Brexit: Now What? Part III

[ceptimus]

It's still true. But the EU may be prepared to undergo pain just to punish us.

More likely, because of their hopeless blundering bureaucracy, they will fail to get any sort of deal in place within the allotted time. They're desperate for us to remain and keep paying them, so they will string out the process interminably if they're allowed to.

 

[abaddon]

It's still true. But the EU may be prepared to undergo pain just to punish us.

More likely, because of their hopeless blundering bureaucracy, they will fail to get any sort of deal in place within the allotted time. They're desperate for us to remain and keep paying them, so they will string out the process interminably if they're allowed to.

ROFL. Negotiations have not even started and already you are blaming the EU for the results of your crappy decision. That tells me two things.

1. It doesn't matter what happens, you will blame the EU

And

2. You actually realise that Brexit will mess up the UK.

Remember to say sayonara AIG.

 

[imodium]

The main components of "Project Fear" as it was dubbed by the Brexit press consisted of the following major elements;

* The break-up of the UK
* A punishment budget of tax rises to cover holes in finances
* NHS in crisis as funds are withdrawn and foreign doctors leave
* The EU refusing to offer us a trade deal
* Increased likelihood of conflict

So, where are we now? Well Scotland wants to go walkies, and the Northern Irish Unionist parties have lost their majority in Stormont. We've had a budget of tax rises. The NHS is in crisis. There is no imminent prospect of an EU trade deal. But we aren't at war (yet).

 

[ceptimus]

When has the EU ever completed any treaty on time? They delight in brinksmanship up to and usually well past any deadlines. All night sittings at summits are the norm with each of the 27 negotiators pushing doggedly for some last minute concession.

Read back through these threads and you'll see my position has remained consistent - attempting to negotiate with these twerps is a waste of time - walking away is the sane thing to do. Let them contemplate the cliff edge they wish to drive us all over. They can get back to us when they have a plan. Knowing the EU this will only happen AFTER the cliff has been crashed over.

 

[The Don]

When has the EU ever completed any treaty on time? They delight in brinksmanship up to and usually well past any deadlines. All night sittings at summits are the norm with each of the 27 negotiators pushing doggedly for some last minute concession.

Read back through these threads and you'll see my position has remained consistent - attempting to negotiate with these twerps is a waste of time - walking away is the sane thing to do. Let them contemplate the cliff edge they wish to drive us all over. They can get back to us when they have a plan. Knowing the EU this will only happen AFTER the cliff has been crashed over.

Once again the Brexiteers expect everyone else to do the "hard yards" for them. It's up to the Remainers, the EU, the WTO to come up with a plan to attempt to mitigate the actions of the Brexiteers . Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

I truly hope that we don't head off the cliff (not least because I will likely go out of business and have to make good people redundant) but if we do, I think that you're overestimating the UK's importance as a trading partner to the other members of the EU vs. the EU's importance to the UK.

 

[abaddon]

When has the EU ever completed any treaty on time? They delight in brinksmanship up to and usually well past any deadlines. All night sittings at summits are the norm with each of the 27 negotiators pushing doggedly for some last minute concession.

Read back through these threads and you'll see my position has remained consistent - attempting to negotiate with these twerps is a waste of time - walking away is the sane thing to do. Let them contemplate the cliff edge they wish to drive us all over. They can get back to us when they have a plan. Knowing the EU this will only happen AFTER the cliff has been crashed over.

You are suggesting that the UK intentionally walk off the cliff edge and then blame the EU for it.

 

[The Don]

You are suggesting that the UK intentionally walk off the cliff edge and then blame the EU for it.

Yes, the UK is child demanding cake and sweeties for dinner. The EU is the adult suggesting that we should eat our balanced nutritious dinner first and then maybe have one or the other for dessert.

I believe ceptimus is suggesting that we sweep all the food off the table in a fit of pique, run off to our room without eating and then blame the EU for us being hungry.

Of course until he was heavily criticised for it yesterday, David Davis and his collection of incompetents hadn't even thought about developing a "no deal" contingency plan.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

Let them contemplate the cliff edge they wish to drive us all over.

Who is driving this bus again? Who was it that started the whole thing?

Seriously, just give us everything we want or we will take our ball and go home isn't a very grown up threat at the best of times but it makes you look a bit daft when it isn't even your ball.

 

[uke2se]

attempting to negotiate with these twerps is a waste of time

Then don't. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

 

[dudalb]

It's still true. But the EU may be prepared to undergo pain just to punish us.

More likely, because of their hopeless blundering bureaucracy, they will fail to get any sort of deal in place within the allotted time. They're desperate for us to remain and keep paying them, so they will string out the process interminably if they're allowed to.

You know, really you have given us nothing but "THE EU IS EVIL!" to go on.

 

[Garrison]

You know, really you have given us nothing but "THE EU IS EVIL!" to go on.

Well given the way May and co. have reneged on every promise made about the 'benefits' of leaving the EU it's the only rationale left. No extra money, no superior trade deals, no end to EU immigration, there's nothing else left.

