Brexit: the referendum

[Lothian]

In Malay, Farage is a homonym for vagina.

In English it is a synonym for one.

 

[Ashorn]

re the ashcroft poll, I find the social attitudes section as interesting as any

"By large majorities, voters who saw multiculturalism, feminism, the Green movement, globalisation and immigration as forces for good voted to remain in the EU; those who saw them as a force for ill voted by even larger majorities to leave."

 

[Craig B]

I am shocked so few people were willing to tell an interviewer that they wanted to leave because they are small minded and that they hate foreigners.

Perhaps Lord Ashcroft's research is correct and had the leave campaign not wastes all that time on immigration then they would have won with 70-80% of the vote.

Even if he is correct, look at the leaver voters' main reasons.

Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.”​

Anti-immigrant xenophobes might very well express themselves in terms of the first reason given above. It's Johnny Foreigner in Brussels who's letting all these Poles and Slovak Roma into the UK, isn't it? That's the "decision about the UK" that most exercises them. And motive three above likewise. Are we to extend the borders of the EU to let in swarms of Turks?

 

[MikeG]

What part ? The part of the media and politician accusing us of all evil, and us getting fed up of that ? No not really. That would be like accusing your neighbors of all kind of stuff and then pointing the finger and say "see I was right" when he becomes angry at you.
And if it was part of it, then you are incredible idiot being led by the nose by your politician and media. Thankfully I think an extreme minority of imbeciles were like that.

What I think was the biggest part of the brexit from what i could read was migration issues, and disenfranchisement of some voters by what they consider elites. Those were the huge part.

You missed my point.

You said that we in Britain may not be aware of how fed up continentals and their leaders were with us. I responded by saying that we were very aware, and that knowledge of your attitude may have influenced the vote last week. You now respond by as carefully as possible calling me an idiot and an imbecile.

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

What I think was the biggest part of the brexit from what i could read was migration issues, and disenfranchisement of some voters by what they consider elites. Those were the huge part.

The below is widely regarded as a credible source

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.” Only just over one in twenty (6%) said their main reason was that “when it comes to trade and the economy, the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than from being part of it.”

Which includes decisions about how many foreigners are allowed into the UK.
ETA, and as MikeG kindly pointed out, decisions about which ones can be sent back where they came from.

 

[Aepervius]

You missed my point.

You said that we in Britain may not be aware of how fed up continentals and their leaders were with us. I responded by saying that we were very aware, and that knowledge of your attitude may have influenced the vote last week. You now respond by as carefully as possible calling me an idiot and an imbecile.

Well sorry if you take it for you, it was not intentional. I still think it is spot on though. people wallowing in poo and flinging and can't complain that other are holding their nose at the stink.

My point was that it was not cited as a major reason anywhere to leave.

 

[MikeG]

Which includes decisions about how many foreigners are allowed into the UK.

......and what we can put VAT on, and whether prisoners should be allowed to vote, and whether we can send Abu Hamsa back to whence he came. There's been 40 years of this sort of stuff, so a few resentments shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[Craig B]

Which includes decisions about how many foreigners are allowed into the UK.

Just so. Look how the explicit economic decision motive was cited by only a few respondents.

 

[Craig B]

......and what we can put VAT on, and whether prisoners should be allowed to vote, and whether we can send Abu Hamsa back to whence he came. There's been 40 years of this sort of stuff, so a few resentments shouldn't surprise anyone.

Are you by profession a leader writer for the Daily Mail?

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

......and what we can put VAT on, and whether prisoners should be allowed to vote, and whether we can send Abu Hamsa back to whence he came. There's been 40 years of this sort of stuff, so a few resentments shouldn't surprise anyone.

That's the Abu Hamza who is currently serving life imprisonment in the US, whose extradition the ECtHR delayed while it made sure he wouldn't be subject to inhumane treatment is it?

 

[Aepervius]

whether we can send Abu Hamsa back to whence he came

Which is bound by ECHR , something which is not affected by brexit ? Or am I wrong ?

