Bjarne on: Dark Energy, only an illusion.

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No one disagrees that gravity has a role in the formation of clouds. They are formed of water droplets suspended against the pull of gravity by hydrodynamic pressure.
Only an idiot would think that gravity creates holes in clouds. But then

Don't underestimate > Central gravity.
These days are soon over.
 
Why does bjarnes approach to Physics make me think of this scene from Blinkende Lygter?
 
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Edited for response to modded post.
 
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Newtonian gravity is central so your "Central gravity" is nonsense.
Newtonian "central" gravity is invented to fit to humans brains and human logic, - but still not proven by the scientific methods, not measured and not signed by gravity, and also also not approved by the world's cow logic association.
 
Newtonian "central" gravity is invented to fit to humans brains and human logic, - but still not proven by the scientific methods, not measured and not signed by gravity, and also also not approved by the world's cow logic association.
What ignorance, Bjarne :jaw-dropp!


Newtonian gravity is a vaild and tested model of how gravity acts in the real world. Thousands of experiments on gravity have not diisproved it (in the non-GR limit).
  • Newtonian gravity has been proven by the scientific method.
  • Newtonian gravity has been measured.
  • Newtonian gravity has been "signed by gravity"
But this ignorance of science is not surprising, given:

And again with your moo cows
:dl:​
 
OK, so Bjarne posts something new. So I'll respond. Let me start by saying the there is truth in Bjarnes post and there is news. Unfortunately, the truth is not new, and the news is not truth.

Data will come, take it easy.

Oh, I take it quite easy. In fact, I don't really give a damn.

One week ago I discocered >> these "hole in the sky" ....( that confirms it seems I was right conserning that gravity also is invloved in creating tornadoes and hurricanes)

Well, better late than never. Your 'discovery' isn't exactly news, though.

First at all, yes it is hard to believe that gravity also is involved in the "holes in clouds" you can see below..

Of course it is.

But big clouds are "heavy" extended masses, and gravity is without doubt involved, - the question is just how much .

Quite a lot. Clouds are, directly or indirectly, the product of heat convection, and that would not exist were it not for gravity.

Let the impression hang in the air some few days, and after just a little speculation, many of you will see how simple and natural it is that gravity does play a role in these - hole in the sky - "mysteries" too.

Except they are not mysteries.:p

Many people believe UFO's are involved

Well there are such people who will ascribe practically anything to UFOs. :rolleyes:

- because science can't give a complete explanation - so far.

Wrong. Science can explain them. Of course, when somebody shows up with a shot of a hole in the clouds, it is hard to tell exactly which of the possible mechanisms was responsible for just that occurrence, but, there is no mystery.

the answer is much more down to earth simple. > central gravity.

PSST! That name is already taken. You have to find some other name for your fancy idea. How about "The Kolding Effect"?;)

Also this is a little hint of what we can expect in central gravity measurement experiments (and in black holes)

Do give me a call whne you start measuring on black holes.:cool:

But the heavy ice crystals are not created by airplanes (if so the hole would not be round), these are also not created by sky's in higher altitude, (this can not explain the round shape and the relative small size).

And you know this how? Ahh, a cow told you?

The reel cause is slow upwards rotating air moving both upwards and towards the gravitional centre of small weak low pressures, (most often towards a the centre of a big cloud) and at the same time (natually) rotating upwards.

I can't make head or tail of that. Try again. (Or don't, I'm indifferent)

When slowly moving upwards air (in the centre of small low pressure) rise, the vapour (as the upwards rotating wind carries) crystallizes, and fall down (after a while), - the same way it came from (in the centre of the hole).

No. A low air pressure comes because air moves upwards, not the other way around. Do read up on meteorology.

Hans
 
Well there are such people who will ascribe practically anything to UFOs
If science cannot give a good satisfying explanation, - witch in fact is the case here, - it is only naturally that many people begins to believe UFO are the cause.

No. A low air pressure comes because air moves upwards, not the other way around. Do read up on meteorology.
This is the main energy source of all kind of low pressure, but doesn’t explain everything.

Quite a lot. Clouds are, directly or indirectly, the product of heat convection, and that would not exist were it not for gravity.
According to the prevailing speculation, the speed / pull (due to gravity) towards the center of a big cloud or cloud system is decreasing.
Therefore “we” (except me and the cow logic association) even do not consider if gravity is involved in low pressure, tornados, hurricanes, or such hole in the sky’s shown above..

We do understand much of the ingredients / drive in these phenomena's, but we don’t know what actually is causing the very first start of a low pressures - why thunder-clouds in the start of the process slowly begins to gather together. - This is in fact a mystery.

