• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

Status
Not open for further replies.
William Parcher said:
But any such legal contract would not be breached unless Gimlin actually did confess. What happens then and how would the contract be enforced? If the PGF hoax would constitute legal fraud, then it seems the contract would be another crime in itself.

Valid point. Conceded.

I'm not sure this was concluded. Would any lawyer be witness/signer to the creation of a legal contract that involved binding somebody to not confess to felony fraud or some kind of grand hoax? How would that contract read? I would think that "hoax" or "confession" should not be any part of the contract. What would a contract look like that was intended to keep Gimlin from ever admitting to the PGF scam?
 
Yeah, it would hurt you or me. But Roger knew that Bigfoot is truly enormous because he drew a picture of the one that lifted his car. Looking at the drawn size of the Bigfoot lifting his VW, he would have been a fool to take a .303 British as self-defense (he didn't want to kill a Bigfoot unless absolutely necessary). He needed a really big rifle like that used for elephants or Cape buffalo. He must have deduced that after actually seeing the whopper that lifted his car. Roger was not the kind of guy to lie about anything or tell false stories. I guess he didn't have the money to buy a gun that would stop Grendel before it tore him in half. Maybe he was just naive.

Look again at that drawing he made. Note the size of the animal he witnessed lifting his VW Beetle. Then, at least allow him to make the mistake of bringing the wrong gun to go searching for this Bigfoot.

I've only recently learned about Patterson's book. He had talents. His Sasquatch are more or less big hairy humans somewhat lean and athletic in appearance. Then there's the PGF Creature that almost flies in the face of Rogers concept or expierence.

Its the size thing though that on helped temper my own ideas about what may or my not have been lurking out there. When I actualy stopped and measured and did the math about what a 12ft tall primate would actually be like I realized that they would have qualified as among the most massive mammals on the continent. Even 8ft is a stretch but could have made things scary enough for Roger in his VW.
 
William, William, William you surprise me you've made the assumption of Mr. concerning me in your response. Lets assume all we want about Mr. Patterson's shirts, Bob's wigs and even why female Sasquatch were in the written and filmed works of Roger Patterson. But gender assumptions about internet forum posters can be a leaps of assumptions lacking accuracy.

I don't care at all about being accurate with your gender. A complete total lack of concern.

That said I really don't remember where I downloaded the horse and rider lineup.

Big surprise, Ms. ADD.

One last question what is this Thunderdome you and some others keep talking about?

Madmax02.jpg
 
I don't care at all about being accurate with your gender. A complete total lack of concern.



Big surprise, Ms. ADD.



[qimg]http://www.geocities.com/aaronbcaldwell/Madmax02.jpg[/qimg]

Ok Madmax I seem to remember. But seriously this forum isn't a Thunderdome. Its more like bottlerockets and cap guns.
 
Last edited:
Its the size thing though that on helped temper my own ideas about what may or my not have been lurking out there. When I actualy stopped and measured and did the math about what a 12ft tall primate would actually be like I realized that they would have qualified as among the most massive mammals on the continent. Even 8ft is a stretch but could have made things scary enough for Roger in his VW.

(Note to self) Attack the argument, not the arguer.

Your arguments are among the stupidest that I have ever seen.
 
(Note to self) Attack the argument, not the arguer.

Your arguments are among the stupidest that I have ever seen.

So William what in you estimation would a reasonable size have been? Are you a proponent of larger or smaller? I think I made it clear that towering 12 foot giants didn't make sense.
 
Last edited:
I'm not saying anything about you as a person, Crow. I'm only talking about your arguments. They are very stupid.
 
I'm not saying anything about you as a person, Crow. I'm only talking about your arguments. They are very stupid.

William there are reams of stupid arguments here. Pick a thread any thread and you'll find stupid arguments. Now I'm maintaining that these creatures don't even exist anymore and haven't for half a century or better. But slight chance that they once did or still do is at times worth speculating about. Right now its worth my time to speculate on these things. I may wake up tomorrow and care less about it. So within that slight chance there are reports of sightings where claims of size are made. Claims of extreme size as we all know. So I made the effort of measuring a fixture and sizing a Sasquatch to match that fixture. The fixture is 12 ft tall exactly. The gentleman in the photo stands 5'10". The Sasquatch figure standing next to him is 12ft and 10ft. I asked myself the question are these 12 ft tall giants lumbering unseen and virtually unkown through the hinterland of the PNW? Ask youself the question I think you know what I've concluded.




