Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 6. Pick up sticks...

[Tolls]

At the very least it is an example of how not to do it, and we would hope that something has been learnt from this, but I doubt it will be. From what I understand, the Swiss are happy enough with their plebiscite democracy.

The Swiss have had plenty of practice, and have probably encountered enough of the pitfalls to know that using a referendum on topic X to protest something else entirely is probably not the best idea.

The people framing the plebiscites there probably also have a better grasp of how to structure these things, such they they don't have quite so vague an outcome as Brexit.

I expect they still have the occasional issue, after all it's still people, but I doubt they've done anything quite as spectactularly daft as this in a while.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Theresa May and her PR team have visited an orphanage in Brussels.

“It was terrible seeing their faces, devoid of hope, not a leg to stand on and with no future...”

- Karl, age 8.

 

[3point14]

Theresa May and her PR team have visited an orphanage in Brussels.

“It was terrible seeing their faces, devoid of hope, not a leg to stand on and with no future...”

- Karl, age 8.

Stealing that.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Theresa May and her PR team have visited an orphanage in Brussels.

“It was terrible seeing their faces, devoid of hope, not a leg to stand on and with no future...”

- Karl, age 8.

Nominated, I genuinely laughed out loud.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Which is exactly why, if she kicks the can long enough they will have to either vote for this deal or vote to revoke Article 50.

So what exactly are they supposed to negotiate differently from this deal, and make sure it is something that could actually be attained.

THe problem with the original brexit vote is that voting for brexit didn't mean anything concrete about what people actually wanted and certainly had no relation to what could actually be achieved.

I really don't think there are options other than Mays deal, no brexit or no deal.

Yes you might be able to change Mays deal a bit but how much really could be done?

 

[ponderingturtle]

At the very least it is an example of how not to do it, and we would hope that something has been learnt from this, but I doubt it will be. From what I understand, the Swiss are happy enough with their plebiscite democracy.

The problems come from the fact that the PM (Cameron) thought the result was not in doubt, so the government had no idea what to do if the people voted the wrong way.

As they did, the Brexiters of course want the vote to stand, while the Remainers now want a new referendum.

Moreover, there is a conflict between the referendum result and the opinion of the elected representatives, the majority of the latter being opposed to Brexit.

And of course the whole leave thing being a vague an contradictory set of promises and not a definitieve practical plan.

 

[Worm]

I'm wondering how May is going to square her constant repetition over the last few weeks of 'this is the only deal, and the best deal for Britain' with whatever she can come with from her slightly panicky revisit to the EU. She seems to have somewhat painted herself into a corner.

If she comes up with a 'better' deal - then why did she say the other one was 'best'?
If she comes up with anything else, then it is - by definition - worse. So even less acceptable?

 

[Information Analyst]

Patel is of Indian heritage. So its bad enough she doesn't seem to know any Irish history, she's clearly never heard of the Bengal Famine either.

Gujarat via Uganda. To be fair, she's pretty clueless about a whole host of things.

 

[Information Analyst]

I suspect at many Irish bars in the US "Revenge for Skibberean" will be sung tonight...

Presumably by people who have never come within a thousand miles of Skibereen....

 

[Vixen]

My team Queens Park Rangers have called off the game against Middlesborough on Saturday in case they are defeated.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

I'm wondering how May is going to square her constant repetition over the last few weeks of 'this is the only deal, and the best deal for Britain' with whatever she can come with from her slightly panicky revisit to the EU. She seems to have somewhat painted herself into a corner.

If she comes up with a 'better' deal - then why did she say the other one was 'best'?
If she comes up with anything else, then it is - by definition - worse. So even less acceptable?

And the EU have been clear that the deal isn't changing so she will probably come back with 'assurances' from the EU that the backstop is not intended to be permanent.

 

[angrysoba]

Theresa May and her PR team have visited an orphanage in Brussels.

“It was terrible seeing their faces, devoid of hope, not a leg to stand on and with no future...”

- Karl, age 8.

Stealing that.

Nominated, I genuinely laughed out loud.

To be fair, it has been stolen countless times already from the football World Cup to the rugby World Cup and various other events.

 

[Belgian thought]

My team Queens Park Rangers have called off the game against Middlesborough on Saturday in case they are defeated.

But that's understandable.

 

[angrysoba]

And of course the whole leave thing being a vague an contradictory set of promises and not a definitieve practical plan.

Yes, and that was all bound up in the idea that the result was a foregone conclusion. Of course, other parliamentarians deserve a fair share of blame for having voted for the bill in the first place.

The Swiss have had plenty of practice, and have probably encountered enough of the pitfalls to know that using a referendum on topic X to protest something else entirely is probably not the best idea.

The people framing the plebiscites there probably also have a better grasp of how to structure these things, such they they don't have quite so vague an outcome as Brexit.

I expect they still have the occasional issue, after all it's still people, but I doubt they've done anything quite as spectactularly daft as this in a while.

Yes, and my point was it is not so much plebiscite democracy that is the problem as how it is implemented.

 

[Wudang]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-46...s-stuck-in-car-ahead-of-angela-merkel-meeting

Theresa May got stuck in her car after she arrived to meet German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Figure out how to leave the EU? She can't even figure out how to leave a car.


eta: Obviously I wasn't the only one this occurred to. More here

 

[Information Analyst]

It's like a Monty Python skit....

Yes, one of the unfunny and dated ones.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

To be fair, it has been stolen countless times already from the football World Cup to the rugby World Cup and various other events.

Sometimes it's not the joke, it's the timing.

 

[Belz...]

It was already a legal requirement that companies list their ingredients.

I, like most of the small vaping guys *did * get my liquids tested.

The vaping industry circa 2016 *wanted* there to be testing and standards.

Is that really the root cause of wanting the UK to leave the EU? Because of a personal gripe about a single type of product? Sounds petty. Now, if you want to talk about a democratic deficit of the EU or some other concern with the union itself, fine. But vaping? Really?

As for smoking in Europe, Canada's reduced smoking quite a bit over the years mostly through changing social attitudes.

I voted for Brexit as a protest vote.

Congratulations. You helped screw over millions of people on a whim.

I do think the EU is a bad thing. I think the fundamentals of the EU are great, but is becoming an over complicated cumbersome bureaucracy and is getting more so over time.

See, now you're talking. Personally I think the EU should be a sort of confederation or just a strong trade agreement. Having an actual parliament, especially one back-assward like the EU's, is a bad idea. Trying to make a country out of Europe is a worse one.

 

[Amazer]

See, now you're talking. Personally I think the EU should be a sort of confederation or just a strong trade agreement. Having an actual parliament, especially one back-assward like the EU's, is a bad idea. Trying to make a country out of Europe is a worse one.

I personally think that making a country out of the EU isn't a bad idea in the long run... but as things stand the EU isn't ready for that yet. The EU parliament is a reflection of that state of unreadiness. And untill the member states are ready to cede sovereignity to Brussels, it's the best we can do for now.

Further, as the past couple of years have shown, the world is a dangerous place. Russia and China are both flexing their muscles and seeing how far they can push the enveloppe. The USA has shown itself to be an unreliable partner. As a result I firmly believe that a more integrated EU who can speak and act with a single voice will be better for everyone.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Stealing that.

Why not? He did.

When I first saw that joke, it was about the England football team visiting a South African orphanage during the 2010 World Cup.