Brexit: Now What? Part II

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3point14 said:
Sum total of interest in my office in the largest political process in decades is me.
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So many are so weary of the whole damn thing and of course we're just in the "Phoney War" at the moment so nothing has really happened.

When the impact of Brexit starts to be felt, people will squeal like stuck pigs that they weren't informed and/or consulted but of course by they it'll be too lake.
 
Mid said:
There was when I lived in Dundee as well. Unfortunately the choice in Tooting is more limited
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Well my MP voted against A50. So now I have to think which I prefer more voting against the Brexiting UKIP/Labour/Tory coalition or pretending she doesn't have Labour beside her name and voting for the MP. Oh well plenty of time till 2020 to make up my mind
 
ceptimus said:
You must find it galling that opinion is relentlessly moving towards my position and away from yours. Try to relax and be positive. You'll eventually realize how wrong you've been up till now.
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I have not noted any opinion shift. On R4 yesterday an economist confirmed that you still need to hunt far and wide to find one of their profession suggesting that brexit would be good for the country.

A recent poll shows that most people now want to stay in the EU.
 
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The Don said:
When the impact of Brexit starts to be felt, people will squeal like stuck pigs that they weren't informed and/or consulted but of course by they it'll be too lake.
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This is the least of your concerns. The fact Labour acted as cheerleaders for Tories at the critical moment doesn't give them any leverage in the medium or even long term. They voted for it, therefore they share the responsibility for it too.

McHrozni
 
ceptimus said:
You must find it galling that opinion is relentlessly moving towards my position and away from yours. Try to relax and be positive. You'll eventually realize how wrong you've been up till now.
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I hope you have taken sufficient precautions to ensure that you can survive the post-Brexit turmoil. I hope that your job/income is sufficiently secure to survive the shock to the UK economy that's coming and the huge cuts in public spending that will result and that it will keep pace with the inflation that's likely to result.

I have well diversified assets running comfortably into seven figures and no debt at all. Despite that there's a significant chance that Brexit will be financially crippling and there is a non-zero chance that it'll wipe me out. I feel sorry for the 98%-99% who are less well off than I and are less likely to be insulated from the effects of Brexit. :(
 
Architect said:
Iain MacWhirter has done an excellent piece in today's Herald which I would commend to you all:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...50_debate_was_Little_England___s_finest_hour/
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Very interesting article, though I'm very biased because his views echo my own.

By submitting to the "overwhelming" will of 52% of people (many of whom were not clear that they were voting for Hard Brexit), cowardly MPs have sowed the seeds for the diminution of the UK, economically, diplomatically and politically.

Instead of being a leading power in Europe, we will be a U.S. vassal, subject to the whims (and largesse) of President Trump. :(
 
The Don said:
Very interesting article, though I'm very biased because his views echo my own.

By submitting to the "overwhelming" will of 52% of people (many of whom were not clear that they were voting for Hard Brexit), cowardly MPs have sowed the seeds for the diminution of the UK, economically, diplomatically and politically.

Instead of being a leading power in Europe, we will be a U.S. vassal, subject to the whims (and largesse) of President Trump. :(
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It truly was a WFT moment.

Invoking Agincourt and Waterloo isn't the most appropriate though. I'd linken it the the battle of Gazala. Here's why:

British commanders were strangely lethargic, sending their armor in small, uncoordinated packets against the concentrated German defenders. Poor tactics compounded the problem; British tanks attacked without infantry or artillery support that would have neutralized the devastating lines of German anti-tank guns.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
It truly was a WFT moment.

Invoking Agincourt and Waterloo isn't the most appropriate though. I'd linken it the the battle of Gazala. Here's why:

British commanders were strangely lethargic, sending their armor in small, uncoordinated packets against the concentrated German defenders. Poor tactics compounded the problem; British tanks attacked without infantry or artillery support that would have neutralized the devastating lines of German anti-tank guns.

McHrozni
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Given that we (i.e. the Scots) fought for the French in the 100 Years War, it strikes me that Agincourt possibly isn't the most appropriate fighting spirit to evoke.

I would mention the Battle of Baugé, but for some strange reason the English don't focus on that one. A bit like the way we Scots like to gloss over Flodden Field in lieu of Bannockburn.
 
Architect said:
Given that we (i.e. the Scots) fought for the French in the 100 Years War, it strikes me that Agincourt possibly isn't the most appropriate fighting spirit to evoke.
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Yeah, true. Boris Johnson opines* this will happen again and English peasants will devastate nominally far stronger European opponents. Someone should explain to him that while rain and mud do hinder men in heavy metal armor, they are far less of a concern when discussing trade deals. Plus he really can't count on weather to be favorable to him for 18 months straight.

* It would be more common to use verb "to think", but this is inappropriate when discussing the activities of Boris Johnson.

