Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

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In certain respects Roger Patterson cannot be called a liar a thief or even a cheat until after the PGF is created. Are there verifable reports of Patterson lying, and cheating prior to his fame. His public life doesn't begin until then and the only things he is known to have cheated is Bob Gimlin out of whatever money Gimlin was promised. But Roger Patterson was another kind of cheat he was cheating death, remember he was in remission with cancer which may explain why he wasn't just another workaday joe. Seems most of his cohorts were laborers and labor and illness are not a sustainable mix. Now while we're on the subject of things that may or may not be visable in PGF do you see the glint off of Bob H's false eye during the glance back? If you can then that left hand shoudn't be much of a mystery.
 
Crowlogic said:
It does surprise me that not much has been said about the sheer size of that hand.
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Welcome to JREF, Crowlogic. We have discussed this hand (and the other one) on this forum.

I've always been impressed with the sheer size of the hands on this gorilla.

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Crowlogic said:
In certain respects Roger Patterson cannot be called a liar a thief or even a cheat until after the PGF is created. Are there verifable reports of Patterson lying, and cheating prior to his fame. ..
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You really need to read the book ...

The film was the climax of his scamming career....

If you can't find it in the library, I'll loan you my copy ..

PM me if you want to borrow it...
 
I was under the impression that MK Davis' latest analysis puts into Patty's left hand a "digging stick"...

When is Davis going to favor the world with his grand unified theory of Patty as "Digger Indian"? Or was his initial trial balloon deflated so badly by the Patty faithful that he has abandoned that line of thought?

You know of course, that WHITE Sasquatches are known as "Wigger Indians"...

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That gorillia still looks like a scene from the old movie Murders In The Rouge Morgue. Yes seems like big hands on that one. Opposable thumb? PGF that hand looks to me like an opposable thumb but I can't say whether a Gorillia suite intended to be worn by a man would incorporate simply a glove like human shapped furred hand or whether it would incorporate a truly Gorillia hand with correct thumb placement. I'd say an expensive suite would have correct hand and cheap suite have simple furred glove. A simple furred glove would not be in the proportions as the PGF hand. I can almost see using a modified baseball mit in that there is a very full fleshy aspect to the PGF hand. Of course that its a real flesh and blood hand would negate the need for baseball mits, gorillia suite hands and whatnot.

But while speaking of gorillia suites has anyone ever come up with a dollar figure Patterson would have payed for the supposed Morris gorillia suite? It is mt understanding that the Morris suite was/is the Rolls Royce of gorillia suites and can be expected to have been pricey.
 
Crowlogic said:
PGF that hand looks to me like an opposable thumb but I can't say whether a Gorillia suite intended to be worn by a man would incorporate simply a glove like human shapped furred hand or whether it would incorporate a truly Gorillia hand with correct thumb placement.
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Welcome to the board, Crowlogic. You know, if you put any stock in Meldrum's observations, you'd keep in mind his arguments that sasquatches do not have opposable thumbs. As for gorilla suits, a good place to start here would be to use the search function. There's nothing in the film that can not be explained by a man in a suit nor is there anything that demands exorbitant cost.
 
Crowlogic said:
That gorillia still looks like a scene from the old movie Murders In The Rouge Morgue. Yes seems like big hands on that one. Opposable thumb? PGF that hand looks to me like an opposable thumb but I can't say whether a Gorillia suite intended to be worn by a man would incorporate simply a glove like human shapped furred hand or whether it would incorporate a truly Gorillia hand with correct thumb placement. I'd say an expensive suite would have correct hand and cheap suite have simple furred glove. A simple furred glove would not be in the proportions as the PGF hand. I can almost see using a modified baseball mit in that there is a very full fleshy aspect to the PGF hand. Of course that its a real flesh and blood hand would negate the need for baseball mits, gorillia suite hands and whatnot.

But while speaking of gorillia suites has anyone ever come up with a dollar figure Patterson would have payed for the supposed Morris gorillia suite? It is mt understanding that the Morris suite was/is the Rolls Royce of gorillia suites and can be expected to have been pricey.
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I am sorry, but the photo taken from the film above has a good, a very good resolution. Your PGF photo no matter how much your crop/sharpen them has a far worst resolution. What you take as a hand with opposite thumb, is at best a blob. On the photo of the film (look right hand) you clearly see an opposite thumb. And that is not even counting the argument from this Mr Meldrum saying that Bigfoot don't have opposite thumb.
 
Logic,


Like I said, if you want to call that a hand, go for it. As far as me watching the film and seeing things that simply aren't there, those day's are gone, I can no longer lie to myself with a straight face. It doesn't much matter if I run the frames at 12, 14.985, 24 or 29.070 fps, nor does it matter if I resize every frame manually for whatever speed, all I get is maybe, maybe not, could be, not likely, I can't tell.

So when Diogenes states, "We really can't tell if that's the hand or if the subject is carrying a tambourine..." I have to reply, that he is correct. But when you state "for all we know the trees are paper mache, the soil is flower and the rocks are green cheese." I have to disagree because many people touched those trees, walked that soil and threw those rocks. Understand the difference?

BTW, specifically, what do mean by this, "there is a very full fleshy aspect to the PGF hand" ?


Oh ya, welcome.


m
 
mangler said:
Kitakaze,

I checked this thread, "Anyone seen this DTK/Luminous thread on the MABRC?:"
Big mystery! Too funny! Took maybe five minutes to find four frames from two separate clips.

Typical bigfoot tracks. Where'd they go??????
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Nice one, Mang. Too funny indeed. Yes, WOW! Good work! Just keep congratulating yourselves, guys. That's what your quest to be taken seriously needs, some more pareidolia joyfun. I like it better when they find bling on Patty.
 