 
KKZ, as confident as I may seem in the analysis of these evidences, there are still potential wildcards in the deck. Some riding scenes may have been filmed even before 1967. I'm nearly desperate for any scene that can be confirmed as Bob Gimlin at Bluff Creek. I was hoping that Dfoot would respond to my question about whether Green is correct in identifying Gimlin pulling a packhorse at Bluff Creek. I don't have access to the source of his still frames (X Creatures), and so I have nothing to analyze but the two stills which are not particularly clear.

Here again is the stack of selected frames. I want to know if the rider in frames 1 & 5, is Bob or Roger. Green and Dfoot said it's Bob Gimlin. Both frames show the back only, and it's hard to tell if chaps are being worn. I don't know if I'm seeing a shirt or a jacket. If that is a light blue (denim?) shirt, then I can link that to Gimlin. A wig would be a give-away (long hair down the back), and I am not seeing that on this mystery rider. I also want to know if that horse has socks.

If there was anything that Roger felt was deserving of strict continuity throughout the footages (particularly at Bluff Creek), it may have been Gimlin's "Indian tracker" wig. If you've got a scene of Bob without the wig at Bluff Creek, then you have serious problem explaining Bob's very long hair (wig) at any of the very early film showings where he makes an appearance (wearing the wig). You just don't grow that kind of hair in 10 days.

I'm really curious about how seriously this wig was used as a prop. Did Roger genuinely attempt to fool all audiences into thinking that Bob really does have hair like that? Did it truly obligate Bob to wear that thing anytime there was an audience? Would he have been forced to wear it in DeAtley's basement if he had shown up? How were P&G supposed to proceed dealing with that wig and still maintain some kind of credibility? Imagine what interested scientists and other thinking people would be faced with. Yeah, these professionals are glued to the screen, those enlarged prints, and the casts, while Gimlin watches them in the wig. Patterson may have been wearing formal Western wear that he got after scamming yet another person that he did not pay (read Greg Long). These guys walk out of the forest with a genuine film of an undocumented giant hairy bipedal primate - and you still put a wig on Gimlin as he shakes everyones hand at a showing? WTF is up with that? We can potentially understand the use of this prop to add character to your documentary, but there is a time to stop wearing it. Lose the wig and start getting serious, boys!

It truly amazes me that anyone ever believed these guys or could even take them halfway seriously. I think that most people did not. That is still true forty years later.

Oh, and here's more fun stuff. Gimlin must have had at least two wigs, or else he did a sweet styling job on the one.

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310/william_parcher/8eed5c42.jpg

Hey William --- I can answer a little of that...

I posted those images to show what Roger and Merritt were up to. The LEFT SIDE shows GIMLIN and the guys in Roger's original movie shot in May of '67 just before he got hold of Vilma Radford's cash and went to Hollywood. The RIGHT SIDE shows Ron Olson's production made after Roger died with actors.

DDA (Noll) told me that Olson's movie had nothing to do with Patterson. I disagree.

After DeAtley had made a ton of money touring with Roger, the confession of FRANK HANSEN regarding his Iceman Hoax hit the papers. DeAtley says when he saw that he figured the thing was about played out and he made a deal with the Olson outfit to continue working with Roger so he could go back to his business.

Ron Olson did his own documentary with Roger and helped finance all sorts of things until Roger became too ill. He later edited some of their footage about Roger's hunt into the film about Robert Morgan's hunt. That's why BIGFOOT: MAN OR BEAST seems to suddenly change in the middle.

Roger's original movie was about himself and his band of cowboys being led by an Indian Tracker familiar with Bigfoot signs and an old Miner/Prospector who rode a mule and knew the path to a certain mountain in a primitive area where Bigfoot lived.

Patterson's first lawsuit came when he, Heironimus and Gimlin were chasing a cat (pretending they were after Bigfoot) with a dog and setting up camp on a local rancher's property.

After Patterson died Olson just took all those ideas and made them into a film. He made it appear to be a documentary about the search for the creature on Patterson's film. An Indian tracker called "Tekka Blackhawk" finds footprints that cannot be faked and the old Miner leads them to the mountain where they suffer an Ape Canyon type attack. Everything in it is pure Patterson right down to the classic Sas stories being told around the campfire.

The drawings of Bigfoot fighting a bear and picking up a Volkswagon are done by Patterson. The other one portraying the Roe encounter was actually done by another artist. Patterson simply stole it and used it as if he had drawn it himself giving the artist no credit at all.

