Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

Status
Not open for further replies.
No one is asking you to apply different thinking at all. However, if ten years down the line there's 60 supposed sightings of the IBW, many contradictory, across the entire southeast U.S., and still no physical evidence, I'll be saying the SAME thing about it that I am now about Bigfoot. That even the search is a waste of time and money. The fact that you can't seem to seperate looking for a creature that we knew once existed and looking for a myth, and can't seperate the difference between 5 years and 40 years, and can't seperate the difference between a small bird and a large bipedal primate, says more than enough about your biases. I don't believe you're capable of understanding the arguments made against you; certainly posts such as the one I'm responding to ignore the points, and amount to (when boiled down) nothing more than you screaming "Is Not!".

I have no problem seperating the two, and I said as much. But, you seem to forget - science needs physical proof. You keep taking my comments wrong, I wish you would read more and freak out less, because its getting very annoying.

If science demands physical proof for one species, then it should require it for both. Right now, there is no physical evidence for the Ivory Billed Woodpeckers existance. Yes, there is this footage - to that I say "So, show me real evidence". I apply that same mentality to my research, my job and any other issue where someone is trying to convince me of something --- show me.

I cut no one slack in this regard. I am glad they are out looking for the Ivory Billed Woodpecker, if its out there, it deserves the chance to survive and have its numbers increase. But, dont expect me to think differently just because it existed once. The same rules should absolutely apply, and they do - which is exactly why they are out looking for the IBW.

I am sorry you keep taking my comments so harshly, but really - I am allowed to think anyway I want. I would think you would applaud me for having such a tough stance on proof.

Geesh, cant win for losing with this crowd. LMAO :)
 
No, Melissa.

You can't win for lack of reading and understanding.

Proof, at this point, isn't even the issue. And no one is saying you shouldn't be waiting for physical evidence. And no one is saying that we should accept that the IBW exists based on the scant evidence so far.

What we are saying is that you don't seem to be able to grasp the probabilities. Bigfoot has been looked for and researched for over 40 years. What do we have? Absolutely nothing. Zero. No evidence at all that can be called anything better than weak circumstancial. The chances of Bigfoot being a real creature are less than the chances of me Winning the lottery while doing surgery during a space walk. Researching it, at this point, is a waste of time and money. If Bigfoot existed, there would be evidence by this time, no matter how shy he was.

And yes, you are allowed to think however you want. That doesn't mean you're correct.

My entire argument hasn't been so much about the existence of Bigfoot or the IBW, but about being able to realistically and reasonbly evalutate probabilities. That, and your obvious inability to recognize and appreciate the differences between legitimate research, such as the current work being done to try and find the IBW, and farciacal con games, such as Bigfoot research. I was clarifying why Bigfoot research is not science, and why the compariosn to the IBW research is a slap in the face to the real scientists trying to find that animal.

Of course, you keep wanting to go back and claim that we're trying to say the IBW exists, even though we've specifically stated, several times, that no one is claiming that.

I'm revising my opinion. Decietful and ignorant.
 
I cut no one slack in this regard. I am glad they are out looking for the Ivory Billed Woodpecker, if its out there, it deserves the chance to survive and have its numbers increase. But, dont expect me to think differently just because it existed once. The same rules should absolutely apply, and they do - which is exactly why they are out looking for the IBW.

Which is why you accept claims of a "mid-tarsal break" in a creature you won't believe exists without physical proof, right?

:rolleyes:
 
It does. It requires it for all of them. Otherwise, they would accept that video as proof that the IBW is still around.

Thats what I said. Am I typing in english? Do I need to draw pictures or something? Here is the quote:

Melissa said:
I cut no one slack in this regard. I am glad they are out looking for the Ivory Billed Woodpecker, if its out there, it deserves the chance to survive and have its numbers increase. But, dont expect me to think differently just because it existed once. The same rules should absolutely apply, and they do - which is exactly why they are out looking for the IBW.

Huntsman said:
Which is why you accept claims of a "mid-tarsal break" in a creature you won't believe exists without physical proof, right?

Talk about not reading - you should really take your own advice. Point out where I said I accepted claims of the midtarsal break. Dont go into another one of your poor me rants - point out the quote. What I said, is the Midtarsal break is not made up - it has a basis for a theory. But, I did not say I completely agreed with anything about the Midtarsal Break in reference to Bigfoot.

Dont get pissy with me because someone generalized a statement and had to regroup.

Take your own advice and read before typing. The more you type, the more your opinion of me just doesnt matter :) Thank you.

Oh by the way - you are the last person on this website who should be discussing ignorance. You have proven yours time and time again. The last post is just the most laughable. :)
 
Last edited:
Talk about not reading - you should really take your own advice. Point out where I said I accepted claims of the midtarsal break. Dont go into another one of your poor me rants - point out the quote. What I said, is the Midtarsal break is not made up - it has a basis for a theory. But, I did not say I completely agreed with anything about the Midtarsal Break in reference to Bigfoot.

Dont get pissy with me because someone generalized a statement and had to regroup.

Take your own advice and read before typing. The more you type, the more your opinion of me just doesnt matter :) Thank you.

So, it's not made up to assign a characteristic mid-tarsal break to a non-existant animal?

So, if I claimed Bigfoots could fly, that's not made up because there are flying animals, right?

You don't get pissy with us because you can't understand an arugment in context, and would rather attack strawmen. I can only assume you do it intentionally; I refuse to believe anyone capable of typing could be so lacking in thinking ability. And that's what gets me "pissy", as you say.

Now, do you have anything valid to say in defense of Bigfoot "research" or belief? Any reason we should still be spending time and money running around the woods looking for the boogeyman?
 