Diogenes said:
You really need to read the book ...

The film was the climax of his scamming career....

If you can't find it in the library, I'll loan you my copy ..

PM me if you want to borrow it...
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Diogenes - just out of curiosity, did you finally read "Sasquatch Legend Meets Science"?

Just asking, don't get angry.
 
Lets suppose BH was not the "star" of PGF.

Is this an evidence that Patty was not a bloke in a suit?

I think not.

The stories told by P, G have holes, its no surprise BH's tale would also have. Some parts are irreconcilable. Personally, I don't think any of them is reliable. PGF's "pedigree" is not exactly very good, but this is just my personal opinion.

Skepticals and proponents may try to build sequences of events that could reconciliate some if not most parts of the tales in order to match their own positions. But I am skeptical (pun intended) that these suppositions will actually be of great help. It will be a nice bar talk at the best.

Examinating Patty, I think, is a better path. And we've been through it in quite a lot of detail, not only at this but also at the other bigfoot threads, where the PGF always managed to slip into. So far, my position is that a 1960 gorilla suit is a good match for Patty and that the footage is hoax.

And there are many issues with Patty itself. For example, if it is a real bigfoot, then why its different from what many witnesses describe?
 
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Crowlogic said:
...

But while speaking of gorillia suites has anyone ever come up with a dollar figure Patterson would have payed for the supposed Morris gorillia suite? It is mt understanding that the Morris suite was/is the Rolls Royce of gorillia suites and can be expected to have been pricey.
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It's in the book .

Patterson managed to come up with money when he needed it. He stole $700 ( under the pretense of a loan ) from Velma Radford, shortly before the film showed up.
In 1967, $700 would have bought about what $4,000 would today ..

The Morris suit story is a red herring.. Patterson may have bought a suit from Morris, however Patty is clearly not an unmodified ( beyond recognition ) Morris suit ..

Long's focus on the Morris suit, and any conclusions based on it, is a major flaw in the book ..
 
Diogenes was all over this earlier. There's a tendency for footers to attack the problems with BH's account, while ignoring the problems with Patterson and Gimlin's account of the creation of the film (and other accounts from the time of the film's early showings, such as Napier saying that Patty's feet were not visible in the PGF).
 
Aepervius said:
I am sorry, but the photo taken from the film above has a good, a very good resolution. Your PGF photo no matter how much your crop/sharpen them has a far worst resolution. What you take as a hand with opposite thumb, is at best a blob. On the photo of the film (look right hand) you clearly see an opposite thumb. And that is not even counting the argument from this Mr Meldrum saying that Bigfoot don't have opposite thumb.
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I'm not at all questioning the resoloution of the movie still of that gorillia suite,where did anyone get the idea that I was? My saying that it looks like it came from a certain old movie means exactly that and nothing more. Had the still come from say 2001 A Space Odyssey I would have remarked that I looks like that specific film. Yes it demonstrates very very well a gorillia suite of some manufacture. Given that it was made in 1930's or 1940's its doing it job as intended for that film.

As for ANYONE declaring that Sasquatch has an opposable thumb or not is silly. We do not have a verifiable Sasquatch hand to make that call. We do have a possible Sasquatch hand in PGF and that is the hand I'm interested in.

Again I'll ask has anyone seen the reflection off BH's glass eye as he turns to look back at Roger Patterson in frame 352? Claiming to be able to see a detail like that (and there are those who do) streches the PGF resoloution question beyond the breaking point IMO. Yet it goes to show that there is a heap of conjured speculation on both sides of the PGF fence.

Honestly I really tried to see that left hand as Revere frying pan that poor ol' BH just plum forgot to let go of after he rustled up some grub prior to the filming. He was after all back in 1967 a burly young man with no doubt had the appetite of entire Seattle Mariners. Seriously though I don't claim to have a better eye to see the things that impress me.

As for relying any one given book to confirm or deny a truth I remind myself of a book titled Somebody Else Is On The Moon. Said book was written in the 1970's and was replete professional testimony and lots of photos showing odd and huge supposedly artificial (read alien) structures and operatons going on there. The authour claimed to have worked for NASA, (maybe as a janitor?).

I remind myself that we live in a time where conspiracy theroies are a very marketable commodity. Bob Gimlin more than onyone else stands the most to gain by exposing the hoax and pride it is said is what keeps him silent about it? Had the 2 Bobs come down from the mountain waving a white flag of surrender screaming hoax then the game is up even now but neither side in this debate has an airtight case.
 
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Concerning Patterson customizing a 1967 Morris gorilla suit to look like a Bigfoot: Previously in this forum I made the example of comparing a Hot Rod "Deuce Coupe" to the factory-made 1932 Ford that it starts out as. I'll use pictures of Roadsters here instead of Coupes. I don't know if this is helpful to anyone, but it's just meant to show what can be done when the mind gets set on customization of an "everyday thing". This is not meant to prove that RP actually did start out with a Morris gorilla costume.

Factory stock 1932 Ford "Model B" Roadster


Same car which is customized, and then it gets called a "Deuce", "Deuce Roadster", "Deuce Rod", etc. The name change after the completed customization is meaningful and is related to the Patterson suit. It sounds just as strange to continue calling this a 1932 Ford Model B as it would be to call Patterson's Bigfoot suit a Morris gorilla costume (assuming he did customize one).
 
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Diogenes said:
How so ?

If Gimlin came out, it would just make BH more the hero ..

Gimlin would be disenfranchised by the Bigfoot crowd..

No more speaking engagements ..
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I dunno...if Gimlin came out, I'd think he'd get far more speaking engagements in the "here is how we hoaxed it and kept it a secret for so long" arena then the "Bigfooter" one.

That aside, there would no doubt be a movie about the hoax, book, speaking tour, etc.
 
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