The answer is the exact same as the dark matter phenomena.
Matter( in this acse heavy thunder Clouds) are pulled towards the gravitionel center of any extended mass system (also towards the gravitionel center of cloud system).
This is also NOT a new invention, but just one more naturally consequence of the theory

This happens because of gravity, and because of towards the gravitionel center ADG is NOT decreasing, but either stable or accelerating.

Yes, I can read you thought, - gravity is a weak force, but time is decisive, - because even though a mass systems as clouds only are causing weak ADG, - then notice time will do the job, because motion towards the center is accelerating.

If a stone could continue to fall towards the Earth (without resistance) it would reach a huge speed and maybe “c”. the same is the case with air-masses in motion.
Notice if air masses are moving, air cannot resist its own motion.
Therefore in this case there is no resistance against clouds / gravity-motion.

So a even weak low pressure travelling around the planet can over time reach pretty large speed towards it gravitionel center.

THIS is for example also the cause of hurricanes at all gas-planet, where I am sure you know it is NOT heat that drives these phenomena’s, - BUT what then ? - One more mystery - The answer is; gravity.
Rising heat rise is reinforcing a process that in its basic have been started by gravity.
And gravity is always responsible for a part of the phenomena as well, - but unfortunately our understanding is completely overshadowed by the fact that heat rise is a much bigger FORCE / ENERGI.
So yes heat-convection is doing the biggest part of the job, but do not explian the cause of these phenomena, - not locally on this planet, and not globaly in this solar system

Now ask you self at least 100 time:
  • What is the cause of hurricanes at gas-planets? (you KNOW it is not heat rise – right?)
  • What tricker the very first start of a hurricane (gathering thunder clouds)?
  • What are these holes in the sky’s always pretty round shaped?
  • What are these holes in the sky’s relative small?
  • What make a cloud / tornado slowly start rotating? (the vortex speculating effect? – forget it)

- It is better for people to be like the beasts...they should be more intuitive; they should not be too conscious of what they are doing while they are doing it. (moo)
- Imagination is more important than knowledge.
- A person starts to live when he can live outside himself.
- Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.
- Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.
- The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.
- Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.
Albert Einstein
 
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It should have been ......

Now ask you self at least 100 time:

  • What is the cause of hurricanes at gas-planets? (you KNOW it is not heat rise – right?)
  • What tricker the very first start of a hurricane (gathering thunder clouds)?
  • What are these holes in the sky’s always pretty round shaped?
  • Why are these holes in the sky’s relative small?
  • Why make a cloud / tornado slowly start rotating? (the vortex speculating effect? – forget it)
 
It should have been ......

Now ask you self at least 100 time:

  • What is the cause of hurricanes at gas-planets? (you KNOW it is not heat rise – right?)
  • What tricker the very first start of a hurricane (gathering thunder clouds)?
  • What are these holes in the sky’s always pretty round shaped?
  • Why are these holes in the sky’s relative small?
  • Why make a cloud / tornado slowly start rotating? (the vortex speculating effect? – forget it)
Now ask you self at least 100 time: Why is Bjarne so unable to do basic research?

The cause and start of the hurricanes on gas-planets is the same as the cause of hurricanes on non-gas-planets: Hurricane

The fatal flaws and basic ignorance in Bjarne's ideas in his threads
 
The cause and start of the hurricanes on gas-planets is the same as the cause of hurricanes on non-gas-planets: Hurricane

Crap, number 3214745923 on my stupid-list, - the shown link is to hurricanes on earth.

One of the main unanswered question is: What is causing thunder clouds to gather west from central Africa = a mystery.

There are no evidence for huge atmospheric heat convection for example in Neptune’s atmosphere, in the same way known at Earth.
Hence also no heat to drive hurricanes. It's a mystery RC...
To keep a hurricane going requires a HUGE amount of heat....

Even at the Earth we do not fully understand how hurricanes are created:
(Aug. 5) -- We know when they form, where they form and where they are likely to go, but the "why" and "how" and "how strong" of hurricanes remain something of a mystery. That ambiguity won't stand for much longer if NASA has anything to say about it, however. Source http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/a...-for-holy-grail-of-hurricane-science/19583138
 
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Crap, number 3214745923 on my stupid-list, - the shown link is to hurricanes on earth.
[/qute]
Crap, number 321474592382663 on my stupid-list - the link is to hurricanes on earth and the same mechanism alpllies to gas-giants :eye-poppi!

There are no evidence for huge atmospheric heat convection for example in Neptune’s atmosphere, in the same way known at Earth.
Citations or are you lying?

