Brexit: the referendum

angrysoba said:
Didn't Gove talk up the idea of some informal negotiations with the EU prior to going nuclear with art50?

Well European leaders have rejected that idea, so that's that for the silly little spod.

EU leaders reject informal talks with UK
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36644211
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I think this is the biggest game of hot potato in history, because nobody wants to be that guy who presses the button and whoever wins in September (May or Johnson) will have to press it.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Maybe they can send Roy Hodgson to negotiate Brexit as he's now unemployed and hugely experienced in getting England out of Europe.
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I think when the England squad heard the UK had voted to leave Europe they thought they had to obey the will of the people.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
I think this is the biggest game of hot potato in history, because nobody wants to be that guy who presses the button and whoever wins in September (May or Johnson) will have to press it.
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The only thing I can think of right now is that some hitherto unknown backbench firebrand could emerge with less to lose and more to potentially gain by being ideologically anti-EU and causing a noisy walkout instead of the dithering uncertainty that Gove and Johnson represent. The EU now just want to get on with it and stop the damage that the uncertainty causes.

It's funny that having earned a hard-won reputation for being an awkward and reluctant member of the EU, the U.K. is now being awkward and reluctant to leave.
 
I expect the terms "Good Riddence" and "Perfidious Albion" are being heard a lot in Europe outside the EU this week.
 
Damn, I regret being unable to visit the UK again this summer,with the pound so weak against the dollar.
 
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Archie Gemmill Goal said:
It seems pretty obvious that you've given it no thought anyway.
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No, it's precisely because I can give it thought on a real economic basis that I can sweep the idea under the mat instantly.

Declaring an immediate exit from the UK would cut Scotland's ongoing funding off instantly. They wouldn't be able to pay their bills. Hospitals couldn't buy supplies, there would be an immediate food shortage, government wages couldn't be paid, not to mention what currency would be used, and I can't even believe I'm being asked as to whether I'd given the idea any thought.

An instant's thinking would show the idea to be so ludicrous it isn't worth discussing.

Which is I said it wasn't worth considering.
 
The Atheist said:
No, it's precisely because I can give it thought on a real economic basis that I can sweep the idea under the mat instantly.

Declaring an immediate exit from the UK would cut Scotland's ongoing funding off instantly. They wouldn't be able to pay their bills. Hospitals couldn't buy supplies, there would be an immediate food shortage, government wages couldn't be paid, not to mention what currency would be used, and I can't even believe I'm being asked as to whether I'd given the idea any thought.

An instant's thinking would show the idea to be so ludicrous it isn't worth discussing.

Which is I said it wasn't worth considering.
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Maybe they could prolong the negotiations.
 
angrysoba said:
.......It's funny that having earned a hard-won reputation for being an awkward and reluctant member of the EU, the U.K. is now being awkward and reluctant to leave.
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Result Friday. Monday morning first thing the divorce-negotiating committee is set up and told to get to work. Tuesday morning the PM heads out to Brussels to tell the EU heads of government we're leaving, and that his successor, who will handle the exit, will be in place by Sept 2nd. How much less awkward could it be? I'll accept a charge of reluctant against the current leadership, because they, after all, were the leaders of the Remain campaign, and you wouldn't expect a whole heap of enthusiasm from them.
 
Francesca R said:
........I agree a referendum should not have happened for Brexit, rather, a political party should have got elected offering it......
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There is something in this.

A huge section of the British public have never had in 30 or more years any political party represent their views on this matter. This led to a huge build up of resentment, and apathy towards politics, and arguably an exaggerated result when finally the body-politic was forced into asking the public's opinion. Exaggerated in comparison with what would have been the support for Brexit if there had been an outlet for that frustration via the manifesto of a serious political party over decades, I mean.
 
MikeG said:
There is something in this.

A huge section of the British public have never had in 30 or more years any political party represent their views on this matter. This led to a huge build up of resentment, and apathy towards politics, and arguably an exaggerated result when finally the body-politic was forced into asking the public's opinion. Exaggerated in comparison with what would have been the support for Brexit if there had been an outlet for that frustration via the manifesto of a serious political party over decades, I mean.
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I must be misunderstanding. Are you saying there has been no UK Independence Party for them to vote for? I agree that there should be frustration that the (IIRC) 3 million votes UKIP got at the last election got so few seats but really?
The only way I can reconcile the above with the Brexit results is that it was a protest vote on austerity, low taxes for the rich and a whole raft of other issues on which Labour failed to distance themselves from Conservative. Or just a protest vote against the status quo.
 
