Brexit: Now What? Part III

[ceptimus]

The EU doesn't need any plans. They have a full set of regulations and directives detailing how to trade with countries that are not in the EU.

LOL. If you really believe that then why can't we just accept these comprehensive regulations and directives in early April 2017? The negotiations will be finished and Britain will be free of the EU.

 

[Aepervius]

I agree completely.

So far the EU has published no plan whatsoever.

They do not need to. Remember who is initiating what : UK initiating.

Britain, in contrast, has published a White Paper, its parliament has debated the issue ad nauseam and the Prime Minister has given a speech outlining what we want.

I think we have a different thought about proper plan.

I think Britain should refrain from revealing any more details of its plan until the EU side has done a similar job of describing its plan.

In other word : no proper plan published,a nd you take May and her group at a word she has a plan.

Of course, the EU is such a lumbering bureaucracy that it probably has no inkling of any plan so far - and it will most likely take it a few years to begin to develop one.

See this is post like this which makes me thing you have an utterly msiconception of what will happen. The EU *already* has some inkling. In fact they already are setting up a bills with items. Remember the 60 billion euro ? That alone shows somebody put thought into it. Furthermore it is not UK negocitating with EU, it is UK negociating with every single EU countries.

I am sure you will come up with an empty response like "yeah so we do hard brexit because there will be no negociation, too many people to negociate with blahlbah blah".

But that is not the point. The point is that probably every country at this point has their own plan and wait with a batted breath the UK make the first step. Remember UK is brexiting. it is not EU divorcing from UK.

 

[3point14]

The EU doesn't need any plans. They have a full set of regulations and directives detailing how to trade with countries that are not in the EU.

And they probably still have the negotiating teams that arranged them.

We, on the other hand have none.

 

[ceptimus]

See this is post like this which makes me thing you have an utterly msiconception of what will happen. The EU *already* has some inkling. In fact they already are setting up a bills with items. Remember the 60 billion euro ? That alone shows somebody put thought into it.

The same sort of thought that went into painting the £350 million per week on the side of the bus.

 

[Aepervius]

It's a much more detailed plan than any we've seen from the EU so far.

Because the EU does not HAVE to publish a plan. it has only to react to the one of the UK when it becomes official art 50 is invoked. And again the fact they are speaking of amount is a clear sign that somebody is already working behind the scene on what is affected, but you purposefully chose to ignore this.

Do you realize that you are putting the cart before the horse by asking the EU to show a plan ?

They have no reason to, neither it is their job before art 50.

 

[Aepervius]

IF we have signed up to these commitments then we may have to pay. The EU has yet to prove that we did sign up.

And of course any bill will be offset by what the EU have to pay us.

For example there are many more EU nationals in the UK than vice versa. If all these people are to remain in place after Brexit and continue to get free health care and such, then the EU will have to pay the UK to compensate for the imbalance.

Most probably NOT. Because there is no provision and no contract today to have citizen of other country have their healthcare paid by the other country. There is on the other hand provisions and contracts about EU administrative people retirement.

Do you even know how the EU works and particularly health care ?

 

[Tolls]

It's a much more detailed plan than any we've seen from the EU so far.

The EU don't have to sell their plan to the British public.
The government do.

Sadly, what we got was that nonsense instead...

 

[Craig B]

It's a much more detailed plan than any we've seen from the EU so far.

The rest of the EU had a referendum and decided that the UK should be required to leave? No? So what plan was it required to prepare? It's the person initiating an action who requires to make a plan. The rest of the EU is under no obligation except to react in the way it deems appropriate to whatever plans the UK government may come up with.

 

[ceptimus]

Because the EU does not HAVE to publish a plan.

They have no reason to, neither it is their job before art 50.

Neither does the UK. The government only did it to keep the whiners such as the SNP and LibDem MPs satisfied.

 

[Aepervius]

The same sort of thought that went into painting the £350 million per week on the side of the bus.

OK. I see that no reasonning will be OK for you. You have decided in advance that the EU is wrong no matter what, you don't have an inkling about existing contractual UK obligation but you already decided the nubmer is as crappy as the brexiter propaganda.

Whatever. I will let other judge the quality of your answer.

 

[3point14]

Do you realize that you are putting the cart before the horse by asking the EU to show a plan ?

Those who wish to leave the EU initially believed that those that wanted to remain would actual do their work for them.

When that fell down, apparently they now want the EU to do the work for them.

It's almost as if they're completely divorced from reality, entirely sucking up the easily identifiable ******** from an increasingly ineffective and agenda driven media owned by individuals of dubious morals.

I can understand the gullibility, if one doesn't know how to fact-check then buying the ******** in the first place is understandable. Now it has become abundantly apparent that leaving the EU is a financial disaster brought about by a concerted campaign of lies, the inability to admit error in the face of disaster is staggering.

 

[ceptimus]

The rest of the EU is under no obligation except to react in the way it deems appropriate to whatever plans the UK government may come up with.

I already agreed that the EU is about to enter into complex negotiations without preparing any plan. It's pathetic of course, but it's the sort of behaviour we've come to expect of the EU.

 

[jimbob]

Why do you dismiss what UK politicians say about the Brexit negotiations as nonsense but treat what EU politicians say about it as truth? They're all just playing their pre-negotiation opening gambits - what both sides are currently saying will eventually be shown to have been wrong.

UK politicians: "European politicians will do X." They have the motive to lie in this manner.
EU politicians: "We will do Y." They have no motive to lie in this manner.

Which side do you find more credible?

McHrozni

There is also the demonstrated level of competence and clarity displayed by the Government. I am still thinking that the three goons are being dishonest, but am starting to wonder whether stupidity is a more plausible explanation. (I do realise that the two are not mutually exclusive).

 

[Aepervius]

I already agreed that the EU is about to enter into complex negotiations without preparing any plan. It's pathetic of course, but it's the sort of behaviour we've come to expect of the EU.

I have to quote that for the posterity.

ETA: In case this is not clear, the EU has no duty to publish in advance a plan. YOU assumed there is none. As for the second sentences : typical of the UK yellow gutter newspaper reader : has no idea of what they are speaking about, but like to mouth off the EU without evidence.

 

[ceptimus]

OK. I see that no reasonning will be OK for you. You have decided in advance that the EU is wrong no matter what, you don't have an inkling about existing contractual UK obligation but you already decided the nubmer is as crappy as the brexiter propaganda.

Whatever. I will let other judge the quality of your answer.

My point went straight over your head. Never mind, I'll spell it out for you. The 60 billion euro figure is a gross figure - the same as the £350 million per week figure. It makes no account of the money that will flow in the opposite direction.

If we end up paying the EU 60 billion to leave, but they have to pay us 55 billion then what is the actual cost?

 

[Aepervius]

My point went straight over your head. Never mind, I'll spell it out for you. The 60 billion euro figure is a gross figure - the same as the £350 million per week figure. It makes no account of the money that will flow in the opposite direction.

If we end up paying the EU 60 billion to leave, but they have to pay us 55 billion then what is the actual cost?

No. 350 was utterly stupid tkaen out of thin air. YOU assume the 60 billion has the same quality of the inyard of the people of the brexit campaign delivered to you.

Again your assumption, baseless, as I am betting my last shirt you have no clue about the exct contractual obligation which were spoken off.

 

[Andy_Ross]

My point went straight over your head. Never mind, I'll spell it out for you. The 60 billion euro figure is a gross figure - the same as the £350 million per week figure. It makes no account of the money that will flow in the opposite direction.

If we end up paying the EU 60 billion to leave, but they have to pay us 55 billion then what is the actual cost?

What will they need to pay us.

 

[ceptimus]

What will they need to pay us.

I posted one example a few posts back. There is a huge imbalance in the numbers of EU nationals residing in Britain compared with the numbers of Brits living in the EU. If they are all to remain in place after Brexit (as everyone assumes) then the EU will have to compensate the UK for the costs of free medical care and so on.

There are many more things they'll have to pay us for. The UK negotiating team no doubt will have carefully prepared accounts ready to challenge the absurd €60 billion 'divorce bill' when the EU side tables it.

 

[Craig B]

LOL. If you really believe that then why can't we just accept these comprehensive regulations and directives in early April 2017? The negotiations will be finished and Britain will be free of the EU.

What's the problem then? If you want to be free on any terms, then just walk away from the unwanted attentions of Johnnie Foreigner. Go ahead. Tell May not to bother her head about the results and consequences of such an act.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

IF we have signed up to these commitments then we may have to pay. The EU has yet to prove that we did sign up.

And of course any bill will be offset by what the EU have to pay us.

For example there are many more EU nationals in the UK than vice versa. If all these people are to remain in place after Brexit and continue to get free health care and such, then the EU will have to pay the UK to compensate for the imbalance.

We signed up to fund projects. That's indisputable.

Why would the EU be footing a bill for healthcare etc?

I think you are just making things up now.