Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

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GlennB said:
That's over and done with. Anything bad that does happen is a result of the vote and the incompetence of the government in implementing it. And even if crypto-remainers within government are influencing the process then they're steering it towards a hard, no-deal Brexit, whether they intend to or not.

Your position makes zero sense. 'Project Fear' isn't causing and won't cause the negative outcomes. Blaming it all on Project Fear is your way of escaping (your very small part of) the responsibility.
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The main lesson to learn from Project Fear is not to trust the current predictions from Project Fear Part II.
 
The Shank said:
Remainers are still so upset about losing a referendum.
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I thought that remain voters were spoiling the win of leave voters :D

Or is it just a case of leave voters not getting the prize that they thought they had voted for.
 
ceptimus said:
The main lesson to learn from Project Fear is not to trust the current predictions from Project Fear Part II.
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OK, but the decline if EU NHS staff is not a prediction. The drop in the exchange rate is not a prediction. They're facts. If Brits end up in the 2-hour queue at EU airports that will also be a fact, as will shortages of EU medicines and difficulty in refuelling our nuclear power plants .

At what point will you stop blaming Project Fear for things that actually happen? Things that are out of the control of remainers? When will you accept responsibility for things that are a direct consequence of Brexit?

Never, it seems, according to your posts here. And your fallback position - already well-established - is that it will all be the fault of the EU in being so difficult. Pathetic. You voted for this oncoming *********.
 
GlennB said:
OK, but the decline if EU NHS staff is not a prediction. The drop in the exchange rate is not a prediction. They're facts. If Brits end up in the 2-hour queue at EU airports that will also be a fact, as will shortages of EU medicines and difficulty in refuelling our nuclear power plants .

At what point will you stop blaming Project Fear for things that actually happen? Things that are out of the control of remainers? When will you accept responsibility for things that are a direct consequence of Brexit?

Never, it seems, according to your posts here. And your fallback position - already well-established - is that it will all be the fault of the EU in being so difficult. Pathetic. You voted for this oncoming *********.
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This guy, that is.
 
The Shank said:
Remainers are still so upset about losing a referendum.
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Not really, the result is what it is.

I am more upset with the fact that no two "leavers" seem to agree on what leave should mean.

Leavers can't agree on a way forward and are dragging the country further into an uncertain future.

And the fact that they can't come to an agreement and negotiate a leaving deal with the EU is the fault of everyone else.
 
Mr Fied said:
Not really, the result is what it is.

I am more upset with the fact that no two "leavers" seem to agree on what leave should mean.

Leavers can't agree on a way forward and are dragging the country further into an uncertain future.

And the fact that they can't come to an agreement and negotiate a leaving deal with the EU is the fault of everyone else.
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I voted to 'Leave the European Union' as did everyone else who voted Leave.

There is no confusion about that.

The disagreement comes from the politicians.
 
The Shank said:
He also pointed out a few 'ifs'.
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Brexit is full of 'ifs'. And it always has been.

You never know, 'if' Ceptimus gets the no deal Brexit the He/she voted for? There may be more facts that he/she didn't vote for.

I'm sure it will be someone's fault :D
 
The Shank said:
I voted to 'Leave the European Union' as did everyone else who voted Leave.

There is no confusion about that.

The disagreement comes from the politicians.
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This is the problem, that was your idea of what it meant.
It was never laid down before the referendum exactly what leaving would mean.
Surely everyone can agree that the referendum shouldn't have been held until there was a definite plan proposed from both sides, that way the public would have been fully informed as to what they were voting for.

I'm not saying that this would have meant a change in the outcome, it could even have resulted in a higher leave vote.
 
The Shank said:
This guy, that is.
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Yeah "that guy" is a retired British ex-pat living in Greece. He has a lot of concerns about Brexit not least:

- Will he still be allowed to live in Greece
- What healthcare provisions will there be
- How will his pension be treated

The shambolic mess which is the UK government is doing nothing to assuage those concerns.

I too am concerned. I own a services business which currently helps to redress the UK balance of trade to the tune of hundreds of thousands of pounds a year. A Brexit which doesn't allow services to be sold on the current basis will likely have us going out of business entirely.
 
Mr Fied said:
This is the problem, that was your idea of what it meant.
It was never laid down before the referendum exactly what leaving would mean.
Surely everyone can agree that the referendum shouldn't have been held until there was a definite plan proposed from both sides, that way the public would have been fully informed as to what they were voting for.

I'm not saying that this would have meant a change in the outcome, it could even have resulted in a higher leave vote.
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The question on the voting form could not have been clearer

'Remain a member of the of the European Union' (and everything thst goes with it)

'Leave the European Union' (and everything that goes with it)

Your point that it may have resulted in higher Leave vote is a valid one.

Everyone knew exactly what it would mean to remain in the EU. We've been a member for long enough to understand that. If some leave voters didn't understand what leave would mean, then that makes it even worse for the remain camp.
 
The Shank said:
The question on the voting form could not have been clearer

'Remain a member of the of the European Union' (and everything thst goes with it)

'Leave the European Union' (and everything that goes with it)

Your point that it may have resulted in higher Leave vote is a valid one.

Everyone knew exactly what it would mean to remain in the EU. We've been a member for long enough to understand that. If some leave voters didn't understand what leave would mean, then that makes it even worse for the remain camp.
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Why do you think that the ones who voted to remain should be responsible for what the ones who voted to leave understood about the EU?
 
The Shank said:
The question on the voting form could not have been clearer

'Remain a member of the of the European Union' (and everything thst goes with it)

'Leave the European Union' (and everything that goes with it)
Your point that it may have resulted in higher Leave vote is a valid one.

Everyone knew exactly what it would mean to remain in the EU. We've been a member for long enough to understand that. If some leave voters didn't understand what leave would mean, then that makes it even worse for the remain camp.
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But the problem is, even during the leave campaign we were being told we could stay in the single market, we could stay in the customs union and we could have some sort of freedom of movement just with a few tweaks.
 
quadraginta said:
Why do you think that the ones who voted to remain should be responsible for what the ones who voted to leave understood about the EU?
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I don't.

My point is that if, as several posters here have pointed out, some leave voters didn't understand what leave meant but they STILL voted to leave rather than be in the EU.
 
The Shank said:
The question on the voting form could not have been clearer

'Remain a member of the of the European Union' (and everything thst goes with it)

'Leave the European Union' (and everything that goes with it)

Your point that it may have resulted in higher Leave vote is a valid one.

Everyone knew exactly what it would mean to remain in the EU. We've been a member for long enough to understand that. If some leave voters didn't understand what leave would mean, then that makes it even worse for the remain camp.
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My ballot paper didn't say (and everything that goes with it)

Vote leave did say....


Technological and economic forces are changing the world fast. EU institutions cannot cope. We have lost control of vital policies. This is damaging. We need a new relationship. What happens if we vote 'leave'?

We should negotiate a new UK-EU deal based on free trade and friendly cooperation. We end the supremacy of EU law. We regain control. We stop sending £350 million every week to Brussels and instead spend it on our priorities, like the NHS and science research.

We regain our seats on international institutions like the World Trade Organisation so we are a more influential force for free trade and international cooperation.

A vote to 'leave' and a better, friendlier relationship with the EU is much safer than giving Brussels more power and money every year.


Is this what you voted for?
 
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