Cont: Brexit: Now What? Part 5

[ceptimus]

If you're going to sue someone or some organization, you need to state the grounds. What contract has been broken? Also you need to consider what court will hear and rule over the process.

If the UK wants to challenge the EU in court, the best method would be to leave with no deal, refuse to pay the EU any more money, and then wait for the EU to sue.

 

[Pixel42]

You appear to think that what Trump said must have made some sort of sense, which assumes facts not in evidence.

 

[The Don]

If you're going to sue someone or some organization, you need to state the grounds. What contract has been broken? Also you need to consider what court will hear and rule over the process.

Exactly, which is why I raise those questions upthread. The thing is that Donald Trump is so ignorant, he wouldn't realise that it made no sense for the UK to sue the EU.

 

[The Don]

Looks like Theresa May's proposed deal is still falling apart:

Downing Street now says it will accept the four amendments - one of which could stop the UK from collecting tariffs for the EU, part of Theresa May's Chequers plan, unless the rest of the EU reciprocates.

Another change could make the EU's "backstop" on customs impossible by ruling out a border in the Irish Sea.

The other two amendments would ensure the UK was out of the EU's VAT regime and require new legislation if the government wanted to form a customs union with the EU.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44845933

Looks like a hard brexit all the way

 

[GlennB]

"Political journalist are trying to get their heads around the possibility of the government being defeated on amendments that it never wanted to accept in the first place."

I am, frankly, dizzy with the chaos, but I think these are the Rees-Moggian amendments that May accepted to avoid a calamitous vote tonight. Basically, she can't command a majority for any damn position whatsoever.

eta: "Struggling mightily to command a majority" would be more accurate.

We live in interesting times

 

[Andy_Ross]

Got tables a motion to bring forward Summer Recess to this Thursday.
Country in crisis over Brexit and May is going to shut down Parliament for the summer.

Craven.

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

"Political journalist are trying to get their heads around the possibility of the government being defeated on amendments that it never wanted to accept in the first place."

I am, frankly, dizzy with the chaos, but I think these are the Rees-Moggian amendments that May accepted to avoid a calamitous vote tonight. Basically, she can't command a majority for any damn position whatsoever.

eta: "Struggling mightily to command a majority" would be more accurate.

We live in interesting times

This is exactly what I was talking about the other day that certain posters dismissed. The givernment has tied itself in knots and now seems to have passed amendments that render it impossible to agree any deal.

The Chequers deal created a lot of babble about soft brexit but it was nothing of the sort
it was a fudge worded to try to encompass two mutually exclusive positions in the hope thatneither would see the impossibility of what was being proposed and the EU coukd be blamed.

make no mistake the only plan May has now is to be able to pin the blame for no deal abd economic chaos on EU intransigence rather than her incompetence

 

[ceptimus]

The amendments don't make much difference because the plan would be unacceptable to the EU even without them.

Leavers continue to hope for a no deal Brexit. If it happens now it will be chaotic and painful in the short term because neither side has made serious preparations for it.

Remainers best hope is now a defeat of government leading to a General Election with Labour making a U-turn to stand on an 'exit Brexit' platform.

Even if there were enthusiasm for a second referendum, there isn't enough time before Brexit day (255 days) to organise one. A general election can happen sooner.

I expect remainers will now begin to lobby for some kind of emergency extension of the Brexit deadline so they have more time to engineer their reversal of the nation's choice.

 

[Hubert Cumberdale]

Amazing that neither Cable nor Farron turned up for the vote.

Not sure what Cable's story is, but Farron was giving a lecture about the death of liberalism - aka he's still butthurt that he can't be a religious bigot and still lead the Lib Dems.

Its fairly extraordinary. The Lib Dems should just disband. How can they possibly hope to be taken seriously?

 

[Wildy]

The amendments don't make much difference because the plan would be unacceptable to the EU even without them.

At this point I'd say having something actually decided on to put on the table is far better than the current situation of nobody seeming to have a clue about what's going on/

Leavers continue to hope for a no deal Brexit. If it happens now it will be chaotic and painful in the short term because neither side has made serious preparations for it.

If that is indeed the case then they should be honest and just say that's what they want. They shouldn't be relying on "hope" to get the deal they want.

Remainers best hope is now a defeat of government leading to a General Election with Labour making a U-turn to stand on an 'exit Brexit' platform.

That would require Corbyn to either change his view on Brexit or the party removing him.

Even if there were enthusiasm for a second referendum, there isn't enough time before Brexit day (255 days) to organise one. A general election can happen sooner.

Why? Is there some rule that requires more than 255 days to have a referendum?

I expect remainers will now begin to lobby for some kind of emergency extension of the Brexit deadline so they have more time to engineer their reversal of the nation's choice.

Honestly, they might end up getting that from the EU even if they didn't ask for it.

 

[ceptimus]

Why? Is there some rule that requires more than 255 days to have a referendum?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44847404

 

[Archie Gemmill Goal]

The amendments don't make much difference

i disagree. A government willing to pass amendments to render its own plans illegal is quite something. Equally, changing the plan from 'unlikely to be acccepted' to 'impossible to be accepted' speaks volumes.

 

[ceptimus]

Meanwhile the EU have signed a new free trade agreement with Japan. No freedom of movement, no fishing rights, no common rule book, no supremacy of ECJ. Just trade.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44857317

 

[Andy_Ross]

Meanwhile the EU have signed a new free trade agreement with Japan. No freedom of movement, no fishing rights, no common rule book, no supremacy of ECJ. Just trade.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44857317

After how many years negotiations?

Do you think Japan will give us the same deal?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Frankie Boyle

"If you're hard right, and what you actually hope Brexit will deliver is enough nationalistic division for you to build an authoritarian society, it's actually all going brilliantly"

 

[ceptimus]

After how many years negotiations?

Do you think Japan will give us the same deal?

We are still in the EU at the moment, so we already have the deal.

Who knows what will happen regarding Brexit right now? I suppose it can't be decided whether Japan and the UK will agree the same or similar deal as the EU one until the final form of Brexit or non-Brexit is agreed and implemented.

Do you think the EU is prepared to offer the UK the same deal they have signed with Japan?

 

[Mr Fied]

Meanwhile the EU have signed a new free trade agreement with Japan. No freedom of movement, no fishing rights, no common rule book, no supremacy of ECJ. Just trade.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44857317

Are there hundreds of thousands of Japanese already living in the EU who are worried about their future?

How many EU citizens are living in Japan and not sure what will happen to them?

How many companies have locations and a workforce split between Japan and the EU which rely on easy movement of goods, services and personnel?

How many Japanese trawlers fish in EU waters?

Are Japan already committed to the ECJ?

Are Japan a part of the European Arrest Warrant?

Apart from that I can see how similar a Brexit deal would be.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Meanwhile the EU have signed a new free trade agreement with Japan. No freedom of movement, no fishing rights, no common rule book, no supremacy of ECJ. Just trade.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44857317

And what part of Japan is required to have open boarders with with the EU like Norther Ireland?

Hey Maybe Japan will take Norther Ireland off british hands, they are both island nations who drive on the wrong side of the road so that will make virtually no difference, and it will enable the GFA to live.

 

[Tolls]

Do you think the EU is prepared to offer the UK the same deal they have signed with Japan?

I'm sure they would.
However, as we keep pointing out, such a deal (as with the Canada one) would result in our economy collapsing, as we make more money out of services than anything else.

 

[Lothian]

We are still in the EU at the moment, so we already have the deal.

Who knows what will happen regarding Brexit right now? I suppose it can't be decided whether Japan and the UK will agree the same or similar deal as the EU one until the final form of Brexit or non-Brexit is agreed and implemented.

Do you think the EU is prepared to offer the UK the same deal they have signed with Japan?

Do you think the Uk would take it? or would we prefer a deal with our special friends in the USA? I don;t see how a free trade deal with both can work while maintaining an open Irish border. It will offer a backdoor route to avoid the punitive EU/US tariffs.