Hence also no heat to drive hurricanes. It's a mystery RC...
To keep a hurricane going requires a HUGE amount of heat....
There is a HUGE amount of heat in gas-giants.
This is a mystery to you Bjarne, not to anyone who can do a minute of research.

Even at the Earth we do not fully understand how hurricanes are created:
...nipped news article...
Even at the Earth we do not fully understand how hurricanes are created and that does not matter.
That is yet another consequence of your ignorance of science.
Science never "fully" understands anything :jaw-dropp!
Scientists never expect to "fully" understand anything. Science is a process of making increasingly more accurate models of the real universe.

 
Bjarne
There is no evidence for huge atmospheric heat convection for example in Neptune’s atmosphere, in the same way known at Earth.
RC
Citations or are you lying?
Did you notice the word; “huge”?
Yes, - Jupiter has more heat in its atmosphere as expected (coming from an unknown source) but not something you can compare to the huge heat convection in the Earth atmosphere.

Off course we have far from a full overview of what causes the many storms / hurricane created on Jupiter or other gas planets; - so long we even have not the full overview of what causing (etc) hurricanes on Earth.

Off course heat release on the gas planets also are ingredients of hurricane, but since many of these hurricanes are hundreds of times larger than on earth, central gravity is also proportional larger.

Even at the Earth we do not fully understand how hurricanes are created and that does not matter.
Science never "fully" understands anything

Finally.
So theoretically there must be a little crack in the anti crackpot glasses, to allow new knowledge to shine in ?

It is cow obviously that we certainly have more to learn about why hurricane in general can be very unpredictable.

There are several unanswered question.
One of the most important in this regards is why they at all emerge.

As I wrote:
West from Central Africa Thunder clouds suddenly can begin to gather together and circulate around a central point, very slowly.

Not always the same pattern but suddenly it happens; > a hurricane is born.
WHY IS NOT UNDERSTOOD. And THIS is my point.

Gravity pulls the thicker (when nothing disturbs it from doing so)
THEN heat convection gets involve and reinforce the process.

BUT the point is, - a blanket of heavy thunder clouds, - DO HAVE RELATIVE STRONG CENTRAL GRAVITY.

The time such thunder clouds systems / small low-pressure exist is also important.

If NASA really wants to do some large research to get answers to the last questions of what the last secrets of Hurricanes are, -they should measure ADG just above the center of hurricanes; here there certainly are pretty large positive gravity anomalies, even though it is above the cloud free inner eye.

These anomalies are increasing proportional with mass of the hurricane, and will be much better understood in the coming near future.

If the weight of Jupiter’s big hurricane is 1000 times the mass of a hurricane at earth, then also gravity are 1000 times stronger involved? – And off course also the heat release from Jupiter is involved.

But we have much more to learn before we know exactly what is up and down.

It is not much more to say about that yet.
 
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If science cannot give a good satisfying explanation, - witch in fact is the case here, - it is only naturally that many people begins to believe UFO are the cause.

Why? What is the evidence that UFO's exist?

On, and science can give a good explanation.

This is the main energy source of all kind of low pressure, but doesn’t explain everything.

No, a number of other factors are important. Nothing mysterious, however.

According to the prevailing speculation, the speed / pull (due to gravity) towards the center of a big cloud or cloud system is decreasing.

This does not have any meaning. What were you trying to say?


We do understand much of the ingredients / drive in these phenomena's, but we don’t know what actually is causing the very first start of a low pressures - why thunder-clouds in the start of the process slowly begins to gather together. - This is in fact a mystery.

When you say 'we' here, you must mean you and the cows. The rest of us have no problem, and no mystery.

The answer is the exact same as the dark matter phenomena.
Matter( in this acse heavy thunder Clouds) are pulled towards the gravitionel center of any extended mass system (also towards the gravitionel center of cloud system).

As you say: Crap.

Yes, I can read you thought, - gravity is a weak force, but time is decisive, - because even though a mass systems as clouds only are causing weak ADG, - then notice time will do the job, because motion towards the center is accelerating.

No, Bjarne, you cant read my thoughts. They were along quite different lines. The forum rules forbid me from being more specific.

If a stone could continue to fall towards the Earth (without resistance) it would reach a huge speed and maybe “c”. the same is the case with air-masses in motion.

Wrong.

Notice if air masses are moving, air cannot resist its own motion.
Therefore in this case there is no resistance against clouds / gravity-motion.

Wrong.

So a even weak low pressure travelling around the planet can over time reach pretty large speed towards it gravitionel center.

Wrong. Read up on Coriolis Effect.

