannot envisage the UK deciding to re-join the EU in my lifetime. It'll be a long time before the true penalties of Brexit become apparent and the right wing press are currently (and possibly always) strongly pro-Brexit. It'll be 10-20 years before there's any kind of impetus and at least that long before there are any significant steps towards re-joining.
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I think impetus will start sooner. I can imagine the 2029 election having rejoining as part of the discussion.

Like you, I don't think it will come quickly, but I can imagine an increasingly closer realignment. Yes, leaving has hurt the UK more than the EU, but there are still benefits to the EU of having the UK more aligned with the EU and in the single market - and freedom of movement goods and people might become more popular here too.

Somewhere between Norway and Switzerland at first.

Of course, Sunak is trying his best to trash this with other mutually-exclusive trade deals.
 
The Don said:
Reasons I can think of:

  • A political commitment has been made not to re-join the EU but no similar commitment has been made w.r.t. single market membership
  • Other post-Brexit trade deals the UK has signed up to prohibit EU membership but not single market membership - though I struggle to think how that could come about
  • The EU refuse to have the UK re-join (because of fears of future disruptive behaviour) but are willing to allow the UK to join the single market - as long as we abide by the rules
  • The prerequisites for EU membership are much more onerous than those for single market membership (a commitment to join the Euro may be one, Schengen membership may be another)

I'm 56 and intend to live for a good while longer. I cannot envisage the UK deciding to re-join the EU in my lifetime. It'll be a long time before the true penalties of Brexit become apparent and the right wing press are currently (and possibly always) strongly pro-Brexit. It'll be 10-20 years before there's any kind of impetus and at least that long before there are any significant steps towards re-joining.
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The simple fact of the matter is that it is extremely unlikely that the UK will ever rejoin the EU, as it will not have enough support from within the EU to gain accession for the length of its existence.

The six counties will rejoin on reunification, that's guaranteed. Scotland would probably be allowed in a few years after independence. But for England, I can see fifty years plus of a struggle to join.

PS a necessary prerequisite for membership of the Single Market is membership of the European Union. If you're not a member, at best you'll get access to some aspects of it. And then only if you're a complete rule taker.
 
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You could enter EFTA (European Free Trade Association) and apply for EEA (European Economic Area) which would grant you back access to Single market. This would get you pretty far. Assuming you can (and want) get into EFTA...
 
Klimax said:
You could enter EFTA (European Free Trade Association) and apply for EEA (European Economic Area) which would grant you back access to Single market. This would get you pretty far. Assuming you can (and want) get into EFTA...
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It would grant you access to parts of it. For example the non-EU EEA countries have significant restrictions on the agribusiness side of the Single Market placed on them.
 
The Don said:
Reasons I can think of:

  • A political commitment has been made not to re-join the EU but no similar commitment has been made w.r.t. single market membership
  • Other post-Brexit trade deals the UK has signed up to prohibit EU membership but not single market membership - though I struggle to think how that could come about
  • The EU refuse to have the UK re-join (because of fears of future disruptive behaviour) but are willing to allow the UK to join the single market - as long as we abide by the rules
  • The prerequisites for EU membership are much more onerous than those for single market membership (a commitment to join the Euro may be one, Schengen membership may be another)

I'm 56 and intend to live for a good while longer. I cannot envisage the UK deciding to re-join the EU in my lifetime. It'll be a long time before the true penalties of Brexit become apparent and the right wing press are currently (and possibly always) strongly pro-Brexit. It'll be 10-20 years before there's any kind of impetus and at least that long before there are any significant steps towards re-joining.
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I'm a year older than you and I think we'll be back in the EU in my lifetime. I don't think the extra conditions are that onerous. Schengen will be accepted because all the xenophic people of my generation and older will be dying off. Joining the Euro might be a sticking point, but there are ways to sidestep that. The EU will accept us back because our economy is still large and worth having on the inside. Apart from our decision to leave, we were generally a good citizen of the EU previously.
 
jeremyp said:
I'm a year older than you and I think we'll be back in the EU in my lifetime. I don't think the extra conditions are that onerous. Schengen will be accepted because all the xenophic people of my generation and older will be dying off. Joining the Euro might be a sticking point, but there are ways to sidestep that. The EU will accept us back because our economy is still large and worth having on the inside. Apart from our decision to leave, we were generally a good citizen of the EU previously.
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I wish I shared your optimism. Around here there's no shortage of young xenophobes willing to blame their woes on immigrants. Heck even some of my fellow Champagne Socialists get a little squirrelly at the thought of completely open EU borders.

I'm also not so sure that the UK was such a good EU citizen. We were always after special exemptions and IMO were a constant burr under the EU saddle so to speak.
 
The Don said:
I wish I shared your optimism. Around here there's no shortage of young xenophobes willing to blame their woes on immigrants. Heck even some of my fellow Champagne Socialists get a little squirrelly at the thought of completely open EU borders.

I'm also not so sure that the UK was such a good EU citizen. We were always after special exemptions and IMO were a constant burr under the EU saddle so to speak.
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The way I read the UK's actions when in the EU is that they were the US's agent on the inside, keeping the EU from getting strong enough or coherent enough to become an independent world power. Hence the UK's pushing of the Single Market and subsequent reluctance to join or meaningfully engage with it; it's insistence on pushing the massive Eastwards expnansion in the early 2000's before either the EU or the joining countires were even remotely ready*, leaving the problem of Hungary, Poland and Slovakia; the effective vetos on independent EU foreign or defence policies over the course of its membership; all the exemptions and get-out clauses that meant the UK always had one foot out the door; the adversarial attitude it took towards anything it didn't deem in its interests and with other member states are all to my mind evidence of this.

*Though the UK's bungling of the massive opportunity this gave them to catapult well beyond France or Germany as the leading EU power was hilarious. All because the country's leadership couldn't tone down the arrogance to the new members.
 
Yeah, Brexit has been an absolute pain for British musicians.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/16/simon-rattle-applies-for-german-citizenship-brexit

The conductor Simon Rattle, who announced this week that he was cutting short his tenure at Britain’s leading orchestra to return to Germany, has applied for German citizenship after Brexit.

The Liverpool-born musician lamented the barriers thrown up by Britain’s departure from the European Union to the careers of young musicians who had grown used to performing freely to the continent’s music-hungry public.

“My passport is on the way,” Rattle told a news conference on Friday, when asked if he had followed many EU-based Britons in applying for citizenship that will let them continue to work freely around the bloc. “Like for many, this was an absolute necessity.”
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I did my usual thing going to and fro the UK this weekend of changing nationalities somewhere over the Channel.
 
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