McHrozni
 
McHrozni said:
Yeah, true. Boris Johnson opines* this will happen again and English peasants will devastate nominally far stronger European opponents. Someone should explain to him that while rain and mud do hinder men in heavy metal armor, they are far less of a concern when discussing trade deals. Plus he really can't count on weather to be favorable to him for 18 months straight.

* It would be more common to use verb "to think", but this is inappropriate when discussing the activities of Boris Johnson.

McHrozni
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In this case IMO what Boris thinks and what he says are quite different.

For all of his anti-EU rhetoric over the years, Boris' decision to support Leave had less to do with conviction and more to do with political opportunism. His insistence during the referendum campaign that the UK could remain in the EEA while being out of the EU is an indication that he understands the economic necessity of the EEA for the good of the UK economy.

OTOH he's obliged to be publicly bullish about the UK's prospects post-Brexit and talk up the UK's position.

My speculative opinion (and it is nothing more than speculation) is that Boris is personally unfussed by Brexit - he's wealthy and privileged enough to be insulated from its effects - but that he's wary about the UK's position post Hard Brexit, especially in view of the UK's lack of talent around the table.
 
What will happen when all those who own the ludicrously expensive properties in the centre of London start selling?

the one common thread of all UK governments for the last 40 years is that house prices MUST NOT fall.

What happens if/when they do?
 
Agincourt is really a bad choice. It was England's last squawk before the French resurgence. An illusory high point that couldn't be retained.
 
The Don said:
In this case IMO what Boris thinks and what he says are quite different.

For all of his anti-EU rhetoric over the years, Boris' decision to support Leave had less to do with conviction and more to do with political opportunism. His insistence during the referendum campaign that the UK could remain in the EEA while being out of the EU is an indication that he understands the economic necessity of the EEA for the good of the UK economy.
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Possibly, but there is another possibility. Insisting they UK will stay in EEA insulated the campaign against discussing the painful economic downsides of Brexit to some extent and allowed the Remain side to be fraudulently painted as the Fear campaign.

My speculative opinion (and it is nothing more than speculation) is that Boris is personally unfussed by Brexit - he's wealthy and privileged enough to be insulated from its effects - but that he's wary about the UK's position post Hard Brexit, especially in view of the UK's lack of talent around the table.
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I don't know, if he's concerned about UK's lack of talent around the table he sure isn't showing it. He keeps spouting nonsense about how UK will sign a large number of trade deals around the world. It could just be an empty promise to kill the debate, but it doesn't seem like something a person concerned about a lack of talent would say.

McHrozni
 
Tolls said:
Agincourt is really a bad choice. It was England's last squawk before the French resurgence. An illusory high point that couldn't be retained.
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Or it's the perfect choice for that very reason.

Another reason why Agincourt is inappropriate - it came at a time when England was all for an ever closer union with the continent, specifically France.

McHrozni
 
3point14 said:
What will happen when all those who own the ludicrously expensive properties in the centre of London start selling?

the one common thread of all UK governments for the last 40 years is that house prices MUST NOT fall.

What happens if/when they do?
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I guess more government action to support house prices using the bottomless pit of money that suddenly appeared after the Brexit vote.

It's alarming that many of the complaints that may have influenced public opinion pro-Brexit regarding stress on schools, the NHS and local services were a direct result of government austerity and not immigration but that, for the right cause (such as bribing companies to stay) austerity is conveniently forgotten and the deficit and debt continue to balloon.

That said, money is still tight for "unimportant" things like child protection services, mental health provision and care for the elderly. It's good to see that we have our priorities straight :rolleyes:
 
Architect said:
Given that we (i.e. the Scots) fought for the French in the 100 Years War, it strikes me that Agincourt possibly isn't the most appropriate fighting spirit to evoke.

I would mention the Battle of Baugé, but for some strange reason the English don't focus on that one. A bit like the way we Scots like to gloss over Flodden Field in lieu of Bannockburn.
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That struck me at once. Agincourt is very silly, and of course The Battle of BaugéWP is unknown to the readers of 1066 And All That. They should have cited the "Second Agincourt" at the Battle of VerneuilWP to illustrate the dangers encountered by Scots in Europe.
 
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McHrozni said:
I don't know, if he's concerned about UK's lack of talent around the table he sure isn't showing it. He keeps spouting nonsense about how UK will sign a large number of trade deals around the world. It could just be an empty promise to kill the debate, but it doesn't seem like something a person concerned about a lack of talent would say.

McHrozni
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I don't think Boris is stupid enough to think that Davis and Fox are anything other than a pair of bumbling idiots - but we've disagreed in the past on the subject of Boris' intelligence.

That said, there's a point where walking, quacking and looking like a duck makes something functionally indistinguishable from a duck in some circumstances - maybe Boris has reached that stage with regard to his idiotic pronouncements. :o
 
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