 

[MCel58]

Ceptimus for the last time
Size of UK civil service 418343 - No of Countries to develop Policy and services for =1
Size of EU civil service 32546 - No of Countries to develop Policy and services for = 28
If anyone has a large blundering bureaucracy it's the UK

Plus we are the country that has decided to leave but still want support from the rest in terms of free trade, security, solidarity in defence, no border in Ireland, access to research, access to financial passporting for the city and the rights of UK citizens in the EU. It is up to us to say what we want and to negotiate the break of our existing contracts with them and then for negotiations to begin. If we are not prepared to compromise on anything then we should have no expectations, meet our contractual obligations and withdraw and be prepared to explain to citizens of the UK why we were unprepared. This negotiations starts with not what will the EU give us but what does the UK want to achieve and as yet that is still very unclear despite our very large civil service. Anyone who has ever negotiated a trade deal or with a trade union knows this.

 

[The Don]

I was in the pub last night with most of Wyld Bird Seed after our Tuesday night rehearsal. AFAIK all of us voted remain but two were reluctant remainers. We had a "heated" discussion about Brexit and the implications thereof. The highlights I took away were:

• The relucatant Remainers are very confident about the UK getting a good deal with the EU on the grounds that "they need us more than we need them"
• They both think that "something needs to be done about immigration". Their evidence was, in essence, tabloid headlines "Gangs of Romanians and Albanians", "No go areas" in Birmingham, "Immigrants getting immediate access to all kinds of benefits". It's difficult to argue against "evidence" like that
• Both accept that immigrants are vital to the UK economy - even unskilled ones - because lots of UK natives don't want to do, or lack the skills to do, a lot of jobs. Somehow this is the fault of the immigrants
• Immigrants are "changing the character of the UK" as if that's something that should be preserved, unchanging, in perpetuity

So as usual, a combination of baseless optimism (though I hope they are right) and latent (and not so latent) xenophobia "informed" by decades of right-wing scapegoating.

 

[McHrozni]

The relucatant Remainers are very confident about the UK getting a good deal with the EU on the grounds that "they need us more than we need them"

Yeah.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exporting-goods-from-the-eu-to-a-third-country-outside-the-eu

Sure.

McHrozni

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I was in the pub last night with most of Wyld Bird Seed after our Tuesday night rehearsal. AFAIK all of us voted remain but two were reluctant remainers. We had a "heated" discussion about Brexit and the implications thereof. The highlights I took away were:

• The relucatant Remainers are very confident about the UK getting a good deal with the EU on the grounds that "they need us more than we need them"
• They both think that "something needs to be done about immigration". Their evidence was, in essence, tabloid headlines "Gangs of Romanians and Albanians", "No go areas" in Birmingham, "Immigrants getting immediate access to all kinds of benefits". It's difficult to argue against "evidence" like that
• Both accept that immigrants are vital to the UK economy - even unskilled ones - because lots of UK natives don't want to do, or lack the skills to do, a lot of jobs. Somehow this is the fault of the immigrants
• Immigrants are "changing the character of the UK" as if that's something that should be preserved, unchanging, in perpetuity

So as usual, a combination of baseless optimism (though I hope they are right) and latent (and not so latent) xenophobia "informed" by decades of right-wing scapegoating.

Sounds about par for the course.

That thing about changing character or changing culture always winds me up. First of all nobody is able to define what it is in the first place and secondly changing is GOOD.

Bloody hell how many people spent last night eating a curry drinking imported foreign beer and watching European football between two teams full of guys from all over the world?

Should we go back to flat caps meat pies bitter and players called Nigel?

 

[catsmate]

That who Canada is right next door to seems to be ignored by the Commonwealth advocates.
But I keep on reading the country that will make out like a thief from Britix is Ireland.

We're cautiously optimistic about some profitable corpse picking.

 

[wobs]

Ceptimus for the last time
Size of UK civil service 418343 - No of Countries to develop Policy and services for =1
Size of EU civil service 32546 - No of Countries to develop Policy and services for = 28
If anyone has a large blundering bureaucracy it's the UK

If there is going to be one area of growth in the UK, its going to be the civil service.

Maybe Brexiters have aspirations to be like Switzerland in this regard?

 

[McHrozni]

It's official, UK has no assessment, let alone a plan, for a scenario where it crashes out with no deal.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-leave-no-deal-select-committee-a7630626.html

This is about 6 weeks after Theresa May confidently claimed UK is prepared to walk away with no deal rather than take a bad deal. In light of this I wonder if her government has the ability to tell a good deal from a bad one. Indeed, with the greatest constitutional upheaval in generations at hand, I wonder if UK has done any preparation whatsoever in the last eight months.

Bananas don't grow in UK, plus it's a kingdom and not a republic ... Sheep kingdom perhaps?

McHrozni

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

This one line seems to sum up the entire Brexit movement:

“You don’t need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment.”

 

[Tolls]

This bit pretty much sums the whole thing up, including the attitude of Brexiteers here:

And he appeared to downgrade the Government’s pledge that the UK will enjoy the “same economic benefits” outside the EU, telling the MPs: “I was expressing an ambition.”

Yes, that's it in a nutshell.

I expect he also wants a pony.