THIS is for example also the cause of hurricanes at all gas-planet, where I am sure you know it is NOT heat that drives these phenomena’s,

What makes you think it is not heat?

What is the cause of hurricanes at gas-planets? (you KNOW it is not heat rise – right?)

How do I know it is not heat rise?

What tricker the very first start of a hurricane (gathering thunder clouds)?

Rising air.

What are these holes in the sky’s always pretty round shaped?

What shape would you expect them to be?

What are these holes in the sky’s relative small?

How big would you expect them to be.

To the two last questions: Bjarne, there are all sorts of holes in the clouds (not the sky, there are no holes in the sky), all sizes and all shapes. However, the ones people notice and take pictures of are the small rounds ones. Therefore the holes we see on pictures are the small round ones.

What make a cloud / tornado slowly start rotating? (the vortex speculating effect? – forget it)

Conversion of angular momentum starts them rotating. The origin of the angular momentum is nearly always the coriolis effect, directly or indirectly.

Hans
 
So theoretically there must be a little crack in the anti crackpot glasses, to allow new knowledge to shine in ?

Bjarne, we all welcome new knowledge. All you provide is idle speculation. The few times you have provided data, you have misinterpreted them.

......

Oh, I forgot, we should not feed this. It is just that Bjarnes ideas are so bizarre that you need to poke them to see if they are for real.

Bye, Bjarne. I'll keep tap and see if you have some realities to present, some fine day. Otherwise, I'm out of here.

Hans
 
This does not have any meaning. What were you trying to say?
So long you underestimate the nature of gravity; you’ll also not in any case be able to understand that central gravity is a much more important a factor to trigger all kind of low pressure, - as you believe.

Bjarne
If science cannot give a good satisfying explanation, - witch in fact is the case here, - it is only naturally that many people begins to believe UFO are the cause.
Hans
Why? What is the evidence that UFO's exist?
Read what I wrote.
It is not my opinion that these holes are made of UFO.
Is it possible to be more superficial than you?
It is rather a serious bad sign that proves that millions of people do not buy the incomplete scientific explanation.

The rest of us have no problem, and no mystery.
Except off course million of people that are left alone, due to incomplete science and hence get reasons to believe in HUGE, - UFO invasion.
And other millions that just wonder what in hell in this.?

A little innocent whirlwind in Sahara do not suddenly by change cause thunderclouds to circle around a central point.
This is a unsound ridiculous and a desperate nuts idea.
Such small whirlwind doesn’t cause a Hurricane, not a Tornado, and not any low pressure in general to emerge, and not holes in the clouds.
Small innocent whirlwind are always very temporary.
This nuts idea that these can trigger hurricanes is never observed or proven in any way. .

Something ALWAYS pulls the trigger, and keeps pulling it, - and this is Mr. Gravity.

What shape would you expect them to be?
If aircraft really should be the cause I expect 2 stripes of ice falling down.

If clouds in higher altitude should be the cause I expect to be able to see such upper clouds, - Most of the times they do not exist. I do not see these at the photos or videos.

Can you see these upper clouds?

http://weathervortex.com/sky-holes.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XvBYBOFKaM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXF9HSB627U&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91DngoT5Hi8&feature=related

I cannot.

And I expect the holes in the lower clouds to be much larger and never completely round shaped.

All you provide is idle speculation
No all are inevitable consequences of the simple fact that we have not understood central gravity is much stronger that the prevailing creeds claims .

If this theory is possible to prove in one case, for example by central gravity measurements, big part of a world religion will collapses like a house of cards.
And cohorent science will begin to rule.

To the two last questions: Bjarne, there are all sorts of holes in the clouds (not the sky, there are no holes in the sky), all sizes and all shapes. However, the ones people notice and take pictures of are the small rounds ones. Therefore the holes we see on pictures are the small round ones.
Amen..
 
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Bjarne, we all welcome new knowledge. All you provide is idle speculation. The few times you have provided data, you have misinterpreted them.

......

Oh, I forgot, we should not feed this. It is just that Bjarnes ideas are so bizarre that you need to poke them to see if they are for real.

Bye, Bjarne. I'll keep tap and see if you have some realities to present, some fine day. Otherwise, I'm out of here.

Hans

I have Bjarne on ignore until he wins a Nobel prize.We're all going to look pretty silly then,when he is hailed as the new Einstein.
 
I have Bjarne on ignore until he wins a Nobel prize.We're all going to look pretty silly then,when he is hailed as the new Einstein.
Well, I live with greater risks in my life. ... Without loosing a minute of sleep.

Hans
 
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