Hmmm. Circumstances have changed somewhat, wouldn't you say?
If I had been a Scottish voter in the last 2 referendums I would think it only fair to have another go at indyref.
Brexit: the referendum
- Thread starter MikeG
- Start date
Hmmm. Circumstances have changed somewhat, wouldn't you say?
If I had been a Scottish voter in the last 2 referendums I would think it only fair to have another go at indyref.
That wasn't the question the Scottish voters were asked. Of course things will change after any referendum and that doesn't nullify the result of the referendum.
Circumstances are always going to be changing.
(cut down quote)
How long does a referendum result last? How much change is required to nullify it ?
You can apply those criteria to the Indyref. Presumably you also should apply that to Brexit?
However I suspect people will not agree on the answers to those questions.
In the UK Parliament cannot bind itself - so any parliament can reverse any decision that it or any previous parliament has made. It would seem odd to me that a referendum bound the country in perpetuity. By analogy, do you need another referendum to reverse the decision of a referendum?
Some changes certainly can essentially void the legitimacy of any referendum.
For example, if Westminster would refuse to go along with the devolution of powers to the parliament of Scotland, as was promised prior to referendum, in exchange for a "no" vote in the referendum, that would essentially render that result null and void.
Leaving the EU is in the same fold.
McHrozni
Seldom as dramatically as this, though.
I haven't thought about the Scots much, but here's a thought. If they go for an early referendum based on the triggering of article 50, rather than waiting a couple of years for the outcome of negotiations on the divorce proceedings, I'd suggest that opportunism and SNP ambitions would have trumped calm reflection on Scotland's national interest. Whether they have a referendum is far less interesting than when they have one, but either way, I'd expect the separatists will win this time despite the economic and currency issues.
Lothian
should be banned
I disagree. I am pro the United Kingdom, but form a Scottish point of view it would be far better to stay in Europe than to leave and rejoin. Staying in would preserve exemptions and contribution discounts that they would not get as a new joiner.
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
Indeed they are. So should we not adapt to circumstance ? E.g. use the brakes rather than run at the same speed into what look like a wall ?
As such when circumstance evolve, so should policies.
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
It is a question of negotiation. At this point I would not put it past many leader to tweak the nose of Westminster by simply giving Scotland special condition identical to what the whole UK had. I think many here underestimate how fed up many of the continental folk and leader are at the england/wales part of UK.
Farage is playing up to this. I think his impudent nastiness towards the continental MEPs was intended to poison the well for Cameron's later visit, and I believe Farage was successful in this enterprise.
In fact I have some sympathy for Cameron, but the centrist Tories did this to themselves, by calling the referendum.
Meanwhile, some rather grandiose notions have entered into the heads of a number of left wing Independentists here.
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
I don't think Farange poisoned the well much more than it already was. There is this perception that we went very far to accommodate UK, but in return we only got scorn, and the pretension from local politician we were the source of all vileness and bad stuff happening in UK. After a while (continental) people starts taking notice. UK media and UK politician with their discourse influenced people outside UK too.
Francesca R
Girl
I think that used to be the case but it's different now.
Do you not think that us being very aware of that was one of the drivers behind the Brexit vote?
Aepervius
Non credunt, semper verificare
What part ? The part of the media and politician accusing us of all evil, and us getting fed up of that ? No not really. That would be like accusing your neighbors of all kind of stuff and then pointing the finger and say "see I was right" when he becomes angry at you.
And if it was part of it, then you are incredible idiot being led by the nose by your politician and media. Thankfully I think an extreme minority of imbeciles were like that.
What I think was the biggest part of the brexit from what i could read was migration issues, and disenfranchisement of some voters by what they consider elites. Those were the huge part.
Francesca R
Girl
The below is widely regarded as a credible source
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/
I like that lapsus calami. It looks like a cross between "Farage" and "Falange". Most appropriate.
angrysoba
Philosophile
They offered up their innocence
Got repaid with scorn.
Yeah, I don't think Farage is trying to poison the well as such. He's declared his intention to damage the EU and for other countries to pull out as well.
gypsyjackson
Master Poster
In Malay, Farage is a homonym for vagina.
Lothian
should be banned
I am shocked so few people were willing to tell an interviewer that they wanted to leave because they are small minded and that they hate foreigners.
Perhaps Lord Ashcroft's research is correct and had the leave campaign not wastes all that time on immigration then they would have won with 70-80% of the vote.