Huntsman said:
Now, do you have anything valid to say in defense of Bigfoot "research" or belief? Any reason we should still be spending time and money running around the woods looking for the boogeyman

We? Are you a researcher? If not, how does my spending money and my time matter to you? Do we need your permission? If you dont want to be involved, by all means - keep your self out of the woods. Doesnt matter to me - and the Nielsen ratings will thank you :) I really dont care what you do.

I also do not need to justify what I do in my free time - because Its my time to waiste and my money. But, thanks for your concern.

P.S. I have already explained a hundred times why I am involved and will remain involved. If you havent read those posts - go back and find them, they have been within the last couple weeks.
 
Last edited:
What I said, is the Midtarsal break is not made up

The midtarsal break in question is indeed made up.

Attempts to dodge the issue are not going to work. Attempts to claim MTB's in general were the topic are also not going to work.

Melissa clearly knew what was meant.
 
LTC if your not going to read my replies, then I have no reason to continue this discussion. I am tired of you not reading what I am saying and simply making up comments to suit your side of the discussion.

Learn how to have a conversation, then maybe one day we can try this again, I dont have time for this.
 
The default position is that bigfoot as it is variously described does not exist. This is the normal and correct position to adopt. Any other position is a fringe belief.

So must I start from the position that bigfoot does not exist?

Any other position is a fringe belief?

Since I disagree with both these assertions, please elaborate sufficiently to convince me otherwise.

RayG
 
Once again Correa Neto, you bring up valid arguments and ones I can not deny are an issue. But, are you saying we should always find tracks with a midtarsal break? I would have to disagree, as I believe it would depend on the soil, amount of organic matter (leaves etc) and the moisture content of that soil. I am not disputing the midtarsal break is at issue - but I am saying it is something worth considering if this is in fact a feature found within primates.
Nope. I am just saying I think his conclusions regarding this issue are at least debatable for the reasons I presented.

How many footprints would show the break (assuming the animals are real and have this feature)? I don't know, but I suppose not all of them. Of course it would depend on a number of variables, some related to the substract and some depending on the creature itself. But I would expect to see registers of folds in the skin where the "break" is, even if the foot itself was kept rigid when it impacted or stood over the soil. The smooth surfaces seen on some casts (even in those with alleged dermals) are indications, at least for me, that's something is wrong with Meldrum's interpretation.

I dont think anyone knows with 100% accuracy just how far (or if) Gigantopithecus may have migrated. Could this animal have adapted to the climate? I see many animals that live in various climates doing very well because of adaptation. This does change things like size of that animal, take for instance Deer - they are here in Texas and doing well, as well as the Northern States, their size is smaller in Texas but I would think thats an adaptation to climate and food supplies. I could be wrong, Im not a wildlife biologist. So, I really dont think its a big stretch to think IF Giganto moved in a migration it may have "downsized" to fit the environment. That is of course - IF..

But, there are scientists looking into whether Giganto was also in Thailand, India and possibly other locations.

Could these giant apes have lived outside their known range and evolved? Well, they could... But they also could not... I'd rather stick to what we know and not be too bold when it comes to speculations. Yes, knoweledge is always subject to change.

People may be looking and who knows, eventually find bones of Gigantopithecus in Thailand and India, but their climate and vegetation are very different from North America. Findings in Northern China would certainly be a better support.

Its true that some animals are quite widespread. The many species of deer and wolves come to mind. But species say, of wolves from Europe, Asia and North America have similar diets and their bodies are not very different. When it comes to bigfoot/Gigantopithecus, we would have to change (according to our current knoweledge status) locomotion, body shape and diet... Such a change is possible? But what if Gigantopithecus we bipedal? Given the evidences we have so far I think its too much of a stretch. But again, I may be wrong. And when I look in to the various descriptions and renderings of bigfeet...

Im not saying that Gigantopithecus is in fact what we now call bigfoot, but again the precedent is there for a large ape capable of reaching the size of a bigfoot. Just something worth looking into.

I do enjoy our discussions Correa Neto - thank you.
OK, we do have an ape about the size. If it weren't interesting and worth looking in to, we would not be discussing it here!
 
But, you seem to forget - science needs physical proof...

If science demands physical proof for one species, then it should require it for both. Right now, there is no physical evidence for the Ivory Billed Woodpeckers existance.

Regardless of whether it's extinct now, science had sufficient physical proof to identify and classify the Ivory Billed Woodpecker -- Species: Campephilus principalis; Kingdom: Animalia; Phylum: Chordata; Class: Aves; Order: Piciformes; Family: Picidae; Genus: Campephilus. There has not been sufficient physical proof presented for science to identify and classify bigfoot, and that's one of the main reasons analogies between the IBW and bigfoot fall flat.

RayG
 
LTC8K6 said:
Including the various descriptions, yes, I would say that's the case.

Ah, that makes more sense, my lack of comprehension this morning caused me to jump to hasty conclusions.

Do we also start from the position that bigfoot, the one that supposedly inhabits the PNW, does/can not exist?

If I don't think it's impossible, does that make me a fringe believer? (even though I don't believe)

RayG
 
I understand why you say that RayG - as the Ivory Billed Woodpecker was once known to exist, granted that is a given. But, it has been listed as extinct - so I think the same rules should apply and in fact they do. The video was enough to get Cornell back out into the field, but not enough to say that without a doubt the IBW is now out of extinction.

Im glad they are not holding a double standard.
 
RayG said:
If I don't think it's impossible, does that make me a fringe believer? (even though I don't believe)

Well I am guessing it would. As I do not "believe" anything, and keep saying that - but because I entertain the possibility I am being told I am fringe. LMAO.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom