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"Black face" skit on Australian variety show

Yes I am saddened and ashamed that Aussie TV is capable of producing such shockingly stupid and offensive "entertainment" in 2009. I hope that the producers of this show are never let lose anywhere near a control room or studio ever again.

Having said that, we are talking here about Channel Nein (not a typo). Look up the name Sam Newman or AFL Footy Show to see more examples of this unfortunately all too common type of pig-headed boorishness.

There is an undercurrent of racism here in Australia which I abhor, but I am not going to leave anytime soon, so I just do my best to point it out and denounce it when I see it.

The cartoon reference to Kamahl was the icing on the fruitcake.

Seriously, after all the problems Amanda Duthie had at the ABC after The Chaser's ill considered "Dieing Kids" sketch, I hope the clowns responsible for Hey Hey's re-animation are demoted to carpark toilet attendants at the Frankston Bowl-a-rama.

Just too sad.


Hear hear. :)

Noblecaboose and I were just discussing this, actually. Australia has a rather varied culture. We have our fair share of idiot rednecks who have led rather sheltered existences. Hell, I came from the city that gave birth to Pauline Hanson's career. They're the same idiots who scratch their heads in bewilderment when somebody tries to point out why something like this sketch could be considered offensive to some.

But, in line with what you're saying...it is Channel Nine. I argued that while we can easily judge people for being naive and narrow minded, by the same token one can't blame them for not really thinking. Sure, they might relish their own ignorance, and proudly state that they have no need to inform themselves beyond their own backyard, which is their right. You can't expect to them to understand other cultural perspectives if they're willingly blinding themselves to it. And, I'm proud to say that Australia will still give them a voice.

Fortunately I suspect more people cringed and judged the repeat of this skit as sad and in poor taste than twenty odd years ago. And, I'm happy to say, give it another twenty years and I'm sure such a thing will be seen by most people as a thing of the past completely, and most will question why such a thing would ever be considered as funny in the first place.

Athon
 
That post provokes me to say something.

I come from a family of pure racists. I am not racist and find myself frequently getting into altercations with them in defense of not only the Indigenous Australians we see, but Asians from China, Japan, India, everywhere.

I'm sure no one took me for a racist person because you're all too smart for that, namely the two I am discussing this with (nooblecaboose and EMM), but just in case.

Alex.
 
That post provokes me to say something.

I come from a family of pure racists. I am not racist and find myself frequently getting into altercations with them in defense of not only the Indigenous Australians we see, but Asians from China, Japan, India, everywhere.

I'm sure no one took me for a racist person because you're all too smart for that, namely the two I am discussing this with (nooblecaboose and EMM), but just in case.

Alex.

Alex I am certain that nobody here has viewed you as racist.

I agree with your views of the skit, but thing you are punching at shadows a bit.
 
Alex I am certain that nobody here has viewed you as racist.

I agree with your views of the skit, but thing you are punching at shadows a bit.

I'm not sure I follow.

If you mean I'm making a deal out of nothing, I don't think I am. If you mean I am attacking the wrong people, I don't think I'm attacking, but debating/discussing with those that disagree with me; people I hold nothing against and one of which is a good mate on this site. If you mean that I'm wasting time, I don't think I am.

You may not mean any of these things. :D

Alex.
 
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Hmmmm...

Not really sure if I should say what I'm thinking. But, Legend, you may recall a conversation we once had.

I haven't forgotten it.
 
Maybe our friends down under would like me to send them some Mississippi Coon Jiggers for their children to play with.

Dot or feather?

Actually, that reminds me. Can you still buy Coon cheese in Australia?
 
slingblade said:
Hmmmm...

Not really sure if I should say what I'm thinking. But, Legend, you may recall a conversation we once had.

I haven't forgotten it.

Nor have I.

This one is totally separate and absolutely different.

Alex.
 
Parody does not=black face. Billy Crystal doing an impression of Sammy Davis Jr. isn't black face. Robert Downey Jr. in Tropic Thunder isn't black face.

This quote is the one I've found most interesting in this thread so far. As somebody who only heard of the term "black face" about 24 hours ago I must admit I don't quite understand it.
I personally didn't find the act offensive, and didn't even think about the coloured faces until it was mentioned, but I understand why it can be considered offensive. What I don't understand is the criteria for determining whether it is offensive or not.

Going from the quote above: the way I see things is that this act was a parody of the Jackson five. So, if people like Billy Crystal can parody and that's fine, why is it different for these guys? Do you have to be a well-known/well-liked person in order to parody, otherwise you're being racist? I'd argue that the skit itself wasn't racist, and probably not inappropriate for an Australian audience (but, obviously inappropriate for an American audience). I also find the obvious double standard of blacks being able to dress as whites but whites not being able to dress as blacks racist in itself. I understand the history, and why one is considered worse than the other, but I can't see how having racially-based double standards encourages us to overcome racism.

On a slightly different note: I've seen a few on this thread dismiss the fact that one of the performers was Indian, but I personally think this is the greatest indication that there was no racist intention. Indians have gone through a hell of a lot of racist crap in Australia this year (particularly in Melbourne) to the point where we've had to send politicians over there to try and smooth things over. I think that aside from the Aborigines, they are the group in Australia that can currently identify the most with the racism shown to the Blacks in America.
 
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I didn't see that post, but it's a great example.

Now I'm starting to think Harry's being a little ignorantly patriotic.

Alex.
 
I'm torn between enjoying the Aussie chauvinism (of certain posters) and the over-reaction in the media (O'Reilly? Really?).

A dumb comedy sketch by people who should've thought it through a little better. Truly. As someone mentioned, it ain't so much the racism but the fact that it's not funny that offends me. It doesn't strike me as blatantly aggressively nastily racist - just absent minded matter-of-fact inconsiderate racist.


QFT


So - who's up for the only good Harry Connick joke, ever?


It will be the first one I've heard. Your hypothesis is confirmed.


What's the difference between Harry Connick's band and a moose?

On a moose the horns are in front and the ***hole is in the rear.

:D

Kewl. Thank you.
 
Actually, that reminds me. Can you still buy Coon cheese in Australia?

Yes, it's what my family buys. My wife, me and my daughter have/are growing up eating Coon cheese and the word simply has no other meaning for us beyond that. Also "bugger" is an everyday word here while I know people who will still giggle at the theme song of The Nanny ("out on her fanny").

As for the skit, my wife can't understand the controversy - I've had to explain the historical conatations of blackface and why, given American history, it is deeply offensive to many people depending on their background. The consensus seems to be that the performers didn't mean anything by it, were honestly trying to do a tongue-in-check tribute and that the main issue seems to be that the TV station were foolish to put them on - they knew in advance what the act was going to be. It's been pointed out to me that the show was essentially doing the same stuff as twenty years ago and, well, the world has moved on just a tad since then.
 
As an American living in Australia I've encountered a lot of things I would consider racially insensitive, and some that I find downright offensive.
For example, the N-word isn't really as shockingly taboo as it is back home. My husband's brother-in-law, when I told him about the murder rate back in Oakland, where I used to live, asked if it was mostly a "[n-word] problem." It was like someone had knocked the wind out of me. I can't even say that word unless I'm being ironic, quoting, or reciting rap lyrics and even then it makes me very uncomfortable to say it.
Also, I see these golliwog dolls in quaint gift shops and toy stores and I just have to shake my head and cringe. There is no way you'd see that in America, except maybe at a crafts faire at a white racist church in the South, and even then they'd be made by a woman in her 80's who didn't know better.
I grew up in California, where political correctness arose out of an environment of social activism in the 60's. My dad, who is white, used to volunteer for the Black Panthers and personally knew Huey P. Newton. He wasn't perfect, though. He used to read to me from a copy of "Little Black Sambo" that he had as a child growing up in the South. Still, it's from that upbringing that I was raised to be aware of racism and aware of societal context, especially that things haven't always been the way they are.

I think Harry Connick Jr.'s reaction was perfectly reasonable. Considering the historical context of racism in the U.S. (slavery, black suffrage, Jim Crow, race riots, KKK, MLK, etc.) we have a much lower threshold for stereotypes.

As for the comparison to "White Chicks" and other examples of African America performers playing white? Well, let's just say I'm not as quick to jump on the bandwagon of calling that racist. White people didn't get bought and sold for four hundred years, then deliberately insulted and denigrated on every occasion, and have the only white faces seen in any popular media portrayed as grotesque caricatures. I think, frankly a little joke at our expense isn't so bad, considering how easy we've had it.

As for the comparison to Robert Downey Jr. in "Tropic Thunder," did anyone miss the irony that his character was an Australian who didn't seem to understand how racist it was that he was playing a black man? Or that the actual African American character in the movie is himself playing up to a stereotype in order to conceal his homosexuality while simultaneously calling out Robert Downey Jr.'s character for being a racist stereotype and taking away a role from an actual African American actor? There were layers upon layers of satire going on in that film, not just poking fun at method acting.
It is way different from a bunch of dentists or whatever putting on afro wigs and singing a Jackson 5 song.
The sketch was just bad taste. It's stupid, not clever and was rightfully gonged and put in its place. The intent wasn't necessarily racist, at least not by Australian standards, but it is something that I, as an American, would never want to be associated with and find absolutely unacceptable.


Thank you very much for this post.

Your situation brings me a point of view that I've not had the pleasure of sharing up until now. It's very nice to see that it is what it is.


Well said, old fruit,

Dave

:USA:
 
nooblecaboose said:
As for the comparison to Robert Downey Jr. in "Tropic Thunder," did anyone miss the irony that his character was an Australian who didn't seem to understand how racist it was that he was playing a black man? Or that the actual African American character in the movie is himself playing up to a stereotype in order to conceal his homosexuality while simultaneously calling out Robert Downey Jr.'s character for being a racist stereotype and taking away a role from an actual African American actor? There were layers upon layers of satire going on in that film, not just poking fun at method acting.
It is way different from a bunch of dentists or whatever putting on afro wigs and singing a Jackson 5 song.

But that's the thing. The "black faces" are not only not a problem in Australia, or a "taboo" as it's otherwise been put. It was taking a stab at the Jackson 5. Impersonating black people through having a black face. There's nothing racial in that because it DOES NOT denigrate black people.

Why hasn't anyone considered my comment about masks in my "To Everyone" address:

What if they wore masks? What if they wore (strangely enough) black faced masks of these men? Would it be racist then? Would he even have considered speaking out "on behalf of his country"?

Don't think so. You can't tell me you do.

It is an impersonation, just like Robert Downey Jnr.'s. I'm sorry but nothing I've seen or heard hear is moving me an inch in the opposite direction.

nooblecaboose said:
Also, I see these golliwog dolls in quaint gift shops and toy stores and I just have to shake my head and cringe. There is no way you'd see that in America, except maybe at a crafts faire at a white racist church in the South, and even then they'd be made by a woman in her 80's who didn't know better.

And the bolded part is my problem. This is not America. You cannot transform culture to adhere to a culture an entire hemisphere away. What you consider racist is one thing, what we consider racist is another. I just don't understand this point of, "You'd never see that in America", and therefore Australia is (or this skit is) in the wrong.

Alex.
 
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