The name of Olson's film is SASQUATCH: THE LEGEND OF BIGFOOT. Patterson did not get a writing credit, however. Hey, just like Hollywood isn't it?:D

Green's footage of Roger in the chaps at Bluff Creek is flipped - just as the first few frames of Patty are.

The footage of Gimlin leading a packhorse from the road down towards Bluff Creek is Gimlin. The camera pans RIGHT over and up to the "tent pole trees" just before a flash and the flipped Patty appears.

Or.... if you have a different copy (such as the A & E special "Bigfoot") you'll notice that the footage they have has the tent pole trees FLIPPED and then we see Patty (facing the correct position but a few frames further along after the flash).

All of that footage was most likely shot in the weeks or days leading up to the filming of Patty and edited by DeAtley and Patterson's editor the week before Oct. 20. The film was set, ready and waiting before they phoned anyone. Roger knew already what was on it long before Green and the guys showed up that Sunday.

Knowing Roger's movie and exploits makes reading his 1966 book all the more entertaining. In it he describes how Indian Gimlin used his tracking skills at Ape Canyon to find signs of Bigfoot before they were followed and grunted at by the beast.

He also describes how he stopped off at Bluff Creek while on his way to Hollywood in '64 and wouldn't you know it? Bigfoot tracks appear! Right in the "primitive area" that happens to be the same location he'll film Patty at some time later on. He even draws up a map for us in his 1966 book where Patty will be filmed...
 
Last edited:
Ask youself the question I think you know what I've concluded.

I keep trying to explain myself. This has nothing to do with you as a person. It's about your arguments, and not about you. They keep popping up in this thread. It's annoying. These arguments are ugly, dysfunctional, and pick their noses and eat the boogers. These arguments are worthless pieces of crap.
 
Last edited:
http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7484/2007/1600/LarryLundphoto.jpg

Here's a better look for you, Crow.

L to R: Roger Patterson, John Ballard, Jerry Merritt, Howard Heironimus, Bob Gimlin and Bob Heironimus.


That's a fine photo great color. Are there any photos of Gimlin from that time period with short hair? Is there anything that confirms a wig? He's part Native American and may have had the locks. There was a lot of that going on then. I know he was fully bearded in the late 70's or thereabouts. If the made him wear a wig he must've felt really silly. He dosen't strike me as being comfortable in costume.
 
Upon what have you based this opinion?

RayG

The rate of reportage mostly and no remains. There were millions of Bison records exist to confirm this. Mountains of bones too. There aren't a lot of Mountain Gorillas, a hasty survey could miss them. Relic populations of animals tend to be small.
 
I keep trying to explain myself. This has nothing to do with you as a person. It's about your arguments, and not about you. They keep popping up in this thread. It's annoying. These arguments are ugly, dysfunctional, and pick their noses and eat the boogers. These arguments are worthless pieces of crap.

William youhave my permission to have me banned from this forum. I appologize I didn't realize I was on private property.
 
Dfoot, this strip of frames is wonderful. These guys were in the business of making fake Bigfoot tracks. Photo 2 shows the footprint of a Bigfoot. These animals have a sole pad which destroys all plant matter beneath it. Some fool is looking down and pointing at the track instead of grabbing his rifle and scanning the surrounding area. I wouldn't want to get stepped on by one of those Biggies with broccoli inside my belly. It would probably burn a hole right through me.

I'll ask questions about your post later. One right now. How do you know the rider in that other strip of frames (image #1 & 5) is Bob Gimlin?

776647a55425688e1.jpg
 
This might be unexpected. I don't think that many "PGF believers" actually believe that the film shows a real Bigfoot. I think they are playing a game with each other and skeptics. The more I read BFF, the more this seems true to me. Maybe the really stupid ones do believe in a real sense. There are a good number of those and new ones enter the Bigfootery game with regularity. There is a tremendous amount of turnover in the players of the game. I think skeptics may be naive to think that they are dealing with people that really believe Bigfoot exists.

How would a Bigfooter begin to go about proving to anyone that they actually believe that Patty is a real Bigfoot?
 
Last edited:
Hey William --- I can answer a little of that...

I posted those images to show what Roger and Merritt were up to. The LEFT SIDE shows GIMLIN and the guys in Roger's original movie shot in May of '67 just before he got hold of Vilma Radford's cash and went to Hollywood. The RIGHT SIDE shows Ron Olson's production made after Roger died with actors.

