"Black face" skit on Australian variety show

[godofpie]

Seriously?

Is what GreyICE did actually all that impressive? His "cleverness" is nothing more than taking something completely out of context and exaggerating it into something it is not.The Hey Hey skit was not a group of people sitting there stereotyping black people, or pointing out faults and generalising, which is what GreyICE is doing. They did not call black people "rapist-loving" or "lazy" or "uneducated" or even put on an accent. I'm scoffing at this, while you guys are praising it.

I don't understand what's so impressive about something that just doesn't fit with fact.

Alex.

Bolding mine. You mean like the color of somebody's skin or what kind of hair they have? The whole point is you don't have to use words to belittle someone. GreyICE is just good at. A little too good at it if you ask me.....

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

But firstly stating that it's wrong and being shocked is one thing, but it is another to then state "that'd never happen in America". Indirectly the line of logic still follows that:

1. You are doing something offensive.
2. This offensive thing would never happen in my country.
3. My country is on a higher moral ground.

Unless you want to play with semantics, I still don't see how that syllogism, if you will, can be denied.

Again, these are different values, there is no need to start "speaking out" against it because Harry isn't in his own country. He is in another country, with another culture, another context. Aside from many other factors which I've already addressed.

As far as I'm concerned I think everything's pretty much been covered. Everything here is very interesting food for thought, but for the sake of avoiding runnning pointlessly around in circles, I'm not too sure if I'll keep at it.

Alex.

I really have no idea how you can say that. It has nothing to do with who is morally superior or more accepting of racial minorities. Imagine you went to another country and saw something done casually and thoughtlessly there that not only hasn't been acceptable for the past 90 years in yours but is completely taboo.

Say you went to India and, say, saw someone in an art talent contest make a giant black papier mache swastika. Or wear a trendy Tshirt with a giant swastika on it. Or saw a room decorated with swastikas. Something like that. Even that's not a good analogy.

You'd feel compelled to say something not because "we are better where I'm from" or "you have to be corrected" but because it's a flabbergasting sight and very offensive to you. Simply (and mildly!) stating the objective fact that such a thing is taboo where you are from is not accusing anyone of being better or worse.

"Such a thing would never happen in America!" is not what he said. "If you did that in America, there would be huge trouble!" is what he said. He wasn't saying that America is smarter or better or more tolerant, he was saying "I can't believe this!".

 

[gtc]

Say you went to India and, say, saw someone in an art talent contest make a giant black papier mache swastika. Or wear a trendy Tshirt with a giant swastika on it. Or saw a room decorated with swastikas. Something like that. Even that's not a good analogy.

But the swastika is a very common symbol in India and its use there predates the Nazi party by many thousands of years. Complaining about the use of the swastika in India would be a sign of ignorance.

 

[fromdownunder]

To repeat what others have suggested, I don't think the act was racist, I just thought it was incredibly bad. I was mildly bemused by the idea that Channel 9 would go to the trouble of chasing all around Australia to find six men who did a lousy impersonation of the Jackson's over 20 years ago, simply to repeat that lousy impersonation.

However, to bring something new to the table, I used to be in an amateur theatre group. One year, we decided to put on a Cabaret type show, and one of the items was the Hello Dolly sequence from, well, Hello Dolly.

(Can you see where this is going?) Somebody had to play Satchmo, and I got the job, and did it with Blackface. Was that racist? Or a "homage" (in a very amateur sense - we actually mimed (lip synched) the whole thing, but reproduced the dancing from the original movie). Or an insult to Blacks? Or an insult to Louis?

If so, why?

Norm

 

[Legend]

Bolding mine. You mean like the color of somebody's skin or what kind of hair they have?

They aren't impersonating all black people. They are impersonating the Jackson 5, and so are absolutely not taking anything "out of context" or "exaggerating" anything.

Alex.

 

[Foolmewunz]

They aren't impersonating all black people. They are impersonating the Jackson 5, and so are absolutely not taking anything "out of context" or "exaggerating" anything.

Alex.

Well, let's look at this concept. I started to post this yesterday when you were complaining of GreyIce's "exaggeration" in his over-the-top satire of the situation. Is his exaggeration any worse than what this performance was all about? Hitherto I limited my discussion as to the misinterpretation of Connick's reaction/comments.