ETA: and as Guybrush said : make sure no inhuman treatment like say secret prison and CIA interrogation and torture water boarding etc...

 

[CapelDodger]

re the ashcroft poll, I find the social attitudes section as interesting as any

"By large majorities, voters who saw multiculturalism, feminism, the Green movement, globalisation and immigration as forces for good voted to remain in the EU; those who saw them as a force for ill voted by even larger majorities to leave."

Confirming what's starkly obvious by direct experience for many of us, I think.

I would also expect that of the 49% most concerned by “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK” most would make decisions about immigration their main priority.

 

[Lothian]

......and what we can put VAT on, and whether prisoners should be allowed to vote, and whether we can send Abu Hamsa back to whence he came. There's been 40 years of this sort of stuff, so a few resentments shouldn't surprise anyone.

Lets hope no one was stupid enough to vote leave for these reasons.


(1) What we can put VAT on and take off does not depend purely only on EU membership. It also depends on whether we join the free trade zone. Norway, whose model is the current favourite, follows pretty much the VAT directive. It would create issues if it did not.
(2) Votes for prisoners is a result of the European Convention on Human Rights which is separate from EU membership
(3) Despite our initial view the Abu Hamsa would be allowed to remain as a result of the Human rights act (see above for separation between that and the EU) the UK courts decide that we were perfectly free to get rid of him.

However you are totally correct in that there have been 40 years of lies about the EU.

 

[Francesca R]

I am shocked so few people were willing to tell an interviewer that they wanted to leave because they are small minded and that they hate foreigners.

Sorry, actually just getting an update of that survey:

"Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. However four fifths of those uttering this response experienced a lengthening of their nose by an average of 0.025 metres immediately after they had answered. The other 20% answered with one hand behind their back concealing crossed fingers which the omni-cams in the interview van spotted. The 51% of respondents who did not give this as their biggest single reason said that they didn’t really understand what the phrase meant, but that the reason they voted leave was “to get them £$%& Polls and Sirrians the &*%^ out” [ . . . ]"

Ashcroft update

 

[Lothian]

Sorry, actually just getting an update of that survey:

Correction appreciated.

 

[Wudang]

For those confused by the current situation an excellent summary can be found here
https://www.facebook.com/benjaminblaine/posts/10153470938266707

I'd post the whole thing but I think that would breach the rules. Rather funny.

 

[catsmate]

I like that lapsus calami. It looks like a cross between "Farage" and "Falange". Most appropriate.

It always reminds me of Farang.

 

[catsmate]

......and what we can put VAT on, and whether prisoners should be allowed to vote, and whether we can send Abu Hamsa back to whence he came. There's been 40 years of this sort of stuff, so a few resentments shouldn't surprise anyone.

Yes it's terrible that some tells UKgov that they can't engage in torture, indefinitely detain someone with due process, beat prisoners and children, send people to be tortured and executed elsewhere, deprive people of legal representation and a fair trial, oppress homosexuals, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

 

[catsmate]

Which is bound by ECHR , something which is not affected by brexit ? Or am I wrong ?

You are quite correct; the ECHR is not reliant on the EU.

 

[Klimax]

Do you not think that us being very aware of that was one of the drivers behind the Brexit vote?

You mean: you wanted to demonstrate how big idiots "euroskeptics" are, how little planning they ever do and how little idea they have altogether? Congratulation, you have succeeded spectacularly. Václav Klaus is nowhere to be found, Konvička disappeared from face of the Earth, also Mach is reported to be missing and all those parties against EU are just arguing about anti-smoking law...

Also if your intention was to demonstrate what happens when country tries some idiotic ideas like talking about A50 exit, thanks. We are writing brand new books for all the macroeconomics classes.

BTW: Your funny group of jokers have quite a choice: Full exit and trying to trade outside of EU. Not much of market there...
Or try to stay with Market. No change at all then as all "edicts" will apply to you, all that free movement will stay and you'll pay lot. With no grants for your development...

I guess being forgotten hole is a choice....