MikeG said:
There is something in this.

A huge section of the British public have never had in 30 or more years any political party represent their views on this matter. This led to a huge build up of resentment, and apathy towards politics, and arguably an exaggerated result when finally the body-politic was forced into asking the public's opinion. Exaggerated in comparison with what would have been the support for Brexit if there had been an outlet for that frustration via the manifesto of a serious political party over decades, I mean.
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People also got mixed messages from the Tories, so voting for them due to a potential or perceived anti-EU position has gone unrewarded over the last 10 years.

Wudang said:
I must be misunderstanding. Are you saying there has been no UK Independence Party for them to vote for? I agree that there should be frustration that the (IIRC) 3 million votes UKIP got at the last election got so few seats but really?
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Until recently, UKIP wasn't getting the votes at General Elections which would make it seem like a serious party. Certainly not until after the Tories made a manifesto commitment to the referendum.
 
MikeG said:
There is something in this.

A huge section of the British public have never had in 30 or more years any political party represent their views on this matter. This led to a huge build up of resentment, and apathy towards politics, and arguably an exaggerated result when finally the body-politic was forced into asking the public's opinion. Exaggerated in comparison with what would have been the support for Brexit if there had been an outlet for that frustration via the manifesto of a serious political party over decades, I mean.
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Actually I was thinking more on the part of people like Johnson and Gove. They have both publicly said they think there is no need to rush for the door and/or that there should be some informal negotiations. These suggestions seem to have been rebuffed by a number of European politicians who want the UK to hurry out the door.

As it happens, and against my general prejudice against him, I have been fairly impressed with David Cameron who seems to have retained his composure and convincingly stated that his government had enough contingency plans to shore up business and prevent a worse financial disaster (i.e worse than what has happened to the currency devaluation and credit ratings) and prepared the grounds for negotiations with the EU leaders. Now it is up to someone else to step up and take over and that's where I detect some reluctance.

Again I'll make a prediction that somebody relatively unknown may decide to take the Farage role in the Tory Party as they will have less to lose than a Johnson or a Gove and everything to gain.
 
uke2se said:
I really can't. I believe it's every voter's responsibility to make an informed decision. Sometimes, protest voting could be argued to be an informed decision. Not this time.
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In theory I'd agree with you but it has to be seen in the context of a political system which favours the establishment to an enormous degree. In my constituency as an example it is almost a century since the one time that it ever returned a non-Conservative MP. I've turned out to vote but not being a Conservative supporter it does feel pointless at times (risking it becoming a self fulfilling prophecy). The lack of political distinction between the three main parties, including the Con/Lib Coalition and the PLP's response to the membership voting for a leader to move the party away from the other two has reinforced the idea that whoever you vote for the plan will continue uninterrupted. Finally of course there is a history of Euro referendums in other countries being rerun when they delivered the 'wrong' result.

This vote could financially ruin my wife and I. I think it was the wrong decision and made for the stupidest of reasons, everyone I've spoken to who voted leave has given reasons that come down to the British government not Europe but I can see why it happened and why some people may have taken it as no more than an opportunity to give the political class symbolic kick and not a potentially game changing decision.

There is a lot of blame to go around and it stretches back years.
 
Wudang said:
I must be misunderstanding. Are you saying there has been no UK Independence Party for them to vote for?........
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Sorry, I should have said "mainstream" or "electable" or "non-fringe" or somesuch.
 
The Atheist said:
No, it's precisely because I can give it thought on a real economic basis that I can sweep the idea under the mat instantly.

Declaring an immediate exit from the UK would cut Scotland's ongoing funding off instantly. They wouldn't be able to pay their bills. Hospitals couldn't buy supplies, there would be an immediate food shortage, government wages couldn't be paid, not to mention what currency would be used, and I can't even believe I'm being asked as to whether I'd given the idea any thought.

An instant's thinking would show the idea to be so ludicrous it isn't worth discussing.

Which is I said it wasn't worth considering.
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If you've given it thought then you perhaps should read some more before thinking about it because your fantasies are way off the mark of what would actually happen.
 
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