Let's look at the underyling premise of "just harmless fun". (Americans may cringe at that expression because for far too long various forms of harassment have been put down in the States to "aww, it's just a bunch of good ol' boys having fun, they didn't mean no harm to the darkie fella, it just got out of hand".)

The Jackson 5 were a black group. Now "black" is just a euphemism. As anyone can tell you, the skin of people with African lineage is generally one shade or another of brown. In the case of middle class African-Americans, it's more a dark cappuccino colour in many cases.
Did they go to the makeup department (it's a TV station/studio) and get done up in a realistic color? No. They got lampblack or black shoe polish and smeared it all over their faces.
And the hair? I don't know how many blacks you have in your area, and I know you're not old enough to remember the actual era when the 'fro was popular, but the afro went out in the 70s, for crissake. Did they try to do a hair style that was from ''89(their original performance) or from today? No. They put on Afro wigs.
So you have moderately clean cut African-Americans being caricatured as pitch black cartoon characters with twenty-year outdated shock afro hairdos. Here's what the J5 actually looked like in '89.
http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail...-5-2300-jackson-street-1989-english/979225518

Very clean cut, even collegiate in their appearance, wouldn't you say. Now contrast that to the coal black makeup and afro wigs.

So, no... they weren't doing an "impression" of the Jackson 5. They were doing an ignorant bunch of white boys' idea of what was funny. As college kids, maybe that's excusable, but as educated adults, I have to think that they were desperate for some fleeting attention to agree to revive the act, even with the hillariously funny part of making fun of Michael's skin colour.

The fact that so many see it as a legitimate "interpretation" and all in good fun is merely an indication that some cannot see the nuances of the racial situation at all and are willing to accept that extreme exaggeration of a person's color and hair is acceptable as entertainment.

 

[gtc]

I'm surprised that someone who lives in Hong Kong could assume that what motivates Americans has to be what motivates Australians and that Australia shares the same cultural heritage as the US. It strikes me as both ignorant and arrogant.

There is no 'the racial situation'. The racial situation in the US is vastly different to the racial situation in China and is vastly different to the racial situation in Australia.

By the way, the were not 'college kids'. They were either 'undergrads' or 'postgrads' and and they weren't a buch of 'white boys' as at least one of them was of Indian origin.

 

[Akhenaten]

Say you went to India and, say, saw someone in an art talent contest make a giant black papier mache swastika. Or wear a trendy Tshirt with a giant swastika on it. Or saw a room decorated with swastikas.

But the swastika is a very common symbol in India and its use there predates the Nazi party by many thousands of years. Complaining about the use of the swastika in India would be a sign of ignorance.

And gtc unleashes the awesome power of the Irony Cannon™.

 

[gtc]

And gtc unleashes the awesome power of the Irony Cannon™.

I tried to parse it as a joke but it seemed to be serious.

It would be like someone standing on Collins St and saying:

"You know, you wouldn't see many people in suits on the beach at Surfers'"

Which would be dumb, obviously.

 

[Akhenaten]

I tried to parse it as a joke but it seemed to be serious.

It would be like someone standing on Collins St and saying:

"You know, you wouldn't see many people in suits on the beach at Surfers'"

Which would be dumb, obviously.

If the obvious irony fails, I'm going to use the fact that an ignorant savage from the antipodes knows the history of the swastika in India as part of my backup plan.

 

[Laton]

So far this whole thing has been the funniest over-reaction since the Danish 'Mohamed cartoons'

 

[Akhenaten]

So far this whole thing has been the funniest over-reaction since the Danish 'Mohamed cartoons'

Now THAT was a whole havingsex naughtypooword-load of funny.


ETA: Hi Laton! Stay alert! We need more lerts. There be fruitcakes about. Crikey!

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Wanted to respond to two posts I didn't the other night:

Maybe our friends down under would like me to send them some Mississippi Coon Jiggers for their children to play with.

We have Coon cheese, named after the man who invented it.

Perhaps you should Google Mississippi Coon Jigger to see what I'm talking about.

Dot or feather?

Subcontinental.

See, without the cultural knowledge of Native American (Indians), that perfectly good racist joke went right over your head.

Now I'm starting to think Harry's being a little ignorantly patriotic.

If you see a used sense of irony on eBay, I'd suggest bidding on it.

eta - I've been thinking about Stepin Fetchit of during this imbruglio and decided to check Youtube. Here's a clip from a 1948 movie.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I'm surprised that someone who lives in Hong Kong could assume that what motivates Americans has to be what motivates Australians and that Australia shares the same cultural heritage as the US. It strikes me as both ignorant and arrogant.

There is no 'the racial situation'. The racial situation in the US is vastly different to the racial situation in China and is vastly different to the racial situation in Australia.

By the way, the were not 'college kids'. They were either 'undergrads' or 'postgrads' and and they weren't a buch of 'white boys' as at least one of them was of Indian origin.

I'll be back. I'm off to take my son out for his constitutional.

In the meanwhile, could you post all the Aussies and Brits and others who comment in threads on American politics and social issues threads (yourself included) and ask if they agree that outsiders shouldn't comment on the complexities(sic) of Australian society?

Surely you didn't mean that?

 

[gtc]

Perhaps you should Google Mississippi Coon Jigger to see what I'm talking about.

I did. The Alabama coon jigger seems to be a type of toy. Is the Mississippi coon a type of cat?

See, without the cultural knowledge of Native American (Indians), that perfectly good racist joke went right over your head.

I thought it was that you meant they wore feathers?

Maybe you could explain what I am missing.

 

[Slayhamlet]

I tried to parse it as a joke but it seemed to be serious.

It would be like someone standing on Collins St and saying:

"You know, you wouldn't see many people in suits on the beach at Surfers'"

Which would be dumb, obviously.

So you mean you completely missed the point of EeneyMinnieMoe's post? Read it again. He's obviously well aware of the significance that the swastika holds in Indian society, which is exactly why he mentioned it.

 

[lionking]

You certainly ration your contributions Laton.

Having read all the contributions, I'm starting to change my opinion. I think most people agree that it would have been better if the skit did not go ahead. I think it's also clear that this event does not mean Australia is a racist nation (it may be, but this is not good evidence).

But today no person or nation lives in a bubble. Offensive telecasts in Gaza and Iran will be broadcast worldwide and, while acceptable in the country of origin, will be judged harshly elsewhere. That's where we stand. People overseas have the right to be offended and people like PM Rudd and DPM Gillard should apologise.

 

[Akhenaten]

So you mean you completely missed the point of EeneyMinnieMoe's post? Read it again. He's obviously well aware of the significance that the swastika holds in Indian society, which is exactly why he mentioned it.

If the obvious irony fails, I'm going to use the fact that an ignorant savage from the antipodes knows the history of the swastika in India as part of my backup plan.

Launching the attack budgie as we speak.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I'll be back. I'm off to take my son out for his constitutional.

In the meanwhile, could you post all the Aussies and Brits and others who comment in threads on American politics and social issues threads (yourself included) and ask if they agree that outsiders shouldn't comment on the complexities(sic) of Australian society?

Surely you didn't mean that?

No one is going to confuse me with a card carrying NAACP member so I think this is what really has me hacked about the responses from some of our Australian members. Some of /b] Theym can talk all the **** they want about Americans and America, but God forbid we don't hold our tongues if we something in Australia that we feel warrents criticism. Even if it's something like an effin TV show.

- eta bolds and strike

 

[Akhenaten]

I'll be back. I'm off to take my son out for his constitutional.

In the meanwhile, could you post all the Aussies and Brits and others who comment in threads on American politics and social issues threads (yourself included) and ask if they agree that outsiders shouldn't comment on the complexities(sic) of Australian society?

Surely you didn't mean that?

I've commented in such threads. I particularly enjoyed the Civil War/Slavery thread in 'History'.

I was there to learn, and I'm grateful for having done so. I was not very much involved in the discussions and my comments were largely throw-aways to express my apppreciation for the history lessons.

I know this isn't what you were getting at in your post above, but I would like you to know that I understand your point, and support what you are saying.


Sincerely,

Dave