DDA (Noll) told me that Olson's movie had nothing to do with Patterson. I disagree.

After DeAtley had made a ton of money touring with Roger, the confession of FRANK HANSEN regarding his Iceman Hoax hit the papers. DeAtley says when he saw that he figured the thing was about played out and he made a deal with the Olson outfit to continue working with Roger so he could go back to his business.

Ron Olson did his own documentary with Roger and helped finance all sorts of things until Roger became too ill. He later edited some of their footage about Roger's hunt into the film about Robert Morgan's hunt. That's why BIGFOOT: MAN OR BEAST seems to suddenly change in the middle.

Roger's original movie was about himself and his band of cowboys being led by an Indian Tracker familiar with Bigfoot signs and an old Miner/Prospector who rode a mule and knew the path to a certain mountain in a primitive area where Bigfoot lived.

Patterson's first lawsuit came when he, Heironimus and Gimlin were chasing a cat (pretending they were after Bigfoot) with a dog and setting up camp on a local rancher's property.

After Patterson died Olson just took all those ideas and made them into a film. He made it appear to be a documentary about the search for the creature on Patterson's film. An Indian tracker called "Tekka Blackhawk" finds footprints that cannot be faked and the old Miner leads them to the mountain where they suffer an Ape Canyon type attack. Everything in it is pure Patterson right down to the classic Sas stories being told around the campfire.

The drawings of Bigfoot fighting a bear and picking up a Volkswagon are done by Patterson. The other one portraying the Roe encounter was actually done by another artist. Patterson simply stole it and used it as if he had drawn it himself giving the artist no credit at all.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_776647a55425688e1.jpg[/qimg]
The name of Olson's film is SASQUATCH: THE LEGEND OF BIGFOOT. Patterson did not get a writing credit, however. Hey, just like Hollywood isn't it?:D

Green's footage of Roger in the chaps at Bluff Creek is flipped - just as the first few frames of Patty are.

The footage of Gimlin leading a packhorse from the road down towards Bluff Creek is Gimlin. The camera pans RIGHT over and up to the "tent pole trees" just before a flash and the flipped Patty appears.

Or.... if you have a different copy (such as the A & E special "Bigfoot") you'll notice that the footage they have has the tent pole trees FLIPPED and then we see Patty (facing the correct position but a few frames further along after the flash).

All of that footage was most likely shot in the weeks or days leading up to the filming of Patty and edited by DeAtley and Patterson's editor the week before Oct. 20. The film was set, ready and waiting before they phoned anyone. Roger knew already what was on it long before Green and the guys showed up that Sunday.

Knowing Roger's movie and exploits makes reading his 1966 book all the more entertaining. In it he describes how Indian Gimlin used his tracking skills at Ape Canyon to find signs of Bigfoot before they were followed and grunted at by the beast.

He also describes how he stopped off at Bluff Creek while on his way to Hollywood in '64 and wouldn't you know it? Bigfoot tracks appear! Right in the "primitive area" that happens to be the same location he'll film Patty at some time later on. He even draws up a map for us in his 1966 book where Patty will be filmed...
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_776647919def70e2e.jpg[/qimg]

Dfoot the movie The Legend Of Bigfoot, I've seen the movie I believe. I was making the rounds in the mid late 1970's. I recall it was a somewhat spooforic affair some zanny characters a few dumb songs etc. But this was in 1977 or 78 so when was the film made? Patterson was long dead by the time I saw it. Now it the film strip there a rider with black hair and a beard. Do you know who he is? I ask because I have a hard time imagining how they would have gotten Gimlin to wear a wig. But there's a clip of Gimlin from the late 70's that shows him with a full beard. Looks more like the guy with beard than the guy with the wig.

Lastly the drawing of the Roe creature was done by his daughter as he described the details. Notice its a way less fierce and savage rendition that the things Patterson did himself.
 
Last edited:
LTC8K6 wrote:



Applying a little common sense to the matter of when the film was actually shot......it would have been absolutely idiotic of Roger to shoot the film weeks ahead of when he claimed to have shot it....because the foliage in the film wouldn't have matched the foliage that was present when the film was first being viewed....only days after the 20th.

If Roger went through all the trouble he did, creating his masterpiece....which apparantly included mechanically-controlled fingers....

[qimg]http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w28/SweatyYeti/handmove1.gif[/qimg]

....why would he then risk having it easily exposed by a background which would have been obviously out-of-place, for the date claimed?

Been explained upthread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom